Stronglifts squat not progressing. Please help!

lilawolf
lilawolf Posts: 1,690 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I have been progressing nicely on all of my lifts except squats, and I don't know why. I've watched tons of videos and had my husband check my form against them, read tips, etc and still no luck. I am pretty confident in my form, both because my hubby can watch from all sides, and also because the soreness is spread pretty evenly around the front and rear of my upper legs and my butt. My knees and back do not hurt at all. When I get fatigued, one or both knees try to come in or I end up leaning too far forward. Learning to tense my core, and pushing my knees out during the lift helped but not much.

Stats
Height: 5'9
Weight: 150lbs
Calories: 1700-2200 averaging 1900ish or ~250cals under maintenance with the occasional week at maintenance
Macros: 30p/32c/38f ish (never under 110g of protein in a day = lbm and usually higher)

Weights: these are all weights that I have managed to hit 5x5. Attempting even higher prs over the next couple days.
Squat: 85 (I failed at 95 twice, then succeeded at 85)
Bench: 85
Row: 80
OHP: 60
Deadlift: 145

The fact that I can bench the same amount that I can squat is so backwards, particularly for a female. Anyone else have this happen to them? Someone advised me to try front squats instead, but Mehdi (SL guy) says that it works different muscles and is not a satisfactory substitution. Help!
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Replies

  • DragonSquatter
    DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
    My guess would be that there's something off with your form. You may be leaning too far forward in the hole and thereby relying more on your lower back (a much weaker muscle group) than your legs to push you out of the hole. I have had this problem for a long time because of my leverages (femur is longer than my entire torso).

    Have you tried squatting with your heels on plates? What about a box squat?
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    I would be curious to know where you are failing in your squats. Are you falling backwards/forwards? Shoulders slumping forward? Lower back rounding? Or perfect form and you're just getting stuck at the bottom for example?

    I'd be curious to see vids as well if you can provide them. It does seem strange that you can bench what you can squat, definitely seems like something is awry. If your form ends up perfect I'd probably just suggest moving down to 3x5 as recommended in the SL program after a few failures. I went to 3x5 on my own almost immediately on my squats, 5x5 three times a week with three weight increases was way, wayyy too much for me, personally. I stalled out with 5x5 around 200 but then got to 235 with 3x5 for example.
  • 1ConcreteGirl
    1ConcreteGirl Posts: 3,677 Member
    This is me, too. I bench 100 and squat 115.

    Tagging to watch this.
  • DragonSquatter
    DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
    If your form ends up perfect I'd probably just suggest moving down to 3x5 as recommended in the SL program after a few failures. I went to 3x5 on my own almost immediately on my squats, 5x5 three times a week with three weight increases was way, wayyy too much for me, personally. I stalled out with 5x5 around 200 but then got to 235 with 3x5 for example.

    ^ Agree with this also. 5x5 working sets is really hard especially if you're on a deficit.
  • xxDearyen
    xxDearyen Posts: 20
    I hear that taller individuals have more difficulty with squats than shorter individuals; that may play a factor?
  • Iron_Duchess
    Iron_Duchess Posts: 429 Member
    I had the same problem until I rechecked my form and applied a few suggestions that one of my friends here gave me after seeing a video of my squats. 1) Hip hinge 2) Look up above the mirror instead of straight or to the floor. 3) Change shoes. 4) Remain tight (I still struggle with this one.) I am proud to inform that after making the changes my squats went from failing at 65lbs to being able to complete 95lbs in about a month. Maybe is not that great for most but it is for me. I’m including some links with the information that I used to make my changes. I hope it helps and good luck.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hips-dont-lie-3-drills-to-nail-hip-hinge.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao
  • DragonSquatter
    DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
    I hear that taller individuals have more difficulty with squats than shorter individuals; that may play a factor?

    Generally it's not the height, but the femur to torso length ratio. Longer femur and shorter torso means that to not fall on your *kitten*, you have to bend over a lot further at the bottom of the squat than someone with the opposite dimensions. This requires more lower back strength to come up than if the individual were to remain upright for most of the lift.
  • lilawolf
    lilawolf Posts: 1,690 Member
    I don't think that I'm leaning too far forward. I look just like the videos. I'll take a look at the box squats. Any particular video/explanation that you recommend? Otherwise I will just do a google search.

    I come down just fine, then it will feel like I can't get back up. The harder I try, the worse my form gets. One or both knees will start coming in so I will focus on pushing them out, my torso will start leaning farther and farther forward so I try to focus on holding it back (collar bones in line with knees in line with toes)... Once I make it up a couple of inches, I can stand up straight just fine. That first couple of inches from parallel are murder.

    I'll consider taking a video. Anyone think that putting small plates under my heals would help?
  • DragonSquatter
    DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
    I'll consider taking a video.

    I think this is the best idea right now. Do a video from the side and post it so you can get an accurate feedback of your form. You may be leaning forward or backward more than you realize.
  • lilawolf
    lilawolf Posts: 1,690 Member
    I'm comfortable with the hip hinge, and I look at the mirror. Learning to keep tight helped, and I still need to work on it. I am in regular running/athletic shoes though. Could that really be it? What kind of shoes do you (everyone) wear when you lift?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    Take a lighter load and practice "exploding" out of the squat. Once you get use to the actual "sequence" of doing it, then load up again.

    As mentioned for some it may be a structural thing too. Longer limbs make the squat tougher due to leverage.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • mdizzle99
    mdizzle99 Posts: 169 Member
    So if I understand correctly, you are eating at a deficit and not seeing your squat numbers go up? This is generally expected. If new to lifting you will generally see lifts go up as your muscles/mind become more efficient at them, but at some point this will stall and you will only gain strength as you gain muscle which will not happen on a cut.
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    Like others have said make sure your form is GTG. There are few videos that will help including one from Mark Rippetoe. Are you doing high bar or low bar squats or both? Are you driving with your heals and generating power from your hips? The power comes from the hip drive. In addition reset your squat weight. Reduce it by 10-20% work on your form and build up again.
  • 1ConcreteGirl
    1ConcreteGirl Posts: 3,677 Member
    I'm comfortable with the hip hinge, and I look at the mirror. Learning to keep tight helped, and I still need to work on it. I am in regular running/athletic shoes though. Could that really be it? What kind of shoes do you (everyone) wear when you lift?

    Shoes are a big deal when lifting, especially squatting. I lift in socks because I don't have chucks, but you really need shoes with a firm sole (NO give in the sole, which running shoes are all about).

    ETA: no shoes is better than squishy shoes.
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
    A video of you squatting would be helpful.

    The usual causes of squat failure is poor form, weak lower back/glutes, and a weak upper back.

    While SL is a great program, I believe that you need to add in other movements to supplement it. For Workout A, I suggest adding in leg presses, barbell shrugs, and stiff-legged deadlifts. For Workout B, I suggest adding in lower back hyperextensions.
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
    I'm comfortable with the hip hinge, and I look at the mirror. Learning to keep tight helped, and I still need to work on it. I am in regular running/athletic shoes though. Could that really be it? What kind of shoes do you (everyone) wear when you lift?

    Stop looking in the mirror. I know it is tempting, but don't.
  • mountaingirl2207
    mountaingirl2207 Posts: 181
    Is the bar low enough on your back? I was having trouble until I found the 'notch' and immediately went up 20 lbs. Also, try doing some bar squats before you load weight so that you have the feel of great form. Do you separate the floor with your feet?
  • LoraF83
    LoraF83 Posts: 15,694 Member
    I'm comfortable with the hip hinge, and I look at the mirror. Learning to keep tight helped, and I still need to work on it. I am in regular running/athletic shoes though. Could that really be it? What kind of shoes do you (everyone) wear when you lift?

    I wear Chuck Taylor's for squatting and deadlifting. Squat shoes aren't in the budget right now, but I got a pair of Chucks for $25.

    And I agree that video would be helpful.
  • lilawolf
    lilawolf Posts: 1,690 Member
    So if I understand correctly, you are eating at a deficit and not seeing your squat numbers go up? This is generally expected. If new to lifting you will generally see lifts go up as your muscles/mind become more efficient at them, but at some point this will stall and you will only gain strength as you gain muscle which will not happen on a cut.

    I am eating at a very mild deficit with frequent days/weeks at or even a touch above maintenance. I have gained weight with lifting not lost it. I am also new to lifting (not quite 3 months), and my other lifts are still progressing well. If I didn't have enough nutrition to build muscle wouldn't I stall on ALL of my lifts?
  • da_bears10089
    da_bears10089 Posts: 1,791 Member
    i've made a few adjustments to my squat to go along with this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

    also i wear a pair of chucks. I know vibrams are another highly recommended shoe if you can't go barefoot, but i didn't want to fork out 100 bucks for a pair of lifting shoes. 25 dollar chucks it is
  • astronomicals
    astronomicals Posts: 1,537 Member
    So if I understand correctly, you are eating at a deficit and not seeing your squat numbers go up? This is generally expected. If new to lifting you will generally see lifts go up as your muscles/mind become more efficient at them, but at some point this will stall and you will only gain strength as you gain muscle which will not happen on a cut.

    this^^^

    "efficiency"= neural adaption

    furthermore, I'd wager that you're doing a lot of cardio which is impeding your recovery and causing more catabolism than MPS in your legs... weight training destroys muscle... if you dont allow the anabolic stimulus to cause MPS, lifting can be counterproductive... its quite simple... if the anabolic stimulus of training doesnt outweigh the catabolic response, than youll get weaker...
  • Loftearmen
    Loftearmen Posts: 380
    There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.
  • astronomicals
    astronomicals Posts: 1,537 Member
    There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

    yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery
  • lilawolf
    lilawolf Posts: 1,690 Member
    This is in reply to several of you.

    I think that I will lower the weights just a bit, play around with how wide my stance is, where the bar sits (I just press my shoulder blades together and set the bar on the "shelf"), plates under my heels, and no shoes to see if something feels better.

    My husband and I are the same height, but I have much longer legs and a shorter torso. As several people mentioned, I think the leverage may be part of my struggle.

    Exploding up may help (if only mentally). I usually think slow and controlled, but getting going is my problem, so the "explosion" may help.

    If none of this works, I will suck it up and have my husband take a video.
  • astronomicals
    astronomicals Posts: 1,537 Member
    why would u put plates under your heels? Who gave you that idea?

    do not put plates under your heels... you should be driving through your heels, not the ball of your foot... if your driving through the ball of your foot the bar path is probably "forward" and thats why your lift is failing.. your dont wear running shoes BECAUSE they have elevated cushioned heels...make him take a side on video and look at the actual bar path..
  • dare2love81
    dare2love81 Posts: 928 Member
    I'm comfortable with the hip hinge, and I look at the mirror. Learning to keep tight helped, and I still need to work on it. I am in regular running/athletic shoes though. Could that really be it? What kind of shoes do you (everyone) wear when you lift?

    Shoes are a big deal when lifting, especially squatting. I lift in socks because I don't have chucks, but you really need shoes with a firm sole (NO give in the sole, which running shoes are all about).

    ETA: no shoes is better than squishy shoes.

    Yep, I do all my lifts either in New Balance Minimus or Innov8's. I was previously doing them in my Brooks running shoes and found that I couldn't really tell if I was pressing through my heels properly because I couldn't feel the floor. (too much cushion in the shoe sole.)

    Also, FWIW, my bench PR is 135, which is only 10 pounds lighter than my squat PR WITH PROPER FORM. My squat PR with *kitten* form is much higher, but as I said, my form is horrible.
  • Fozzi43
    Fozzi43 Posts: 2,984 Member
    Bumpity bump
  • Loftearmen
    Loftearmen Posts: 380
    There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

    yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery

    Cardio doesn't pose much of a neurological demand on the body. The lack of recovery due to excessive cardiovascular exercise is systemic so her other lifts would suffer proportionally. So again, there's no reason that her squat should be the same as her bench.
  • SpazQ
    SpazQ Posts: 104
    so now we have to have shoes just for lifting?

    I have absolutely zero problems squatting in my running shoes and using my heels to drive.
  • DragonSquatter
    DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
    so now we have to have shoes just for lifting?

    I have absolutely zero problems squatting in my running shoes and using my heels to drive.

    Lifting shoes and putting heels on plates are for people who may lack flexibility in the ankles. You still drive through the heels coming up, but it reduces the range of motion required by the ankle at the bottom of the lift.

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