Sucrose v fructose

twinketta
twinketta Posts: 2,130 Member
in Food and Nutrition
When I first started MFP a couple of years back I was not really a big fruit eater and I ate limited veg. I was mainly eating high protein from meat

Around 2 or 3 months ago, I just suddenly went off eating meat and have not eaten any since. Although I still cook it for my hubby and have no problem with any one else eating it.

So my questions are now I have started adding fruit to my diet along with the veggies I am going over on my sugar although it is fructose I am not eating sucrose based foods.

So is the fructose from 3 or 4 pieces of fruit OK in your opinion?

Is it just sucrose based foods that we should be watching out for?

Replies

  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    Sucrose splits into Glucose + Fructose in acid conditions or with enzymes in your digestive system, so it isn't really a simple A or B question. Also fruits have glucose, fructose and sucrose in varying proportions.

    The thing fruit has in its favour (apart from massive PR budgets and tasting good) is the restricted rate at which you can eat it and the dilute form the sugar comes in.

    Chemically, it's essentially the same stuff.

    So if you have concerns about sucrose they would also apply to eating an orange.
  • twinketta
    twinketta Posts: 2,130 Member
    But is it not more healthy to eat fruit and take in the fructose and glucose rather than artificially sweetened foods with sucrose and glucose?

    I really do not want to go back a level with my eating just because I have introduced fruit to my diet
  • Marcillene
    Marcillene Posts: 484 Member
    I am eager to hear responses on this as well. i have been cutting meat out starting a few days ago... not necessarily to become a strict vegetarian, i would just prefer to not eat meat, until i get terribly tired of eating just vegetable based things. LOL.

    But definitally interesting to hear on the topic...
  • daltem
    daltem Posts: 138 Member
    " The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in significant amounts.

    When people eat a diet that is high in calories and high in fructose, the liver gets overloaded and starts turning the fructose into fat.

    Lustig and other scientists believe that excess fructose consumption may be a key driver of many of the most serious diseases of today, including: obesity, type II diabetes, heart disease and even cancer."



    "It’s important to realize that all of this does NOT apply to fruit.

    Fruits aren’t just watery bags of fructose, they are real foods with a low energy density and lots of fiber."

    " The harmful effects of fructose apply to a western diet supplying excess calories and added sugars. It does NOT apply to the natural sugars found in fruits and vegetables. Period."
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    But is it not more healthy to eat fruit and take in the fructose and glucose rather than artificially sweetened foods with sucrose and glucose?

    Probably, yes. You get some fiber and a few minerals and vitamins with fruit just like you do with veg.

    But intellectually I can't say the sucrose, fructose and glucose in an orange are different to those in sugars from cane or beet by the time they hit your blood stream.

    So if you were a follower of Dr Robert Lustig - he of the million+ youtube hits - you might want to keep an eye on both. I doubt 50g of sugars a day will cause anyone a problem, wherever they come from.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    "It’s important to realize that all of this does NOT apply to fruit. "

    Not sure who you're quoting there. Lusting said on the BBC radio "fructose, and it doesn't matter what the vehicle, it's irrelevant...." and in a radio phone-in he was caught off-guard too - www.crsociety.org/index.php?/topic/291-dr-lustig-on-fruit-fructose/

    It's good that he's intellectually robust, but bad that he feels he has to conceal his real opinions about fruit sugars on order "not to become known as the guy who came out against fruit"
  • daltem
    daltem Posts: 138 Member
    Was dumbing it down-
    I"m sure there are many articles pro and con-
    My personal belief that natural sugars found in fruit are ok- of course everything is in moderation ( and personally, if I could consistently eat in moderation, I wouldnt have weight to lose <smile>)


    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Heart_Letter/2011/September/abundance-of-fructose-not-good-for-the-liver-heart
  • tlblood
    tlblood Posts: 473 Member
    " The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in significant amounts.

    When people eat a diet that is high in calories and high in fructose, the liver gets overloaded and starts turning the fructose into fat.

    Lustig and other scientists believe that excess fructose consumption may be a key driver of many of the most serious diseases of today, including: obesity, type II diabetes, heart disease and even cancer."



    "It’s important to realize that all of this does NOT apply to fruit.

    Fruits aren’t just watery bags of fructose, they are real foods with a low energy density and lots of fiber."

    " The harmful effects of fructose apply to a western diet supplying excess calories and added sugars. It does NOT apply to the natural sugars found in fruits and vegetables. Period."

    I love how well this is written! The problem is often with foods that have added sugars and little other nutritional value. Fruits, while containing various forms of natural sugars, also contain many other nutrients that are great for you.
  • rsnyderfam
    rsnyderfam Posts: 1
    OP, Is it possible that you're associating "Sucrose" with sugary/processed foods and associating "Fructose" with fruit?

    If so, that's not the case. Think "High Fructose Corn Syrup". that's the concentrated stuff they put in sugary drinks. and it's "High Fructose"

    So Yarwell's reply is on point. Most fruits are a mixture (in varying degrees) of all three.

    My understanding is, to your body it's all sugar (whether sucrose, glucose, fructose, etc). How and where you body converts and stores it as glucose or glycogen depends somewhat on the above type of sugar it is. Fructose is mostly stored in the liver whereas sucrose can be stored more easily directly in your muscles (as glycogen).

    Whether or not you eat meat with regard to adding fruit to your diet is (pun intended) apples and oranges. Your fitness/diet/lifestyle goals would of course determine if adding fruit to your diet will set you back any...and that's not likely to be the case. So adding "some" fruit to your diet should not set you back. Going on an all-fruit diet certainly could. Or, if you're on an extremely low carb/ketogenic diet, then adding fruit could put you over your daily limit of carbs, which could also set you back. So again, it depends on your goals.
  • twinketta
    twinketta Posts: 2,130 Member
    I thought fructose and sucrose were directly absorbed through the small intestine into the blood system? But I am not sure how they would convert to fat?

    I stay within my goals with protein/carbs/fat. sodium is half or under what MFP recommends since I started eating fruit
  • LAW_714
    LAW_714 Posts: 258
    Fruit contains more than just sugar. They have nutrients and fiber (and taste good). Eat fruit. Preferably eat fruit in it's real form because that has fiber and will metabolize more slowly than straight sugar.

    That doesn't mean eat crazy amounts of sugar but a couple or a even a few servings of fruit a day is good for you.

    (I'd avoid High Fructose Corn Syrup though. THAT fructose isn't particularly good for anyone.)
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    I thought fructose and sucrose were directly absorbed through the small intestine into the blood system? But I am not sure how they would convert to fat?

    Fructose is processed directly by the liver - in a similar way to alcohol. Ditto the fructose half of sucrose. Including from fruit.

    Glucose can be used by muscles and the brain etc as well as being manipulated by the liver into glycogen or fat for storage if in excess.

    There's more fibre and nutrition (protein, minerals, vitamins) in green beans than an apple, and you can sprinkle table sugar on the beans to bring the calories and sugar content up to the same level. That's a thought experiment for you, but I know most are brainwashed so it's like discussing depression with Tom Cruise.
  • twinketta
    twinketta Posts: 2,130 Member
    OP, Is it possible that you're associating "Sucrose" with sugary/processed foods and associating "Fructose" with fruit?

    If so, that's not the case. Think "High Fructose Corn Syrup". that's the concentrated stuff they put in sugary drinks. and it's "High Fructose"

    So Yarwell's reply is on point. Most fruits are a mixture (in varying degrees) of all three.

    My understanding is, to your body it's all sugar (whether sucrose, glucose, fructose, etc). How and where you body converts and stores it as glucose or glycogen depends somewhat on the above type of sugar it is. Fructose is mostly stored in the liver whereas sucrose can be stored more easily directly in your muscles (as glycogen).

    Whether or not you eat meat with regard to adding fruit to your diet is (pun intended) apples and oranges. Your fitness/diet/lifestyle goals would of course determine if adding fruit to your diet will set you back any...and that's not likely to be the case. So adding "some" fruit to your diet should not set you back. Going on an all-fruit diet certainly could. Or, if you're on an extremely low carb/ketogenic diet, then adding fruit could put you over your daily limit of carbs, which could also set you back. So again, it depends on your goals.

    Yes I am thinking Sucrose equals sugary foods and drinks like all the processed variety. Which I have no desire for.

    My fructose fruits consist of a banana/orange/apple for breakfast I used to eat a couple of rashers of bacon with wholemeal toast and butter....my sugar was always really low at the end of the day on MFP
  • sabified
    sabified Posts: 1,035 Member
    " The liver is the only organ that can metabolize fructose in significant amounts.

    When people eat a diet that is high in calories and high in fructose, the liver gets overloaded and starts turning the fructose into fat.

    Lustig and other scientists believe that excess fructose consumption may be a key driver of many of the most serious diseases of today, including: obesity, type II diabetes, heart disease and even cancer."



    "It’s important to realize that all of this does NOT apply to fruit.

    Fruits aren’t just watery bags of fructose, they are real foods with a low energy density and lots of fiber."

    " The harmful effects of fructose apply to a western diet supplying excess calories and added sugars. It does NOT apply to the natural sugars found in fruits and vegetables. Period."

    I'm curious to know- where are these quotes from? Could we get the source please?


    Edit: Read the rest of the topic and saw that you did!!
    Thanks!
  • twinketta
    twinketta Posts: 2,130 Member
    I thought fructose and sucrose were directly absorbed through the small intestine into the blood system? But I am not sure how they would convert to fat?

    Fructose is processed directly by the liver - in a similar way to alcohol. Ditto the fructose half of sucrose. Including from fruit.

    Glucose can be used by muscles and the brain etc as well as being manipulated by the liver into glycogen or fat for storage if in excess.

    There's more fibre and nutrition (protein, minerals, vitamins) in green beans than an apple, and you can sprinkle table sugar on the beans to bring the calories and sugar content up to the same level. That's a thought experiment for you, but I know most are brainwashed so it's like discussing depression with Tom Cruise.

    So you are suggesting that I ditch the fruit and stick to the veggies?

    I really want to get this right and am happy to eat veggies, but I was thinking fruit is a good option )health wise) since I have stopped eating meat
  • LAW_714
    LAW_714 Posts: 258
    I'd say it has to do with what you're aiming for.

    The total amount of sugar that you consume matters in the big scheme of things. Most veggies have less sugar than most fruit. But sometimes you want the fruit.

    Sure green beans with sugar on them can have the same sugar load as an apple, but why would you want green beans with sugar on them? Eat green beans. They're good for you.

    If you're particularly worried about going over your allowed carbs for the day, green beans/veggies are the superior option to most fruits in that they are nutritious and have less sugar.

    If you're caving something sweet, though, you might prefer blackberries and if it's in your allowed carbs, why not?

    Sometimes it's going to boil down to preference and what might satisfy a craving (or a need for variety). Sometimes you just want a change of pace.


    (BTW -- processed foods frequently use high fructose corn syrup as sweetner because it tends to be cheaper so most sodas, are HFCS. )
  • Halbared
    Halbared Posts: 24 Member
    I thought fructose and sucrose were directly absorbed through the small intestine into the blood system? But I am not sure how they would convert to fat?

    Fructose is processed directly by the liver - in a similar way to alcohol. Ditto the fructose half of sucrose. Including from fruit.

    Glucose can be used by muscles and the brain etc as well as being manipulated by the liver into glycogen or fat for storage if in excess.

    There's more fibre and nutrition (protein, minerals, vitamins) in green beans than an apple, and you can sprinkle table sugar on the beans to bring the calories and sugar content up to the same level. That's a thought experiment for you, but I know most are brainwashed so it's like discussing depression with Tom Cruise.
    Great post. I hope those interested in losing fat and cutting down on carbs/sugar read it.
    Bananas/Grapes are high sugar fruits, eat these with care.
    Apples/Pears are medium sugar fruits, these are a little safer.
    Old world berries are low sugar fruits, and can be enjoyed as part of a low carb diet.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    So you are suggesting that I ditch the fruit and stick to the veggies?

    Not really, that's for you to decide.

    Just saying that veg often have a lot more good stuff in than fruit and a lot less sugar.

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2341/2
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1809/2

    for example.

    It's good that you're eating fruit rather than drinking juice. If your fructose intake is 50g/day or less you're probably fine as you are. But the fructose can come from anywhere as it's all the same to your liver.

    But if it fits into your calorie and macro goals and the consumption is moderate then stick with it.
  • twinketta
    twinketta Posts: 2,130 Member
    I'd say it has to do with what you're aiming for.

    The total amount of sugar that you consume matters in the big scheme of things. Most veggies have less sugar than most fruit. But sometimes you want the fruit.

    Sure green beans with sugar on them can have the same sugar load as an apple, but why would you want green beans with sugar on them? Eat green beans. They're good for you.

    If you're particularly worried about going over your allowed carbs for the day, green beans/veggies are the superior option to most fruits in that they are nutritious and have less sugar.

    If you're caving something sweet, though, you might prefer blackberries and if it's in your allowed carbs, why not?

    Sometimes it's going to boil down to preference and what might satisfy a craving (or a need for variety). Sometimes you just want a change of pace.


    (BTW -- processed foods frequently use high fructose corn syrup as sweetner because it tends to be cheaper so most sodas, are HFCS. )

    Thanks for your reply :) I am not craving anything sweet, and I am not going over on my carb intake. It mainly is just because I have stopped eating meat and am sourcing other other options for foods
    Even with my fruit eating I am staying under the carb intake. the only thing I am going over on now is sugar from the fruit.

    My sodium is half of the MFP recommended goal (not sure if that is good or bad)
  • LAW_714
    LAW_714 Posts: 258
    Personally, I use the MFP sugar number for a goal, in an effort to limit my sugar intake. However, it doesn't bother me overly much if I go over by a few (which I often do) as long as I'm *under* on my overall carbs (which I've customized to a more restrictive than MFP carb load to begin with).
  • daltem
    daltem Posts: 138 Member
    If you're not diabetic then it probably doesn't make that big of difference
  • DatMurse
    DatMurse Posts: 1,501 Member
    Was dumbing it down-
    I"m sure there are many articles pro and con-
    My personal belief that natural sugars found in fruit are ok- of course everything is in moderation ( and personally, if I could consistently eat in moderation, I wouldnt have weight to lose <smile>)


    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Heart_Letter/2011/September/abundance-of-fructose-not-good-for-the-liver-heart

    many of those results have hypercaloric diet as a precursor for fructose being bad
    Just like carbs and fats. they have to be at a hypercaloric state for it to do damage.

    Even then fructose is not as big of a deal and hard to consume directly.

    The site isn't loading but when its up stmichaels fructose study. most recent one

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