Lean bulking & Fats?
traumaticthrash
Posts: 103
Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
0
Replies
-
I don't know xxxx about lean bulking, but I do know that nuts are like 70% calories from fats & oils as is peanut butter so they aren't really in line with your macros.
A guy I know who was doing this was eating :-
8.15 Casein and oats
9.15 Casein and rice cakes
10.15 Whey
1.40 Casein, whey and oats
3.45 Fish, cabbage, bread, peanut butter
6.30 Fish and cabbage
10.30 Chicken and spinach
11.00 Casein and whey
and another is a chicken and rice N times per day guy.0 -
strong broscience.I don't know xxxx about lean bulking, but I do know that nuts are like 70% calories from fats & oils as is peanut butter so they aren't really in line with your macros.
A guy I know who was doing this was eating :-
8.15 Casein and oats
9.15 Casein and rice cakes
10.15 Whey
1.40 Casein, whey and oats
3.45 Fish, cabbage, bread, peanut butter
6.30 Fish and cabbage
10.30 Chicken and spinach
11.00 Casein and whey
and another is a chicken and rice N times per day guy.
what does pb fats have to do with lean bulking?
300-500 caloric surplus on top of TDEE should be your goal.0 -
what does pb fats have to do with lean bulking?
300-500 caloric surplus on top of TDEE should be your goal.
but there is nothing lean about these calories from fat, he is saying pb has a lot of fat to c & p ratio. your body will only use fat as fat energy. clean muscle building takes protein and carbs as the surplus...i personally would aim for like 40/40/20 p/c/f on lifting days. just my 2 cents though...0 -
Why would your body only use carbs and proteins?
but there is nothing lean about these calories from fat, he is saying pb has a lot of fat to c & p ratio. your body will only use fat as fat energy. clean muscle building takes protein and carbs as the surplus...i personally would aim for like 40/40/20 p/c/f on lifting days. just my 2 cents though...0 -
the Body uses carbs, fats then protein as the source of energy, protein takes the longest to breakdown.
anyway, i guess going back to the question was more to do with my split in percentage.. where I am currently consuming about 38-40% fat of my overall caloric intake.. bout 35% carbs and 25% protein! so i was wondering whether that would dampen by Lean bulking goal...0 -
I would go higher carb0
-
When bulking I would go for higher carbs and medium fats, because dietary fat is converted to body fat by the body easier than carbs when you are in a caloric surplus. I'm not 100% about whether "easier" is the right term, but from my understanding this is what happens in the body. When cutting, I actually like high fat and low carb on some occasions.
1g of protein/lb of bodyweight
0.4-0.5g of fats/lb of bodyweight
Remainder with carbs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PoC8MuoM_Q 0 -
The guy was getting too much fat compared to his targets. Peanut butter is likely to be part of that problem as it has twice as much fat as protein hence 76.4% calories from fat.strong broscience.
what does pb fats have to do with lean bulking?
PB would appear to be irrelevant to lean anything.0 -
the Body uses carbs, fats then protein as the source of energy, protein takes the longest to breakdown.
anyway, i guess going back to the question was more to do with my split in percentage.. where I am currently consuming about 38-40% fat of my overall caloric intake.. bout 35% carbs and 25% protein! so i was wondering whether that would dampen by Lean bulking goal...
who told you that protein takes the longest to break down? it depends on the form but overall fat does does. that's why ingestion of whey with fats can make take much longer to be absorbed.
it takes more energy to break down protein. Lean bulking has to do with a calorie controlled surplus. not macronturients.
People use ketogenic diets for bulking as well and they do fine0 -
the Body uses carbs, fats then protein as the source of energy, protein takes the longest to breakdown.
anyway, i guess going back to the question was more to do with my split in percentage.. where I am currently consuming about 38-40% fat of my overall caloric intake.. bout 35% carbs and 25% protein! so i was wondering whether that would dampen by Lean bulking goal...
who told you that protein takes the longest to break down? it depends on the form but overall fat does does. that's why ingestion of whey with fats can make take much longer to be absorbed.
it takes more energy to break down protein. Lean bulking has to do with a calorie controlled surplus. not macronturients.
People use ketogenic diets for bulking as well and they do fine
so what you're saying is. it doesn't matter what is consumed within carbs, protein & fats. but as long as you're consistent in hitting your required calorie surplus, then you're on track for bulking lean?0 -
bump interesting subject.0
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PB would appear to be irrelevant to lean anything.
.........................Lean refers to the person's composition (i.e. staying lean throughout vs traditional bulk/cut cycles where the person is anything but lean during the bulk), not the *food* being lean. The composition of the PB has nothing to do with the fact that it's a process of lean bulking.0 -
Fats are the easiest molecule to be stored as body fat, carbs and protein both have to be converted by enzymes and then stored...fat no conversion. SO too much fat in diet may lead to excess body fat storage. Moderation of fat is key if calories are already high, as in the case of a bulking diet
It appears that the range that is optimal is around 20-30%. You don't want to gain excess fat as the cutting phase will be longer and you will lose some of that beautiful muscle
A0 -
Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
Aim for .35-.45g per lb of lean body mass, you want your carbs to be higher when bulking.0 -
Thanks for the advice it's helping me understand even better of what i need to do.
I raised the topic because I was curious, while i was on a cutting phase - I was consuming mostly fat + protein and this worked for me. but i guess the logic is due to me eating below my maintenance levels. where as, now it's a different case..0 -
Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
[/quote
40 carb 30 fat 30 protein ????
lets assume you re pretty lean and weigh 160Lb and therefore you need 240 g of protein to bulk...
240 protein is 30% therefore you re saying you eat 240g of fat to make up the other 30% and you re 40% carbs must be somewhere in the region of 300g to make macros fit...
40 carbs 30 fat 30 protein just doesnt add up because to eat the right amount of protein on that split your calories would be through the roof and the only way it fits is if your protein intake is much lower and too low for a nice bulk.0 -
When bulking I would go for higher carbs and medium fats, because dietary fat is converted to body fat by the body easier than carbs when you are in a caloric surplus. I'm not 100% about whether "easier" is the right term, but from my understanding this is what happens in the body. When cutting, I actually like high fat and low carb on some occasions.
1g of protein/lb of bodyweight
0.4-0.5g of fats/lb of bodyweight
Remainder with carbs.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PoC8MuoM_Q
this0 -
Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
[/quote
40 carb 30 fat 30 protein ????
lets assume you re pretty lean and weigh 160Lb and therefore you need 240 g of protein to bulk...
240 protein is 30% therefore you re saying you eat 240g of fat to make up the other 30% and you re 40% carbs must be somewhere in the region of 300g to make macros fit...
40 carbs 30 fat 30 protein just doesnt add up because to eat the right amount of protein on that split your calories would be through the roof and the only way it fits is if your protein intake is much lower and too low for a nice bulk.
Hey - I'm on about 2700 calories to gain. about 90g from fat , 210g from Protein & bout 310 from carbs. but I always seem to go over in terms of my fat consumption and end up with a carb deficiency. the advice i've been getting is to have around 20-30% of fat from my daily caloric intake.0 -
Lean bulking is sort of the same enigma as culking. How you approach is is probably going to be mostly trial and error, and how your body responds is purely a factor of how well you understand your body. Also, the longer you have been training, the more favorably your body will respond to looser restrictions on a bulking regimen. Some can rev the carbs up to 500+ a day, others have to be tacitly aware and track carbs to not gain excess fat. That's mostly a combination of your genetic partitioning profile mixed somewhat with how long you've been eating a certain way. Generally, the more substrate you feed the body, the better the body comes to using that substrate, whether that's carbs protein or fat. Therefore, higher fats over extended periods will not necessarily hamper your goals.
To achieve lean bulk, it's probably wise to incorporate meso cycles or weeks of surplus followed by weeks of deficit, while slowly maintaining an uptrend in overall calorie intake as you get stronger and put on more muscle. An example would be:
2800 calories for 4-6 weeks, 40/30/30
2500 calories for the next 4-6, 40/30/30
3000 calories for the next 4-6, 40/30/30
2600 following that
Your gains will come in the mesocycles that have you on surplus, and the deficit weeks will keep your gut in check, while allowing for more growth down the line.
There's also no real harm than riding an slow linear uptrend in calories over say a year or so to amass size and strength, then implementing something like a 12 week moderate cut to bring out definition.
Everyone seems to be a tad different in terms of macro split. I know that staying under 25% fats on a long bulk will see size gain, but my joints take a hit. My training partner loads on about 500g carbs a day and never complains about low fat being an issue for mobility.0 -
the Body uses carbs, fats then protein as the source of energy, protein takes the longest to breakdown.
anyway, i guess going back to the question was more to do with my split in percentage.. where I am currently consuming about 38-40% fat of my overall caloric intake.. bout 35% carbs and 25% protein! so i was wondering whether that would dampen by Lean bulking goal...
who told you that protein takes the longest to break down? it depends on the form but overall fat does does. that's why ingestion of whey with fats can make take much longer to be absorbed.
it takes more energy to break down protein. Lean bulking has to do with a calorie controlled surplus. not macronturients.
People use ketogenic diets for bulking as well and they do fine
so what you're saying is. it doesn't matter what is consumed within carbs, protein & fats. but as long as you're consistent in hitting your required calorie surplus, then you're on track for bulking lean?
most of the time during a bulk you are going to have a higher level of activity, so you go with carbs.
fats are not going to make you fat more than carbs are going to make you fat either.
fat and carbs are constantly being oxidated, but at different rates which will vary based upon glycogen.
There has also been talk about some natural bodybuilders going very high in protein and It seemed that they had minimal fat gains.
I think it was an observational study and it was like 1.3g/lb+0 -
the Body uses carbs, fats then protein as the source of energy, protein takes the longest to breakdown.
anyway, i guess going back to the question was more to do with my split in percentage.. where I am currently consuming about 38-40% fat of my overall caloric intake.. bout 35% carbs and 25% protein! so i was wondering whether that would dampen by Lean bulking goal...
who told you that protein takes the longest to break down? it depends on the form but overall fat does does. that's why ingestion of whey with fats can make take much longer to be absorbed.
it takes more energy to break down protein. Lean bulking has to do with a calorie controlled surplus. not macronturients.
People use ketogenic diets for bulking as well and they do fine
so what you're saying is. it doesn't matter what is consumed within carbs, protein & fats. but as long as you're consistent in hitting your required calorie surplus, then you're on track for bulking lean?
most of the time during a bulk you are going to have a higher level of activity, so you go with carbs.
fats are not going to make you fat more than carbs are going to make you fat either.
fat and carbs are constantly being oxidated, but at different rates which will vary based upon glycogen.
There has also been talk about some natural bodybuilders going very high in protein and It seemed that they had minimal fat gains.
I think it was an observational study and it was like 1.3g/lb+
seconded.
Eat enough calories
get enough protein
lift progressively heavier *kitten*
sleep enough
rinse and repeat.0 -
Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
[/quote
40 carb 30 fat 30 protein ????
lets assume you re pretty lean and weigh 160Lb and therefore you need 240 g of protein to bulk...
240 protein is 30% therefore you re saying you eat 240g of fat to make up the other 30% and you re 40% carbs must be somewhere in the region of 300g to make macros fit...
40 carbs 30 fat 30 protein just doesnt add up because to eat the right amount of protein on that split your calories would be through the roof and the only way it fits is if your protein intake is much lower and too low for a nice bulk.
Hey - I'm on about 2700 calories to gain. about 90g from fat , 210g from Protein & bout 310 from carbs. but I always seem to go over in terms of my fat consumption and end up with a carb deficiency. the advice i've been getting is to have around 20-30% of fat from my daily caloric intake.
from what you ve said above your macros work out at 50% carb 15% fat and 35% protein and not the 40c 30f 30p you think you are eating toform the 2700 cals , so not sure how you re going to achieve your goal if your macros are so far off what you think youare eating ?????
i think you need to recalculate and acess what you want and how to get there...0 -
Lean bulking is sort of the same enigma as culking. How you approach is is probably going to be mostly trial and error, and how your body responds is purely a factor of how well you understand your body.
This.
Noobs always want to lean bulk. It is about the single hardest thing to do body comp wise, you have to be very in tune with how your body reacts to various calorie levels and macros.
If you're still calculating your maintence level using formulas, lean bulking is probably not going to work well for you. To lean bulk you are trying to nail a very small calorie band. For how inaccurate the formulas are for losing, how big the horseshoe pit is, they are even moreso for gaining.
Beginners likewise can take advantage of larger deficits. 500 cal/day is no big deal for a first time bulker.0 -
the Body uses carbs, fats then protein as the source of energy, protein takes the longest to breakdown.
anyway, i guess going back to the question was more to do with my split in percentage.. where I am currently consuming about 38-40% fat of my overall caloric intake.. bout 35% carbs and 25% protein! so i was wondering whether that would dampen by Lean bulking goal...
who told you that protein takes the longest to break down? it depends on the form but overall fat does does. that's why ingestion of whey with fats can make take much longer to be absorbed.
it takes more energy to break down protein. Lean bulking has to do with a calorie controlled surplus. not macronturients.
People use ketogenic diets for bulking as well and they do fine
so what you're saying is. it doesn't matter what is consumed within carbs, protein & fats. but as long as you're consistent in hitting your required calorie surplus, then you're on track for bulking lean?
most of the time during a bulk you are going to have a higher level of activity, so you go with carbs.
fats are not going to make you fat more than carbs are going to make you fat either.
fat and carbs are constantly being oxidated, but at different rates which will vary based upon glycogen.
There has also been talk about some natural bodybuilders going very high in protein and It seemed that they had minimal fat gains.
I think it was an observational study and it was like 1.3g/lb+
pretty valid point mate. thanks for the advice and all! all this **** helps me build my knowledge!0 -
Lean bulking is sort of the same enigma as culking. How you approach is is probably going to be mostly trial and error, and how your body responds is purely a factor of how well you understand your body. Also, the longer you have been training, the more favorably your body will respond to looser restrictions on a bulking regimen. Some can rev the carbs up to 500+ a day, others have to be tacitly aware and track carbs to not gain excess fat. That's mostly a combination of your genetic partitioning profile mixed somewhat with how long you've been eating a certain way. Generally, the more substrate you feed the body, the better the body comes to using that substrate, whether that's carbs protein or fat. Therefore, higher fats over extended periods will not necessarily hamper your goals.
To achieve lean bulk, it's probably wise to incorporate meso cycles or weeks of surplus followed by weeks of deficit, while slowly maintaining an uptrend in overall calorie intake as you get stronger and put on more muscle. An example would be:
2800 calories for 4-6 weeks, 40/30/30
2500 calories for the next 4-6, 40/30/30
3000 calories for the next 4-6, 40/30/30
2600 following that
Your gains will come in the mesocycles that have you on surplus, and the deficit weeks will keep your gut in check, while allowing for more growth down the line.
There's also no real harm than riding an slow linear uptrend in calories over say a year or so to amass size and strength, then implementing something like a 12 week moderate cut to bring out definition.
Everyone seems to be a tad different in terms of macro split. I know that staying under 25% fats on a long bulk will see size gain, but my joints take a hit. My training partner loads on about 500g carbs a day and never complains about low fat being an issue for mobility.
Fantastic & interesting points.. and i completely agree with you in terms of trial and error... i will definitely look into some of your points. thanks 0 -
.0
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"Lean bulk" term makes me snicker every time I hear it because to "bulk" means to add muscle and fat. But the goal is to add a little fat as possible.Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
Anyway, don't worry so much about the fat content. It's your calories you should worry about.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Basically what ever your excess calories are you will gain fat and muscle, but you may feel different with different macros, and it will be easier mentally doing it one way over the other.
Other than that lean bulking is just slow bulking, you go so slow you don't see yourself put on a lot of fat at once!0 -
"Lean bulk" term makes me snicker every time I hear it because to "bulk" means to add muscle and fat. But the goal is to add a little fat as possible.Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
Anyway, don't worry so much about the fat content. It's your calories you should worry about.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I have also heard this be called a "Clean" bulk years ago.
not clean foods but clean as in controlled0 -
I always understood it to be, clean vs dirty.
"Lean bulk" term makes me snicker every time I hear it because to "bulk" means to add muscle and fat. But the goal is to add a little fat as possible.Hey Ladies & Gents
just need some additional advice. I am on a lean bulking program at the moment.. with the aim of gaining 2 pounds every 5 weeks.
my Split is - 40% Carbs 30% fats and 30% protein. however, for the past few days (i've just started) I always seem to be hitting Fats at around 38-40%
These fats tend to come from peanut butter, nuts, fish, Beef & Pork.
I was just wondering if this would have an impact on my lean bulk. I am hitting my targeted calories each day, so I don't think that's too much of a problem.
Advice please
Anyway, don't worry so much about the fat content. It's your calories you should worry about.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I have also heard this be called a "Clean" bulk years ago.
not clean foods but clean as in controlled0
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