High protein intake: friend or foe? Evidences

1g per LBM while cutting on Keto seems to be the norm.

The analysis you have done is great but high protein do not cause any kidney problem but if a person who is having a kidney problem should avoid high protein intake which is not god for the kidney

I just looked at mine, and I had been noticing that I was almost always going over in my protein. I figured it out, and I always got at least the minimum you stated, and never over the 1.5 g/kg., so I guess I'm okay. I'm not purposely trying to eat high protein, but end up doing it.

The regular guy / girl who is following a strict diet and reads about increasing protein to 1-1.2 g /kg/ day to help results. This is TRUE FOR FAT LOSS, not for WEIGHT LOSS in general.
If you are on a caloric deficit, chances are that you are eating very low quantity of proteins. But if you want to burn only FAT and limit Muscle reduction, you MUST tell this to your body somehow. Workout and increased protein intake is your way to tell your body " I am transforming my diet. This adjustements I have made must reflect the way YOU change. We only want muscles here, get rid of the fat" .
This is more important for the males rather than females. An "ideal" female body doesn't usually have lots of muscle in comparison. Additionally, in a female, muscles would not grow over a certain limit because of lack of testosterone. Hence, for a female, weight loss usually reflects more appropriately fat loss, because there is not that much muscle to get rid of.
If you are a girl, high protein intake will help you less than if you are a guy.

going to call you out on the bit in bold

firstly, who defines what an "ideal" female body is....? See my avatar? she's a forensic reconstruction of a woman who lived 50,000 years before anyone dictated to women what an "ideal" female body was supposed to be, and she has a lot more muscle mass than most modern women of her height. Some of it is genetic, but some of it is the result of living her entire life without mod cons that make people weak and sedentary. Women are supposed to be strong and are supposed to have muscles. Just because we have about 10% less than what men do, does not mean it's okay to just let our muscles waste away and that there's no benefit to getting adequate protein and doing strength training while dieting.

Also, due to the lack of testosterone and hence relative difficulty building muscle compared to men, surely it would be *more* important for women to preserve what lean muscle mass they have, not less? Women have less testosterone so are at greater risk of losing muscle than men are. Therefore it's more important to look after it, not less!! Especially as loss of lean muscle mass happens along with loss of bone density.... and the converse, preserving or improving lean muscle mass means greater bone density, and as a doctor you know already that low bone density increases the risk of osteoporosis. More muscle also decreases the risk of joint problems as strong muscles support the joints. So more muscle mass in women = better health. So much so that the UAE government is actively encouraging powerlifting among women, to help reduce the amount of women who get osteoporosis....

Additionally, the look that most women want can be better achieved by looking after their lean body mass, as opposed to starving it off, even those that don't want visible definition, the difference is keeping the body fat percentage above 20%. Wasted muscles isn't the look that many women want, what they want is to be firm, rather than flabby or all skin and bones. That comes from having strong muscles. Many women diet down and find they still don't look the way they want, because they are still soft and flabby looking, just smaller. Then they start strength training and watching their protein intake and find they start to like their bodies................ so why tell women there's no benefit looking after their lean body mass? Why not look after it right from the start so they don't lose it in the first place then have to train for months to get it back again?

Lastly, being strong is incredibly empowering for women. We are not supposed to be weak or feeble. That's just a modern cultural concept, which is extremely disempowering. If you want to know just how empowering strength training is for women, read this article and especially the comments that follow it: http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/a-lion-in-iron-ladies-measurements-dont-matter/ 10% less muscle than men does not equal weak and feeble and does not mean there's no benefit in looking after your muscle mass.

he wasn't really saying there's no benefit, just less. It's hard to say if it benefits men or women more, but if we can do the same training, then surely eating similar amounts of protein while adjusted for each person's calorie goals/portion sizes, would be beneficial too.

he needs to phrase it a whole lot better, because what he basically said was that women have less muscle than men so there's no need to worry about losing it because there's less of it to lose.....? I mean WTF really....?

if that's not what he meant then he needs to brush up on his writing skills....

and even if he meant it how you understood it, the fact that women have less testosterone would mean women lose muscle more easily, and find it harder to gain it back, therefore it's *more* important to look after it, not less.

She calculated my actual protein requirement as well below that and told me that the excess protein was getting turned into fat.

Protein does not turn into fat. If dropping protein intake also led to a subsequent reduction in calories, then this would be the cause of your weight loss.

Protein can be converted to glucose which can be converted to fat.

I am inclined to agree with you on the second part of your response, but absent more information it's tough to make a determination.

your glycogen stores have to be full in order for protein to turn into fat.

there are some amino acids that are soley ketogenic.


overall this is very unlikely to happen though

That's fair, and I agree. My point was rather pedantic in nature, in retrospect.

he needs to phrase it a whole lot better, because what he basically said was that women have less muscle than men so there's no need to worry about losing it because there's less of it to lose.....? I mean WTF really....?

if that's not what he meant then he needs to brush up on his writing skills....

and even if he meant it how you understood it, the fact that women have less testosterone would mean women lose muscle more easily, and find it harder to gain it back, therefore it's *more* important to look after it, not less.

Hello, thanks for your interesting and exhaustive comtribution. Please let's all continue to be polite.

I have not stated that muscle is less important for women than it is for men. I believe the opposite and I agree with your post. Instead, I underlined the differences of a high protein intake advantages in preserving muscle on a diet while undertaking a caloric deficit.
Male overweight people are more likely to have more muscle as well, for genetic, hormonal reasons as well as possible previous gym and sport activities aimed to strength training, whereas female overweight are more likely to have a predominant excess of fat for the opposite reasons. Of course there are exceptions, everyone is different. It is always advisable to have your physician at your side while starting a diet, because he's the one who can help you tailor it.

Hence, the average overweight woman may be less interested in a high protein intake, since her caloric deficit will be already more incline towards fat loss than it would be on a male.
It is important , however, to stay above the minimum daily intake recommendations.

Both males and females are strongly invited to workout to preserve lean mass and to benefit from exercise derived health advantages. These include bone preservation, as you have well put.

Thank you for clarifying.

Your statement was ambiguous, it wasn't clear that you were saying women don't need to worry so much about protein intake... it read that they don't need to worry so much about lean body mass. As you say above, that's not what you meant. I'm glad you agree about the importance of women preserving their lean body mass.

he wasn't really saying there's no benefit, just less. It's hard to say if it benefits men or women more, but if we can do the same training, then surely eating similar amounts of protein while adjusted for each person's calorie goals/portion sizes, would be beneficial too.

he needs to phrase it a whole lot better, because what he basically said was that women have less muscle than men so there's no need to worry about losing it because there's less of it to lose.....? I mean WTF really....?

if that's not what he meant then he needs to brush up on his writing skills....

and even if he meant it how you understood it, the fact that women have less testosterone would mean women lose muscle more easily, and find it harder to gain it back, therefore it's *more* important to look after it, not less.

I think this forum is best, or at least most productive, if we assume good intentions on the part of the person we're discussing something with. This has been a pretty rad discussion thus far.

P.S. Women who lift heavy are awesome.

Bumping for my friends list to see! Great discussion! I have been struggling to make the 1g/lb body-weight that I've read as the accepted protein intake, and have been worried I'll see a reduction in LBM while cutting. 1g/pound LBM sits much better with me and it's nice to know that it may still help avoid LBM loss.