Gaining muscle on a deficit

aalhasan
aalhasan Posts: 104
in Fitness and Exercise
Hello everyone,

Excuse my poor knowledge on this subject.
A lot of people say that you can't gain muscle when you're dieting. Why is that so?
If I consume lots of protein (120-130g per day) and lift weight, why wouldn't I gain muscle?

Thanks in advance!
«1

Replies

  • aalhasan
    aalhasan Posts: 104
    bump
  • Hexahedra
    Hexahedra Posts: 894 Member
    This is a topic that has been done many times.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1016062-calorie-deficit-no-muscle-mass-gain-so-why-am-i-stronger?hl=gaining+deficit
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    popcorn_2.gif

    Thursday entertainment may be set...
  • OliviaVandenberg
    OliviaVandenberg Posts: 7
    You can definitely gain muscle on a calorie deficit... I have first hand experience with this. But you will gain muscle a lot slower than you would if you were eating over your caloric needs.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    You can definitely gain muscle on a calorie deficit... I have first hand experience with this. But you will gain muscle a lot slower than you would if you were eating over your caloric needs.

    Here we go.....
  • Pnuke77
    Pnuke77 Posts: 23
    Hows it possible that people lose weight and put on muscle? You need a deficit to drop the fat but and increase to gain muscle? I always wondered how that works.
  • djeffreys10
    djeffreys10 Posts: 2,312 Member
    Anyone that tells you that you can is wrong, plain and simple. You can gain strength for the first few months. This is just you muscles adapting to the workout and operating more effeciently. People lose fat, which reveals muscle they already have on their frame. Because they can now see muscle, they wrongly assume that they built the muscle during this time. They are wrong.
  • djeffreys10
    djeffreys10 Posts: 2,312 Member
    Did I mention they are wrong?
  • bcf7683
    bcf7683 Posts: 1,653 Member
    popcorn_2.gif

    Thursday entertainment may be set...

    :laugh: :laugh:
  • pastryari
    pastryari Posts: 8,646 Member
    You can definitely gain muscle on a calorie deficit... I have first hand experience with this. But you will gain muscle a lot slower than you would if you were eating over your caloric needs.

    vRsqmro.gif
  • KarenJanine
    KarenJanine Posts: 3,497 Member
    You can definitely gain muscle on a calorie deficit... I have first hand experience with this. But you will gain muscle a lot slower than you would if you were eating over your caloric needs.

    vRsqmro.gif

    :laugh: Glad it's nearly home time.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    6f6.gif
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Now I know how Bill Murray felt.......
  • donohoe4
    donohoe4 Posts: 76 Member
    For the last 3 months, I have stayed about the same weight, but have lost 6% body fat and several inches due to haevy lifting. I would find it very difficult to build muscle and lose actual pounds.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,030 Member
    You can definitely gain muscle on a calorie deficit... I have first hand experience with this. But you will gain muscle a lot slower than you would if you were eating over your caloric needs.
    Gain muscle no......................show muscle definition yes. You can't GAIN if you don't add.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • footiechick82
    footiechick82 Posts: 1,203 Member
    I just went through this with a friend of mine yesterday and 2 other people that are trainers on this site...

    NO you can't.

    I am eating like a freakin' pig! My lean body mass is about 111lbs, my buddy figured out if I want to maintain, I have to eat 111grams of protein a day. If I want to get leaner, I need to eat about 200grams a day.

    It's insane. Now I'm trying to figure out more options for protein intake so I can get this process moving quicker.

    Oh and I eat about 1,800-1,850 calories a day.

    I'm 134, 5'7 and about 17-17.5% bodyfat.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    "You can't gain muscle on a deficit!"
    "Yes you can, I did, look!"
    "No, you dropped fat, which showed your muscle more"
    "But they look bigger!"
    "You're holding water and glycogen in the muscle, you just have a 'pump' from training"
    "No way, they are definitely getting bigger"
    "Well, you might have some newbie gains"
    "No way, I'm definitely building on a deficit"
    "How, precisely? Your body is using all your energy, you have none less for building muscle."
    "But I'm eating tons of protein!"
    "...and your body is using it all to repair the damage done by your training, and burning it as fuel."
    "No way! It's burning my fat to do everything, and then using the protein to build muscle"
    "Nope, your body simply doesn't prioritize like that. Survival > muscle building."

    Has that about covered it? Can we lock the thread now?
  • grandevampire
    grandevampire Posts: 242
    Beginner gains.

    If you have never done any sort of strength training (at least not in the last 5-10 years), I would go so far as to say that it would be pretty surprising not to see a tiny bit of change when you start doing it regularly. In daily sedentary lifestyle, many muscles groups just aren't tested nearly enough (practically atrophied in my case), so any practically any load could have a small (but nevertheless perceivable) effect.

    I was skinny fat 10 weeks ago and have been on a moderate calorie deficit (~250 kcals) since. I didn't lose any scale weight at all for the approximately 8 weeks that I've been pretty intensely strength training, but have lost a visibly significant amount of fat around my midsection. My triceps, shoulders, lats, and traps are no where near big, but are clearly larger now (I didn't start with much/any excess fat in those areas so they weren't just masked).

    From here on out though, I would NOT expect any sustained mass gain at all. I am just working to lose as little of it as possible as I continue to drop the fat away.

    ETA:
    "Well, you might have some newbie gains"
    *waves hand*

    EETA:
    Predictions for my future, knowing better how my body is responding to food vs training, I suspect that when I first go to maintenance calories with continued strength training, I may have another bit of "newbie gains" despite not yet being at a surplus. However,, that is pure speculation and remains to be seen.
  • MercenaryNoetic26
    MercenaryNoetic26 Posts: 2,747 Member
    Bump
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    To be anabolic (gain muscle or fat) you have to have a surplus of calories.

    To be catabolic (lose weight) you have to be at a deficit of calories.

    You cannot be anabolic at a calorie deficit...thus you cannot gain muscle while eating at a caloric deficit. What most people experience when they think they're gaining muscle at a caloric deficit is simply shedding layers of fat which then show the underlying muscle that was there in the first place...it just was hidden in fat.

    One small caveat is some minimal noob gains if you're very overweight.

    What you can do though is maintain your muscle, burn fat, get stronger, increase bone density, bump your resting metabolism, increase your level of overall fitness and feel awesome.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,030 Member
    Beginner gains.

    If you have never done any sort of strength training (at least not in the last 5-10 years), I would go so far as to say that it would be pretty surprising not to see a tiny bit of change when you start doing it regularly. In daily sedentary lifestyle, many muscles groups just aren't tested nearly enough (practically atrophied in my case), so any practically any load could have a small (but nevertheless perceivable) effect.

    I was skinny fat 10 weeks ago and have been on a moderate calorie deficit (~250 kcals) since. I didn't lose any scale weight at all for the approximately 8 weeks that I've been pretty intensely strength training, but have lost a visibly significant amount of fat around my midsection. My triceps, shoulders, lats, and traps are no where near big, but are clearly larger now (I didn't start with much/any excess fat in those areas so they weren't just masked).

    From here on out though, I would NOT expect any sustained mass gain at all. I am just working to lose as little of it as possible as I continue to drop the fat away.
    There are exceptions, but even then the muscle gain/regain is minimal.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • grandevampire
    grandevampire Posts: 242
    There are exceptions, but even then the muscle gain/regain is minimal.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    Yep, I fully concur that it's minimal. But for a weakling who has bony limbs, any sort of convex shape on the upper body is promptly noticed and touched (a lot).
  • pjp1125
    pjp1125 Posts: 313
    In a word, protein.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,030 Member
    In a word, protein.
    Only part of the equation. The rest relies on calorie surplus even if only modest.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Hello everyone,

    Excuse my poor knowledge on this subject.
    A lot of people say that you can't gain muscle when you're dieting. Why is that so?
    If I consume lots of protein (120-130g per day) and lift weight, why wouldn't I gain muscle?

    Thanks in advance!

    You can eat all the protein you want but if you are still not in a surplus it will be used for energy and repair before it will be used to create new muscle.

    You need the building material AND the energy to add muscle. Your body will go to fat stores for energy once it runs out of fuel from what you ate. So it is hard to have a surplus of protein and energy at the same time on a deficit.
  • wannabpiper
    wannabpiper Posts: 402 Member
    Did I mention they are wrong?

    I know this topic has been done to death, but for those of us new to mfp it's a strange concept. The issue, I believe, is that we need to define a calorie "deficit" for this purpose. I'm thinking that a caloric deficit will allow us to lose weight, however, if we go below our bmr needs, that's the actual "deficit" we're talking about?

    For example, if my body requires 2,000 calories to maintain at my current weight and at my current activity level, and I drop to 1,000 cals, that's below my necessary bmr, that which my body needs to function properly. So in this case, I'm guessing my body won't make muscle because it's using everything it needs to function.

    If I up the calories to 1300, which might be my bmr + 100 extra cals, then I could build muscle with that additional 100 cals. Is this too simple an analysis or do I have it right?

    Thx for revisiting this; I get that you've done it again and again and appreciate your patience.

    Laura
  • EmmaKarney
    EmmaKarney Posts: 690 Member
    You can't gain fat in a deficit so I don't see why it's so difficult to understand that you can't gain muscle in a deficit.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
    In a word, protein.

    If you're on a deficit, the protein will be oxidized for energy for everyday living before it is used to build muscle.

    And your body won't use protein to build unnecessary muscle while it's dipping into fat stores for survival. To your body, fat stores are more important to long term survival than slightly bigger muscles.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Did I mention they are wrong?

    I know this topic has been done to death, but for those of us new to mfp it's a strange concept. The issue, I believe, is that we need to define a calorie "deficit" for this purpose. I'm thinking that a caloric deficit will allow us to lose weight, however, if we go below our bmr needs, that's the actual "deficit" we're talking about?

    For example, if my body requires 2,000 calories to maintain at my current weight and at my current activity level, and I drop to 1,000 cals, that's below my necessary bmr, that which my body needs to function properly. So in this case, I'm guessing my body won't make muscle because it's using everything it needs to function.

    If I up the calories to 1300, which might be my bmr + 100 extra cals, then I could build muscle with that additional 100 cals. Is this too simple an analysis or do I have it right?

    Thx for revisiting this; I get that you've done it again and again and appreciate your patience.

    Laura

    If your body requires 2000 to maintain then anything less than that will cause you to lose weight not add it. You would need the 2000 plus to increase weight.

    If you ate 1400 you are still 600 calories short of what your body needs to maintain current weight.
  • djeffreys10
    djeffreys10 Posts: 2,312 Member
    Did I mention they are wrong?

    I know this topic has been done to death, but for those of us new to mfp it's a strange concept. The issue, I believe, is that we need to define a calorie "deficit" for this purpose. I'm thinking that a caloric deficit will allow us to lose weight, however, if we go below our bmr needs, that's the actual "deficit" we're talking about?

    For example, if my body requires 2,000 calories to maintain at my current weight and at my current activity level, and I drop to 1,000 cals, that's below my necessary bmr, that which my body needs to function properly. So in this case, I'm guessing my body won't make muscle because it's using everything it needs to function.

    If I up the calories to 1300, which might be my bmr + 100 extra cals, then I could build muscle with that additional 100 cals. Is this too simple an analysis or do I have it right?

    Thx for revisiting this; I get that you've done it again and again and appreciate your patience.

    Laura

    If 2000 is your maintenance, and you are eating 1999, you are in a deficit and you will not gain muscle. If you are eating 2000, you are at maintenance and you still will not gain muscle. If you are eating 2001 calories, you are at a surplus and will gain muscle with proper exerdise at, roughly, the rate of 1 lb every 3500 days.

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