Obesity a disease?
Replies
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nope. not a disease. possibly associated to a disorder, or emotional/psychological problem, but not a disease.
anorexia is not a disease, its seen as a mental illness.
would it be a disease if I tried to fornicate daily with a large mexican cacti? if I just had a compulsion to get it on with that Caryophyllale to the point where it had serious effects on my health even after my doctor warned me about this? is that a disease? no its just a compulsion.
obesity is caused 99% of the time by over eating. either you don't care about gaining weight, or it was how you were raised so you don't know what a healthy portion is or what healthy food is, or its compulsive eating or comfort eating.
I don't think its called a disease when you are within your healthy BMI, or is being in your healthy BMI a disease?
you know what. forget about it. were all diseased, obese or not, black, white, purple all the colors of the rainbow all sexes. were diseased.
now who's got the pills to fix it...... ooooooh here we go. now were getting somewhere.
maybe the "you have a disease" guys and the "we sell the pills for your disease" guys are somehow working together.....
gee. never heard of that.
Pharmaceuticals Invested Nearly $2 billion in Campaign Contributions and Lobbying
Individuals, lobbyists, and political action committees in the pharmaceutical industry contributed $167 million to federal candidates from 1990 to 2008
Members of the House and Senate received an average of $25,277 and $81,891, respectively, in pharmaceutical industry contributions in 2008
Pharmaceutical industry spending to lobby the federal government exceeded $1.5 billion from 1998 to 2008, more than any other industry
The ratio of pharmaceutical industry lobbyists to Members of Congress is approximately 2:1
THATS ALSO WHY PIZZA IS A VEGETABLE IN AMERICA.
cause they got the money to lobby you, or bury you.
so yeh.... we are all diseased, cause its mad profitable.
Pizzza...mmm''zzzz...vegetables. now i feel much better about those two large pizzas i ate yesterday.
btw - good comment/response:flowerforyou: 0 -
nope. not a disease. possibly associated to a disorder, or emotional/psychological problem, but not a disease.
anorexia is not a disease, its seen as a mental illness.
would it be a disease if I tried to fornicate daily with a large mexican cacti? if I just had a compulsion to get it on with that Caryophyllale to the point where it had serious effects on my health even after my doctor warned me about this? is that a disease? no its just a compulsion.
obesity is caused 99% of the time by over eating. either you don't care about gaining weight, or it was how you were raised so you don't know what a healthy portion is or what healthy food is, or its compulsive eating or comfort eating.
I don't think its called a disease when you are within your healthy BMI, or is being in your healthy BMI a disease?
you know what. forget about it. were all diseased, obese or not, black, white, purple all the colors of the rainbow all sexes. were diseased.
now who's got the pills to fix it...... ooooooh here we go. now were getting somewhere.
maybe the "you have a disease" guys and the "we sell the pills for your disease" guys are somehow working together.....
gee. never heard of that.
Pharmaceuticals Invested Nearly $2 billion in Campaign Contributions and Lobbying
Individuals, lobbyists, and political action committees in the pharmaceutical industry contributed $167 million to federal candidates from 1990 to 2008
Members of the House and Senate received an average of $25,277 and $81,891, respectively, in pharmaceutical industry contributions in 2008
Pharmaceutical industry spending to lobby the federal government exceeded $1.5 billion from 1998 to 2008, more than any other industry
The ratio of pharmaceutical industry lobbyists to Members of Congress is approximately 2:1
THATS ALSO WHY PIZZA IS A VEGETABLE IN AMERICA.
cause they got the money to lobby you, or bury you.
so yeh.... we are all diseased, cause its mad profitable.
If that's America, I'm glad I'm not American.0 -
eating more than you take in and not working is a bad lifestyle choice and not a "disease"...
disease is something that you have no control over and then get sick, i.e. cancer...
You can control what you eat and if and when you exercise...0 -
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.0 -
Have any of you priced chips and cokes lately? The apple is always cheaper. What's not cheaper is 50 apples.I don't mind paying more for chips if it means that the apple is cheaper for someone who could only ever afford chips.0 -
Also, the bottom line with the public is it might help some people to call it a disease.
Some people don't want to think of themselves as having a disease so they might take obesity more seriously. I know I'm one of those people. If obesity had been labeled a disease rather than just a "risk factor", I think i would have been more serious and fought to stay at worst in the "overweight" range BMI 25-29.9. I just don't want any diseases until it is necessary.
So it will help some. I know the argument will be it won't help all. That's fine. If it helps some, that's progress. We've all heard the 250 lb woman say she's happy being a big woman and is completely healthy. Now she wouldn't be able to say that.
I think with this attitude, people may learn their "obese" number and fight to stay under that. So even if they don't get to normal range (which ideally they should), we will have progress.0 -
Obesity isn't something that you catch one day and weight 22 stone the next.
You make the choices to put the food in your mouth.
You make the choice not to exercise
You make the choice that puts you in a wheel chair because your knees/hips can't support your frame.
It's my taxes on my hard earned wages that fund disability benefit because you spent too much time eating the wrong foods.
I'm making the choice to change my life and my lifestyle so I don't become a burden on the state and give myself heart disease and cancer.
Generally is a disease is something where the sufferer has little or no control over. Obesity is self-induced.
I don't believe anyone can blame it on genetics. 90% of the people on my mother's side of the family are horrendously un-healthy, obese, riddle with cancer and heart disease... I'm not... I made the CHOICE not to be. Just like obese people chose to over-eat and under-exert themselves.0 -
Does it help obese people more to sneer at them and tell them they've done this to themselves and all the blame falls on them? Or does it help obese more to acknowledge that they have a medical problem that they need to control?
The idea is to help reduce obesity rates and help people stop being obese.
I see a lot of people sitting on their high horse telling people they lack responsibility and knowingly make bad choices.0 -
Didn't mean to seem like I was a bomb thrower-- throw out a smoking hot subject and run away.
But I appreciate the discussion going on.
My thoughts align with those who mentioned the personal responsibility. I'm not a proponent of calling personal weaknesses "diseases," or "addictions," aka diseases. I think we're all responsible for what we do, drink, eat, say, yada yada.
These days, nothing is anybody's fault-- drink too much? You can't help it. You're an alcoholic-- it's a disease.
Can't keep it in your pants, Tiger? Not your fault You can't help it. You're a sex addict-- it's a disease.
It's BS. And now, you can't put down your fork? Not your fault. It's a disease.
Please.
The results are twofold, as I see it-- neither of which are good.
First-- as mentioned above, it is too easy to shirk responsibility and look to someone else for the answer when it's found inside. To quote Nancy Reagan-- Just say no. And if you don't want to, fine-- but don't blame anybody else. And don't tell me you can't. You can do anything you want to, if you want it badly enough.
Second-- as mentioned in my original post-- it further opens the door to government control. Already we have New York City telling businesses what type of oils they may and may not use, and what size drinks they can and cannot sell. (yes, that one has been overturned...but is on appeal.)0 -
An addiction not a disease.
ad·dic·tion
[uh-dik-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.0 -
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.0 -
For ****'s sake. Can I say **** on mfp?
It makes sense to call it a disease on various levels. ESPECIALLY so public policy and health care decisions can be made.0 -
Obesity isn't something that you catch one day and weight 22 stone the next.
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It's my taxes on my hard earned wages that fund disability benefit because you spent too much time eating the wrong foods.
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Generally is a disease is something where the sufferer has little or no control over. Obesity is self-induced.
I don't believe anyone can blame it on genetics. ...
-There are diseases that are slowly brought on over time.
-I'm with you on the taxes. i don't want new taxes. Unfortunately health premiums might go up a little to cover obesity if I'm being honest
-I don't think anyone is saying "genetically inevitable". Different people have different genetic predispositions. I agree with you that if they have those, they should be aware and CHOOSE to do something about it. It will be harder for some than others because of genetics but that's OK. That's no excuse. Nobody said things need to require equal effort.0 -
There won't be "national bans" on soft drinks or any other food. You do realize corporations run the world right, and they would hardly allow that.
I've only been on this site for a few weeks but it had looked like it was a haven from the insane hate politics that are everywhere else. Guess I was wrong ::grumble:
OMG No.0 -
uh... there already is a tax on Gasoline...0
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Meh. Something can be a disease AND self-inflicted. If I smoke and then get lung cancer, the lung cancer is a direct consequence of the smoking and it's still a disease. I personally don't think of being obese as a disease but I don't think it's ridiculous to consider it one.0
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For all the "food tax" people. What if we made gym passes, exercise equipment, and fitness equipment tax deductable. Instead of making it harder to get bad food, why don't we make it easier to live healthier. Here in Canada, we have a fitness tax credit of $500 for minors, what if we extended that to all people? What if insurance companies and the governments health plans paid all of or part of gym passes, exercise equipment, and fitness equipment? Why don't insurance companies work on preventative care instead of treating the side-effects of obesity? Why don't we make healthier foods more available like in schools and vending machines? Why don't we make our kids take nutrition classes in school? Why don't we offer free courses in nutrition at public health centers? Why don't we tax the corporations that provide fast food or junk food more to offset some off the cost in preventative care? Why don't we force the fast food industry to have a certain percent of their menu of healthy choices (that are real healthy choices not just an illusion) and make them offer it at a compareable price to the other items? There is no reason that a salad and bottled water should be more then a burger, fries, and pop.
Why doesn't the stuff I listed above happen.... Because everyone gets rich off of illness.. self induced or not. The health care industry, the food industry, the wheel chair/buggy companies, all the companies that produce railings and other assistance items, the pharmacutical industry, the diet industry....etc.
I see the proposed change in favor of all the industries that stand to profit from the side effects of obesity. I think that this will give those industries even more money. The people that normally couldn't afford "treatment" will now have it covered by insurance which is a whole new group of people for these industries to target.
My concern is not if we call it a disease or not. It's what we are going to do about it. How do we help the people not the industries? Who cares what we call it! Let's start focus on preventative care not the cure. This is just my opinion.0 -
A benefit I can see of calling obesity a disease would be that medical professionals would begin learning about nutrition and realistic weight reduction methods. We always talk about how under educated the typical medical professional is about nutrition so maybe calling this a disease will lead to them being properly trained to give sound advice.0
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Leptin resistance. Look it up. Someone already mentioned it in this thread but everyone is too caught up fat shaming to pay any attention.
There is a physiological basis for obsesity. Our eating habits are not as simple as "eat/don't eat". That is simple ignorance.
God the complete idiocy and hatred on these forums drives me insane!!!0 -
Didn't mean to seem like I was a bomb thrower-- throw out a smoking hot subject and run away.
But I appreciate the discussion going on.
My thoughts align with those who mentioned the personal responsibility. I'm not a proponent of calling personal weaknesses "diseases," or "addictions," aka diseases. I think we're all responsible for what we do, drink, eat, say, yada yada.
These days, nothing is anybody's fault-- drink too much? You can't help it. You're an alcoholic-- it's a disease.
Can't keep it in your pants, Tiger? Not your fault You can't help it. You're a sex addict-- it's a disease.
It's BS. And now, you can't put down your fork? Not your fault. It's a disease.
Please.
The results are twofold, as I see it-- neither of which are good.
First-- as mentioned above, it is too easy to shirk responsibility and look to someone else for the answer when it's found inside. To quote Nancy Reagan-- Just say no. And if you don't want to, fine-- but don't blame anybody else. And don't tell me you can't. You can do anything you want to, if you want it badly enough.
Second-- as mentioned in my original post-- it further opens the door to government control. Already we have New York City telling businesses what type of oils they may and may not use, and what size drinks they can and cannot sell. (yes, that one has been overturned...but is on appeal.)
It could also lead to:
-proper recognition and assessment
-greater self accountability
-more resources to help people who need help
It may actually lead to things like tax deductions when people are doing things to fight obesity.
I hope it doesn't lead to passing blame as you say. I don't think it will.
I hope it won't lead to too much "control" or new taxes. I agree this is something that will need to be watched.0 -
Well said. I thiink the point the American Medical Association is making by classifying obesity as a disease is not to give everyone a license to overeat, or accept responsibility for their actions, but to give medical professionals more treatment options which are not limited solely to medication and/or surgery but could include nutritional counseling which most insurers currently do not pay for. Like Diabetes, which is also obesity and exercise related but still needs to be managed by diet and exercise.Obesity can be a disease and still be your fault. It causes massive dysfunction of the bodily systems, when the obesity is severe enough, so it meets the medical definition of disease. However, that does not absolve the individual responsibilty for being there. It I have unprotected sex, it's my fault if I get an STD. If I eat obscene amounts, it's my fault if I get fat. Classification as a disease does not change that. However, it may give doctors a little more lattitude for attempting to treat obesity. The rampant weight problem in the US is causing significant health costs, particularly in the long term. I've always found it odd that someone can be legally entered into treatment for anorexia against their wishes, but not for morbid obesity. In both cases, an unhealthy relationship with food is doing untold damage to the individual.0 -
But if taxes worked, wouldn't it be preferable to prevent the disease than to treat it, and pay higher health insurance premiums as a result? Did you read the World Health Organisation Bulletin I linked earlier? It suggests that taxes may have a positive effect on obesity incidence.Obesity isn't something that you catch one day and weight 22 stone the next.
...
It's my taxes on my hard earned wages that fund disability benefit because you spent too much time eating the wrong foods.
...
Generally is a disease is something where the sufferer has little or no control over. Obesity is self-induced.
I don't believe anyone can blame it on genetics. ...
-There are diseases that are slowly brought on over time.
-I'm with you on the taxes. i don't want new taxes. Unfortunately health premiums might go up a little to cover obesity if I'm being honest
-I don't think anyone is saying "genetically inevitable". Different people have different genetic predispositions. I agree with you that if they have those, they should be aware and CHOOSE to do something about it. It will be harder for some than others because of genetics but that's OK. That's no excuse. Nobody said things need to require equal effort.0 -
Meh. Something can be a disease AND self-inflicted. If I smoke and then get lung cancer, the lung cancer is a direct consequence of the smoking and it's still a disease. I personally don't think of being obese as a disease but I don't think it's ridiculous to consider it one.
Yes, but controlling the trigger is YOUR responsibility....yes?0 -
For ****'s sake. Can I say **** on mfp?
It makes sense to call it a disease on various levels. ESPECIALLY so public policy and health care decisions can be made.
Public policy?
Health care decisions?
Who makes these?0 -
A disease?
So does this mean I can call my boss tomorrow and say that I can't come in because I'm feeling especially fat this morning?0 -
Type II diabetes, heart disease, respiratory disease, etc. that stem from poor diet and eating to obesity are already diseases. Eating to obesity is generally a lifestyle choice, and the medical things that are caused by it are already diseases. Why do we need one more categorization of something as a disease?
It's like calling smoking a disease. Lung cancer is a disease, but smoking is a lifestyle choice.
As far as stigma, we already stigmatize alcoholism, smoking, drug addiction, etc. Is stigmatizing these things that cause harm to the body okay, but stigmatizing the overindulgence in food off limits? I mean, we are okay with drinking in moderation, taking medications, eating in moderation. It's when these things get out of hand that they should be stigmatized.
It is a very different thing to say the alcoholic is "gross" and to say that alcoholism is gross. You can feel very sorry for a person who is in the throes of alcoholism, care for that person, etc., and still be vocal about the harm that alcoholism causes. Ditto with overeating. Eating to the point of obesity isn't a good thing. It doesn't mean that I can't love and appreciate someone who is obese.0 -
I find it funny that people on here are saying "user pays" when it comes to taxing unhealthy foods, alcohol and cigs. You really think they're not gonna find a way to tax you for something next? We are ALL targets for taxing. It may not be you this week, but next week it will. That's why we have to stick together when it comes to decreasing taxes and learning to spend government money more wisely, instead of throwing it away and expecting us to pay for it. You think it won't affect you to tax the rich more or tax more for cigs, but you are obviously not thinking this through. You tax the rich more, therefore companies charge more for products to cover it, so they don't lose money. Your paycheck comes from the rich...You think you are going to get a raise when they need to save extra money? Think it through people...0
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I will say that I am very much for this, particularly from a public health perspective. Classifying obesity as an illness is (I believe) a great first step for us to start understanding this as a complex condition that requires a multifaceted approach for a long-term cure. The current cultural thinking of "stop eating so much, fatties" is easy to believe and (I'd argue) ties into the weight-cycling industry, but it's been horribly ineffective at actually treating the condition. I'm hoping this may mean more funding for interventions and studies that look at things like, say. the disproportionate burden of obesity on poorer folks.
tl:dr; You can continue to believe that obesity is a failure of character, but that hasn't been a good way to fix it.0 -
Wow a lot of people are missing a HUGE issue that is probably most an American problem. What about the numbers of kids who are obese now? If we classify this as a disease, and doctors can point out to parents before the kids have diabetes and heart problems that their weight is a problem - AS A MEDICAL ISSUE, might it not help with reducing childhood obesity? Also, what about the thousands of kids who are growing up obese or even those who are not but who are in homes with bad eating habits? If they hit adulthood and they want to lose weight, the classification of obesity as a disease will increase the resources they have to learn about healthy habits. I was in one of those homes. I was actually an underweight teen, but I had some horribly ingrained eating patterns and as an adult, when my metabolism slowed and I didn't change my eating or exercise habits (but I also didn't have to go to school every day nor did I have a PE class anymore), I quickly became overweight. Add a couple of pregnancies, toxemia, and weight gain from birth control products, and I was obese. I had no clue how to eat right, and I did not know what a portion size was. I didn't have a support system, so I didn't have any accountability even if I did try to lose weight. My doctors certainly never said it was bad. As a matter of fact, I had one doctor tell me that as long as I was comfortable with my weight and I didn't have any of the related diseases, then I was just fine. It wasn't until my dad got diabetes that I realized that I needed to do something different. And it has definitely been a huge learning experience! I did not know A LOT! And my parents and other family members didn't either, so they could not have taught me. Classifying obesity as a disease, at the very least, opens up the discussion and helps more people realize what is going on and how society has trained us to overeat and how we can re-teach ourselves and our children about proper eating habits. And look at the discussion here even; we are talking about it. Yes people have their opinions and some refuse to see anyone else's point of view. That's always true so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone here. But the real point is that people have started TALKING about it! Which is the first step to making changes.0
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Type II diabetes, heart disease, respiratory disease, etc. that stem from poor diet and eating to obesity are already diseases. Eating to obesity is generally a lifestyle choice, and the medical things that are caused by it are already diseases. Why do we need one more categorization of something as a disease?
I think it helps with prevention. For example on tax deductions (the rare person who can qualify), you are not allowed to deduct costs unless you have an additional associate health issues that the obesity is contributing to (e.g. hypertension).
I think with the universal health care coming it may affect policy with respect to prevention. This is particularly true of the youth (age 40 and less). Sometimes they are obese but haven't developed any of the health consequences yet.
In addition I've posted some other possible benefits in some previous posts.0
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