Weight Lifting Myths

Options
2»

Replies

  • ShaneT99
    ShaneT99 Posts: 278 Member
    Options

    Except after 90 degrees of bend, the muscles become inefficient, starting to enter their most lengthened state, therefore weakest (since muscles are strongest at mid length, and not completely shortened or lengthened), so the stress is then placed entirely on the ligaments in the knee. I would like to read the studies you are speaking of, since I am an Athletic Trainer and I do this everyday, and I work with Physical Therapists who also agree. More hip flexion is fine, to get a lower bend, but leave squatting to the floor to the Olympic weightlifters, who all have bad knees. The last thing the public needs ot be hearing is that they should squat to the floor. While it provides job security for me, it is not correct form.

    You are correct about the pelvic positioning, many kids go into full lumbar extension when the weight becomes heavy, and that leads to a whole different issue.

    And don't even get started on deadlifts, that is something people should not attempt without a certified personal trainer or strength coach.

    Two things...or maybe three.

    1) Admittedly, I don't have the studies I referenced handy. In fact, what I've read actually came from online articles referencing studies...and I've read so many articles related to health and fitness over the past three years that I really couldn't begin to tell you where I found them. They were probably bodybuilding articles. Those people are kind of crazy though, so maybe they shouldn't be taken too seriously.

    2) It wasn't really my intent to say that someone should squat to the floor. Heck, I'm not even physically capable of doing that without having something to hold onto to keep me from falling over backwards. If I tried it with a 200-300 pound bar on my back I would without a doubt hurt something. What I was suggesting...or at least intending to suggest...was that it's okay to go past 90 as long as you can do so and still keep your back in a proper alignment. For me that is about the point where my thighs are parallel to the floor (which is slightly past 90). If I try to go much lower than that my big belly gets in the way and my lower back starts to bend forward. I'm not a proponent of squatting to the floor, but I do believe the greater range of motion you can safely achieve the more benefit you get from the exercise.

    3) Deadlifts - I could be persuaded to agree with you. I do them but I must admit I've never been very comfortable about my form. Again, my belly gets in the way. As a result, I've never really gone very heavy with deadlifts (I think 255 may be the highest I've ever attempted, but it's usually in the 185 or lighter range where I'm more comfortable with my form). I've considered dropping them from my routine many times, but there aren't many exercises that will work your body like deadlifts do. At what cost, though, is the question I haven't been able to answer to myself. Squatting and picking stuff up off the floor is a common life task so the exercise definitely has benefits, but you can sure hurt yourself if you do it wrong.

    By the way, I'd appreciate your further input on this (especially on deadlifts). I feel like I know quite a lot about nutrition and fitness related topics, but I'm certainly open to learning more from people that know (and in fact want to do just that).
  • airellayi
    airellayi Posts: 14
    Options
    Yeah. I'm curious about the "proper" form too.
  • fullboost
    fullboost Posts: 53 Member
    Options
    Interesting read this as i'm in a similar position, i can't recommend this site enough though: www.musclehack.com
    One of the few genuine sites out there, interesting articles and arguements.
  • ShaneT99
    ShaneT99 Posts: 278 Member
    Options
    To the OP, I've not yet read it but I've heard great things about Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (2nd Edition). It's on my list of books to buy, but it might be worth you checking out.
  • david1956
    david1956 Posts: 190 Member
    Options
    Yeah. I'm curious about the "proper" form too.

    The guy in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF69K6awJh8 has pretty good form.

    The biggie is to maintain a straight back, looking continually ahead. And the bar should remain very close to your legs, in fact a good practice to learn it slowly is to let it actually brush down your thighs and then shin.

    The feeling is that as you lower the bar your butt is thrusting out to maintain the straight back.
  • ShaneT99
    ShaneT99 Posts: 278 Member
    Options
    I was looking for some other stuff today and came across this article by Alwyn Cosgrove. It addresses some of the issues we've discussed here directly (squatting past 90 degrees, keeping knees behind toes, etc.).

    Take a look.

    http://alwyncosgrove.com/2000/01/leg-training-myths/
  • scuba6randy
    scuba6randy Posts: 34 Member
    Options
    Thanks guys!
    If your main goal is to bulk up and not lose weight, do some research and find out your current calorie needs and increase that by 300 or so calories. You need a surplus to gain muscle, but much more than that will simply be stored as fat. Overweight people can gain muscle without this surplus because their body seeks out energy sources from stored fat. Leaner people can do this too, but the result is much slower because of homeostasis, the body is very adaptable but is very reluctant to certain changes that is sees as threatening to its survival.
    Thank you! But can you elaborate more on that.^

    How would MFP know if I was gaining muscle or fat?
  • scuba6randy
    scuba6randy Posts: 34 Member
    Options
    Our bodies tend to "hang on" to a certain percent of fat. This percentage is slightly different for everyone, but you can thank your ancestors, evolution, whatever for this, because food was not always readily available to them, and it's the body's way of survival, in case this ever happens. Your body needs 3 different types of calories to stay healthy, carbs, protein, and fats. When you are in a state of calorie deficiency your body breaks down stored fat for energy, but it can also break down hard earned muscle tissue for energy because it wants to retain this "extra fat reserve". When very overweight people go on a diet they can lose a lot of weight initially, because they are losing fat, water AND MUSCLE. Then when they return to eating normally they gain a LOT of weight back because they don't have the muscle to burn the calories any more. Which is why anyone trying to lose weight should at least do some moderate weight training, so they don't lose the muscle. Most body builders train in phases, the bulk up phase and the fat shedding phase. (calorie surplus, then calorie deficit phase) Depending on the individuals goals, these phases can be seasonal or every other month or even week. Not the answer most people really want to hear, is it?
    I'm not saying you can't build muscle without a calorie surplus. You CAN actually build a modest muscle amount while in a slight calorie deficit (and lose fat), but you have to make sure that your body isn't breaking down muscle for energy. Keep lifting those weights and stressing the muscle, eat plenty of protein throughout the day, and focus a good portion of carb intake right before and after workouts to make sure you have energy for them. Just keep in mind that your body may also recover from weight workouts a little slower too this way. In a calorie deficit state your body's cells are continuously looking for an energy source, and less worried about building muscle.
    You indicated that you wanted to bulk up fast and having a slight calorie surplus is the best way to do that. Keep your eye on the mirror, it'll tell you if you're gaining muscle or fat, most likely a bit of both (unfortunately). That's what makes this website great! Keep track of your calories, (every calorie), check the mirror, not the scales, if your not gaining fast enough increase calories, gaining too much fat- decrease. You may have to tweak it several times to get it right for you.
    Another word of advice: Keep a log of exactly how much weight you're lifting for every exercise. It sounds geeky and stupid, I know, but how else do you know if you're making gains. And if you continually (we all have off days) have a difficult time doing the same workout you did last time and resort to using less weight, then you are overtraining and need extra rest between your workouts. Listen to your body, it'll tell you what's going on.
    Let me know if you have more questions. Hope this clears thing up a little and helps.
  • cartermw
    cartermw Posts: 14
    Options
    I like 6 days a week 1 day off. Chest/tri, Back/bi, shoulders, then legs. Then start allover again mixing up the days. Pyramid up with weight. 3 sets 8 reps. Body builders @ my gym do this & so do I.

Categories