Obesity a disease?
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Wow a lot of people are missing a HUGE issue that is probably most an American problem. What about the numbers of kids who are obese now? If we classify this as a disease, and doctors can point out to parents before the kids have diabetes and heart problems that their weight is a problem - AS A MEDICAL ISSUE, might it not help with reducing childhood obesity? Also, what about the thousands of kids who are growing up obese or even those who are not but who are in homes with bad eating habits? If they hit adulthood and they want to lose weight, the classification of obesity as a disease will increase the resources they have to learn about healthy habits. I was in one of those homes. I was actually an underweight teen, but I had some horribly ingrained eating patterns and as an adult, when my metabolism slowed and I didn't change my eating or exercise habits (but I also didn't have to go to school every day nor did I have a PE class anymore), I quickly became overweight. Add a couple of pregnancies, toxemia, and weight gain from birth control products, and I was obese. I had no clue how to eat right, and I did not know what a portion size was. I didn't have a support system, so I didn't have any accountability even if I did try to lose weight. My doctors certainly never said it was bad. As a matter of fact, I had one doctor tell me that as long as I was comfortable with my weight and I didn't have any of the related diseases, then I was just fine. It wasn't until my dad got diabetes that I realized that I needed to do something different. And it has definitely been a huge learning experience! I did not know A LOT! And my parents and other family members didn't either, so they could not have taught me. Classifying obesity as a disease, at the very least, opens up the discussion and helps more people realize what is going on and how society has trained us to overeat and how we can re-teach ourselves and our children about proper eating habits. And look at the discussion here even; we are talking about it. Yes people have their opinions and some refuse to see anyone else's point of view. That's always true so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone here. But the real point is that people have started TALKING about it! Which is the first step to making changes.
First of all-- congrats on your weight loss thus far-- incredible progress!
Beyond that-- I'm calling shenanigans.
Have obese kids? Stop buying and serving them crap, and more importantly, turn off the freaking TV set, confiscate little junior's iPhone, iPad, iEverything, and kick their fannies outdoors to play. it's called parental responsibility.
Are there other issues-- "leptin resistance" et cetera-- sure, now and then, of course-- there is Cushings syndrome, metabolic disorders, thyroid conditions-- there are definitely occasional things beyond a person's control.
However, if anyone here would presume to say that is the norm, then I'm Lola Falana.
The point I was trying to make is not that the parents are doing anything good by having kids with obesity. I fully agree that parents should be helping kids learn about healthy eating and exercise. I am making those changes in my own family right now and my daughter is definitely thriving on it. With that said, I am talking more about the families that don't know how to eat right. The ones who won't eat right. The ones who don't teach their children anything about health. Once those kids grow up, they don't have any background to make healthy choices. They may not know how to access any resources. That is where it is our job as society to provide as much and as many resources as possible. We need to provide ways for people to learn healthy behaviors and to be a support system for one another. Putting people down is not helpful. We don't know how they got where they are, and we don't know what their background is. Yes, I found out how to use my resources and I found my own support system. Yes that stuff is out there, IF we know how to find it. But often we are talking about people who have lived their entire lives with little knowledge of how to access resources. Society must offer more resources and make them more readily available.
(This is true for any societal stigma, by the way. Obesity just happens to be the topic of today because of the AMA's classification.)0 -
I'm an MD, and here's my two cents worth:
I think of it more of a as a symptom of a disease, rather than a disease in and of itself. Examples of the causative disease might be eating disorders, thyroid disease, etc. Nutritional ignorance, corporate pressure to buy highly processed and addictive "food" and cultural factors play a big role, as well, and you might even call those diseases of our society.
Regardless of the cause, abdominal fat is very bioactive, releasing hormones and inflammatory compounds, which lead to greatly increased risk of cancer, heart disease, insulin resistance, etc.
I don't care how if a person sees themselves as "Big and beautiful", "Reubenesque", "Teddy Bear", or however you want to pretty it up. Obesity is a marker for poor health. My husband's ex-wife just died last year suddenly; she was well over 400 lbs in her mid-40's. Her live-in companion, who must be about 300 lbs and the same age, suffers from severe asthma and sleep apnea, and just was diagnosed with uterine cancer (the number one risk for this is obesity). Fat kills, no matter how you want to pretty it up.0 -
Time is money and effort to prepare is money though. It's the same with microwavable foods. When i buy healthy it is definitely cheaper but then I need to put in the time and effort to make the food (and the patience to wait) compared to fast food and microwavable food.
The way your argument would be valid is if you could just go shopping and put all the healthy foods you bought in a box and it came out prepared and tasty. Other than that, it is a matter of how much you value your time.
You have a very valid point, but it only works if you are actually taking time away from making money to prepare that food.
Nope, it still comes back to choices. If you want to eat affordable but still healthy you will make the choice to prepare ahead of time. I did this yesterday. We had baseball last night after work so we wouldn't have time to prepare a healthy meal, but guess what, I prepared it early. I came home at lunch, fried up some lean hamburger and made taco meat then went back to work. I could have stopped at the taco joint and bought taco's for the kids and a taco salad for myself but it wouldn't have been a healthy version and for the same money I was able to make enough for supper last night and lunch today.
Thing is, people will always make excuses but it is about choices.
Actually, thanks for the idea of preparing ahead of time and warming up. I don't always think of that.
As far as time/preparation = money...yes...one thing is if you are taking extra time where you could have made money. Another idea though is if you having a break is so valuable to you that you would be willing to pay money for it. maybe it allows you to recharge or sleep so you can do you main work better. Funny story is one time I spent like 5 hours on ebay trying to get a special deal on a Dyson vacuum cleaner...back when they were super expensive. In the end I only ended up saving $70 or so. I thought about it and I could have made more money just working an extra 5 hours...but I guess work is not as relaxing and fun as chasing a bargain.0 -
Wow a lot of people are missing a HUGE issue that is probably most an American problem. What about the numbers of kids who are obese now? If we classify this as a disease, and doctors can point out to parents before the kids have diabetes and heart problems that their weight is a problem - AS A MEDICAL ISSUE, might it not help with reducing childhood obesity? Also, what about the thousands of kids who are growing up obese or even those who are not but who are in homes with bad eating habits? If they hit adulthood and they want to lose weight, the classification of obesity as a disease will increase the resources they have to learn about healthy habits. I was in one of those homes. I was actually an underweight teen, but I had some horribly ingrained eating patterns and as an adult, when my metabolism slowed and I didn't change my eating or exercise habits (but I also didn't have to go to school every day nor did I have a PE class anymore), I quickly became overweight. Add a couple of pregnancies, toxemia, and weight gain from birth control products, and I was obese. I had no clue how to eat right, and I did not know what a portion size was. I didn't have a support system, so I didn't have any accountability even if I did try to lose weight. My doctors certainly never said it was bad. As a matter of fact, I had one doctor tell me that as long as I was comfortable with my weight and I didn't have any of the related diseases, then I was just fine. It wasn't until my dad got diabetes that I realized that I needed to do something different. And it has definitely been a huge learning experience! I did not know A LOT! And my parents and other family members didn't either, so they could not have taught me. Classifying obesity as a disease, at the very least, opens up the discussion and helps more people realize what is going on and how society has trained us to overeat and how we can re-teach ourselves and our children about proper eating habits. And look at the discussion here even; we are talking about it. Yes people have their opinions and some refuse to see anyone else's point of view. That's always true so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone here. But the real point is that people have started TALKING about it! Which is the first step to making changes.
First of all-- congrats on your weight loss thus far-- incredible progress!
Beyond that-- I'm calling shenanigans.
Have obese kids? Stop buying and serving them crap, and more importantly, turn off the freaking TV set, confiscate little junior's iPhone, iPad, iEverything, and kick their fannies outdoors to play. it's called parental responsibility.
Are there other issues-- "leptin resistance" et cetera-- sure, now and then, of course-- there is Cushings syndrome, metabolic disorders, thyroid conditions-- there are definitely occasional things beyond a person's control.
However, if anyone here would presume to say that is the norm, then I'm Lola Falana.
The point I was trying to make is not that the parents are doing anything good by having kids with obesity. I fully agree that parents should be helping kids learn about healthy eating and exercise. I am making those changes in my own family right now and my daughter is definitely thriving on it. With that said, I am talking more about the families that don't know how to eat right. The ones who won't eat right. The ones who don't teach their children anything about health. Once those kids grow up, they don't have any background to make healthy choices. They may not know how to access any resources. That is where it is our job as society to provide as much and as many resources as possible. We need to provide ways for people to learn healthy behaviors and to be a support system for one another. Putting people down is not helpful. We don't know how they got where they are, and we don't know what their background is. Yes, I found out how to use my resources and I found my own support system. Yes that stuff is out there, IF we know how to find it. But often we are talking about people who have lived their entire lives with little knowledge of how to access resources. Society must offer more resources and make them more readily available.
(This is true for any societal stigma, by the way. Obesity just happens to be the topic of today because of the AMA's classification.)
Agreed-- topic of the day--
Disagreed that people are ignorant on how to eat. It doesn't take a genius to know that an apple is better for you than an Oreo, nor a carrot stick better than a French fry.
I realize the ease of the food we buy in our crazy society certainly lends to the crap we eat-- it's a lot easier, for example, to rustle up a frozen dinner or box of Hamburger Helper than shop and cook fresh food.
But, I don't think there's a mother or caregiver alive who didn't attend school somewhere, at some point, that didn't learn the good ol' USDA pyramid about the benefits of fresh fruits and vegetables, lean meat, blah, blah, blah--
Ignorance, in my opinion, should not be an excuse. This is not rocket science.
I mean no disrespect to you. Again, I applaud the changes you've made in your life and for your children-- couldn't be more impressed.0 -
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
OH MY !!! I am taking this one. There is a correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food not because of price but because of attitude and choices. Yes, ATTITUDE and CHOICES. There is also a correlation between the percentage of smokers in the lower income bracket versus middle income or them evil rich fat cats. What is the deal there? Again, attitude and choices.
Also, to your second point about getting more food at a fast food place for $20, you need to bounce your head on a table for a little while and re-think what you wrote. How about instead of buying a prepared salad, rotisserie chick and a little tub of dressing you buy a head of lettuce, then chop it up, buy a whole chicken or frozen chicken breasts and cook them ahead of time on the grill, then also buy a bottle of dressing. I can guarantee you that is a lot less than $20 and will feed a family of 4 for at least 2 meals if they are eating proper portions. It is all about preparedness and CHOICES!!!!
Glad I'm not the only one who was like 'huh?' lol. Actually though, I can get a deli rotisserie chix and a prepared salad for under $10 and feed my family of five with it-cheaper than going to fast food, plus there will be leftovers
But yeah, a raw roaster chicken is like $5 and you can throw it in a crockpot with salt and pepper. Salad fixings are under $5 too, especially if you have an Aldi or Save a Lot type store nearby (you can also get salad dressing at most dollar stores or Dollar General). Yes, there's a small amount of people who live in areas where a grocery store isn't easily accessible but for many of us that's not an issue. I live in a college town and even the college kids have figured it out-they walk 1-2 miles (even in MI winters) with their 'borrowed' shopping carts, hauling their groceries down the sidewalk :laugh: 0 -
The salad and chicken comment was a comparison of speed and convenience with regards to buying fresh food from a supermarket (that didn't require preparation) and buying fast food from a fast food joint. Did you miss that point?
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
OH MY !!! I am taking this one. There is a correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food not because of price but because of attitude and choices. Yes, ATTITUDE and CHOICES. There is also a correlation between the percentage of smokers in the lower income bracket versus middle income or them evil rich fat cats. What is the deal there? Again, attitude and choices.
Also, to your second point about getting more food at a fast food place for $20, you need to bounce your head on a table for a little while and re-think what you wrote. How about instead of buying a prepared salad, rotisserie chick and a little tub of dressing you buy a head of lettuce, then chop it up, buy a whole chicken or frozen chicken breasts and cook them ahead of time on the grill, then also buy a bottle of dressing. I can guarantee you that is a lot less than $20 and will feed a family of 4 for at least 2 meals if they are eating proper portions. It is all about preparedness and CHOICES!!!!
How would you know that the correlation between income and fast food is attitude? Why are you yelling for that matter? Can you provide some evidence or is it just your opinion? So far I've seen nothing but opinion. I would like to see a little evidence. At least I provided that courtesy when I voiced my opinion.
I certainly feel like bouncing my head against a table but not for the reasons you are suggesting.
Such an interesting debate, and I usually don't jump in. I have to admit that I did not read the article, but from my experience as a middle class person living in an urban area for my entire life, I have taken for granted certain things i.e. access to markets with fresh food, meat, produce, parks and gyms etc.
There are many impoverished, undereducated people in our society who do not have access to the many things that most of us take for granted. They don't have a grocery store in their neighborhood but they have many convenience stores and fast food joints, it is unsafe to exercise outdoors, and they may not have proper conditions for cooking at home. Sure they are making choices but perhaps with more education on obesity, exercise and proper nutritio they can be informed to make better choices.0 -
There are many impoverished, undereducated people in our society who do not have access to the many things that most of us take for granted. They don't have a grocery store in their neighborhood but they have many convenience stores and fast food joints, it is unsafe to exercise outdoors, and they may not have proper conditions for cooking at home.
This is an important point that seems to be overlooked and/or ignored by many people.0 -
^^rhisI don't see a problem with calling obesity a disease and I certainly don't see a problem with heavy taxes on certain foods. I feel the same way about booze and cigs. User pays...
So I have to pay more because someone can't control themselves?
People get fat off of 'health' foods as well.0 -
I am obese and I hate that they call it a disease!! its not a disease I just couldn't keep the fork out of my mouth or bother to exercise or measure my food and just ate a TON of junk food and fast food.0
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I love that you're owning it. When I first joined this site in 2008, I ruffled feathers by daring to suggest that we needed to stop making excuses...own up to why we had gained weight, and that we needed to take responsibility for correcting it.
Holy Hannah, you'd have thought I told people they were ugly and their mama never loved 'em.
I think only by owning it can we truly change it.
Way to go.0 -
I love that you're owning it. When I first joined this site in 2008, I ruffled feathers by daring to suggest that we needed to stop making excuses...own up to why we had gained weight, and that we needed to take responsibility for correcting it.
Holy Hannah, you'd have thought I told people they were ugly and their mama never loved 'em.
I think only by owning it can we truly change it.
Way to go.
thanks!
Until I owned up for it this year, I was unable to really concentrate on making myself healthy. I always felt like I was trying to keep myself from life, when really I am saving myself to live a long life!!
I know how you feel about the people freaking out, people don't wish to own up to their issues. SO they blame others or other things that caused them. Really its quite comical to see people blame Mcdonalds or Burger King for getting them fat...its like ahhh no you ate that food knowing what the calories were as they post them right beside the food picture or after the listed item.. I mean everyone looks for an excuse to make themselves feel better or a need to label something to make them feel in control...0 -
I love that you're owning it. When I first joined this site in 2008, I ruffled feathers by daring to suggest that we needed to stop making excuses...own up to why we had gained weight, and that we needed to take responsibility for correcting it.
Holy Hannah, you'd have thought I told people they were ugly and their mama never loved 'em.
I think only by owning it can we truly change it.
Way to go.
thanks!
Until I owned up for it this year, I was unable to really concentrate on making myself healthy. I always felt like I was trying to keep myself from life, when really I am saving myself to live a long life!!
I know how you feel about the people freaking out, people don't wish to own up to their issues. SO they blame others or other things that caused them. Really its quite comical to see people blame Mcdonalds or Burger King for getting them fat...its like ahhh no you ate that food knowing what the calories were as they post them right beside the food picture or after the listed item.. I mean everyone looks for an excuse to make themselves feel better or a need to label something to make them feel in control...
Ahhh-- love it!
Best to you on your continued journey!0 -
The salad and chicken comment was a comparison of speed and convenience with regards to buying fresh food from a supermarket (that didn't require preparation) and buying fast food from a fast food joint. Did you miss that point?
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
OH MY !!! I am taking this one. There is a correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food not because of price but because of attitude and choices. Yes, ATTITUDE and CHOICES. There is also a correlation between the percentage of smokers in the lower income bracket versus middle income or them evil rich fat cats. What is the deal there? Again, attitude and choices.
Also, to your second point about getting more food at a fast food place for $20, you need to bounce your head on a table for a little while and re-think what you wrote. How about instead of buying a prepared salad, rotisserie chick and a little tub of dressing you buy a head of lettuce, then chop it up, buy a whole chicken or frozen chicken breasts and cook them ahead of time on the grill, then also buy a bottle of dressing. I can guarantee you that is a lot less than $20 and will feed a family of 4 for at least 2 meals if they are eating proper portions. It is all about preparedness and CHOICES!!!!
How would you know that the correlation between income and fast food is attitude? Why are you yelling for that matter? Can you provide some evidence or is it just your opinion? So far I've seen nothing but opinion. I would like to see a little evidence. At least I provided that courtesy when I voiced my opinion.
I certainly feel like bouncing my head against a table but not for the reasons you are suggesting.
Such an interesting debate, and I usually don't jump in. I have to admit that I did not read the article, but from my experience as a middle class person living in an urban area for my entire life, I have taken for granted certain things i.e. access to markets with fresh food, meat, produce, parks and gyms etc.
There are many impoverished, undereducated people in our society who do not have access to the many things that most of us take for granted. They don't have a grocery store in their neighborhood but they have many convenience stores and fast food joints, it is unsafe to exercise outdoors, and they may not have proper conditions for cooking at home. Sure they are making choices but perhaps with more education on obesity, exercise and proper nutritio they can be informed to make better choices.
Food deserts, they call them. If I remember correctly, there are like 14 million American who live in food deserts. That's a lot of people who don't have the option of rotisserie chicken and prepared salad from their local grocery store. What they do have is taco bell and KFC and McDonalds and a gas station within walking distance of their home. Unless they have time and money to hop a bus or taxi to another neighborhood. So, yeah, they may know that a bucket of tacos isn't as healthy for their families as rotisserie chicken and leafy greens, but I think its unfair to judge unless you're right there next to them. Or they may not know.0 -
Such an interesting debate, and I usually don't jump in. I have to admit that I did not read the article, but from my experience as a middle class person living in an urban area for my entire life, I have taken for granted certain things i.e. access to markets with fresh food, meat, produce, parks and gyms etc.
There are many impoverished, undereducated people in our society who do not have access to the many things that most of us take for granted. They don't have a grocery store in their neighborhood but they have many convenience stores and fast food joints, it is unsafe to exercise outdoors, and they may not have proper conditions for cooking at home. Sure they are making choices but perhaps with more education on obesity, exercise and proper nutritio they can be informed to make better choices.
But how is labeling obesity as a disease going to really change a person's life, who lives in the conditions you describe? They will still have to shop at the convenience stores and fast food places, where really there isn't going to be healthy choices regardless if they now 'know better', due to a doctor now telling them they have a disease and giving them some tips on nutrition and exercise. Also, they're still living in the dangerous area so as far as exercise goes the doctor will have to give them tips on indoor type exercises, which he may or may not do.
Not trying to be snarky, but I'm really not understanding how labeling obesity as a disease would actually change the situation you described?0 -
I gotta say this - I am obese and I raised my 2 kids and they are 26 and 24 years old and they are slim and healthy. My family is rather obese, probably due to bad eating choices. One thing that I think saved my kids - I didn't make them eat everything on their plate, my parents were of the "eat all on your plate - there are kids starving in China" but I chose NOT to force my kids to eat. now we didn't necessarily eat dietetic, but i just didn't force food on them. that might have been a key. I actually cannnot pinpoint on what exactly made them escape the fact that a lot of families are fat, all of them - because they all induldge in bad eating habits, and if the whole family is eating fried food all the time, the kids will naturally eat more fried food, because they have to eat what the mom makes them eat. so whatever happened, my kids so slim and healthy, no eating disorders, they escaped being fat! thats probably the best thing I did for them as their mom.0
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