Reconsidering My Vegetarian Diet...
davidrapp5
Posts: 14
Good morning everyone...
So, I've been a vegetarian for about the last year and a half, and while I've reaped the benefits of not having red meat, chicken, or pork (had fish once in a while, on big occasions), and my wallet has greatly enjoyed my not eating fast food in almost two years, I've been reconsidering whether it's really the best approach to losing weight.
I've been reading "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes, a book my doctor recommended to me, and it went into great detail of the effects of carbohydrates on insulin production and how insulin essentially blocks the body from using fat reserves by only setting up the body for carb use. It also went into the details of how several doctors and physician researchers have expressed the recommendation (successfully) of low-carb diets and stressing lean meats and greens.
With that in mind, I'm considering giving up the vegetarian diet in lieu of having fish and chicken a little more often, while drastically cutting down on grains and carbs. I've heard about the paleo diet and I'm very intrigued by it, but I don't know if I can afford a diet like that.
Has anyone else taken a step like this? Taubes' argument's sound sensible, but it feels like a big jump eating meats again.
So, I've been a vegetarian for about the last year and a half, and while I've reaped the benefits of not having red meat, chicken, or pork (had fish once in a while, on big occasions), and my wallet has greatly enjoyed my not eating fast food in almost two years, I've been reconsidering whether it's really the best approach to losing weight.
I've been reading "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes, a book my doctor recommended to me, and it went into great detail of the effects of carbohydrates on insulin production and how insulin essentially blocks the body from using fat reserves by only setting up the body for carb use. It also went into the details of how several doctors and physician researchers have expressed the recommendation (successfully) of low-carb diets and stressing lean meats and greens.
With that in mind, I'm considering giving up the vegetarian diet in lieu of having fish and chicken a little more often, while drastically cutting down on grains and carbs. I've heard about the paleo diet and I'm very intrigued by it, but I don't know if I can afford a diet like that.
Has anyone else taken a step like this? Taubes' argument's sound sensible, but it feels like a big jump eating meats again.
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Replies
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It is a big switch and a change in philosophy.
You might want to read Nina Planck's 'Real Food'. Slightly different than Taubs (but not incompatible) and she began as a vegetarian.0 -
It's whatever you want to do. I manage to hit 40-30-30 on a vegetarian diet and I've even done keto on a vegan diet. It's possible, but not necessary.0
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Why did you become vegetarian in the first place? If it was for health, know that you can be healthy on a different diet. You can also be healthy on your veg diet too. I'm a vegan for ethical reasons, so even though I do reap the health benefits, I am motivated to stick to the diet because of the ethics.
I find that any time I read any well-written "extreme" diet advice, whether from the paleo side or the vegan side (Eat to Live, Engine 2, Forks Over Knives, etc...) it does seem rather convincing. The problem is, nutrition is a tricky thing, and people have evidence for and against a variety of diets. I'd say do what works for you. If you want to stick to the veg*n diet, I like the dieticians Jack Norris and Virginia Messina for my nutrition advice. They wrote Vegan for Life, a guidebook for vegan nutrition, and they both blog. Their approach is more moderate and they don't try to present conjecture as fact.
Good luck with your journey!0 -
To each his own. As for me, I eat at least a little of everything, but some things, like red meat I eat very seldom. The thing that most diets have in common is the word "no" followed by a food or food type.0
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Think about why you became vegetarian. The animal welfare issues haven't changed. The animals you eat (unless you raise them yourself or buy very carefully) still are pumped full of antibiotics and live drastically reduced life spans in often awful conditions. And as for the abbatoirs? *shudder*
Edited to add: my brother in law is paleo and lent me the 'Why We Get Fat' book. I got as far as realising that I had to eat meat and didn't bother reading the rest. I'm fat because I ate more than I exercised away. The only way I would ever eat meat again was if we had some kind of Walking Dead scenario and my dogs caught me a wild rabbit or something that was eating grass one minute and didn't even know what happened. My brother in law has lost a lot of weight and reckons his allergies have decreased, but he also took up a pretty extreme fitness regime so that could account for the weight loss/ muscle increase.0 -
Humans have canine teeth for a reason. Use them. :happy:
Unless you have some strict moral, social or religious keeping you from eating meats, then why not? There are plenty of grass-fed, free-range, organic options out there for meats if you are worried about chemicals.
Maybe you should explore Paleo or Primal as an option.
ETA: Plus, just think about all the thousands of plants that are senselessly murdered to make your salads! THE HORROR!0 -
I'm skeptical of diets that frame carbohydrates as bad or as preventing weight loss. (It's a good idea to look at who funds those studies.)
I'm vegan for ethical reasons, so that colors my understanding, but since going vegan, I've been steadily losing weight, mostly body fat. My son, who is an omni and loves convenience food, has been losing weight steadily by counting calories. While I do think that calories in vs. calories out is the key math in losing weight, each person has to find the diet that helps them healthily eat the desired calories without being hungry or feeling deprived and while getting adequate nutrition.0 -
Awe poor fish and chickens...Just cause they don't have cute baby cow eyes.
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Arrogant Worms - Carrot Juice is Murder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM
Listen up brothers and sisters,
come hear my desperate tale.
I speak of our friends of nature,
trapped in the dirt like a jail.
Vegetables live in oppression,
served on our tables each night.
This killing of veggies is madness,
I say we take up the fight.
Salads are only for murderers,
coleslaw's a fascist regime.
Don't think that they don't have feelings,
just cause a radish can't scream.
Chorus:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)
I saw a man eating celery,
so I beat him black and blue.
If he ever touches a sprout again,
I'll bite him clean in two.
I'm a political prisoner,
trapped in a windowless cage.
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
by killing five men in a rage
I told the judge when he sentenced me,
This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again
just to save one more cauliflower
Chorus
How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccoli's bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stir fry are sealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
How do you think that feels? (leave them out in the field)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your composts are graves)
It's time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a spade.....0 -
From the sounds of it you went vegetarian for weightloss? I haven't heard of anyone doing that. If that was your only reason for becoming vegetarian that's kind of dumb because a generic vegetarian diet isn't going to make someone magically lose weight. I'm vegetarian and losing weight. It wasn't my reason for becoming vegetarian. Weightloss is calories in, calories out. Of course, you can be healthier eating better foods than bad foods...
btw paleo is a fad like adkins, or any other diet out there, we aren't paleo man anymore, we don't need to eat like that. Not to mention there is no such thing as eating paleo as paleo man didn't have a whole foods to shop at and we've bred our plants so much that many of the plants we eat now were once something we could not eat or did not eat or didn't exist altogether.0 -
Humans have canine teeth for a reason. Use them. :happy:
Unless you have some strict moral, social or religious keeping you from eating meats, then why not? There are plenty of grass-fed, free-range, organic options out there for meats if you are worried about chemicals.
Maybe you should explore Paleo or Primal as an option.
ETA: Plus, just think about all the thousands of plants that are senselessly murdered to make your salads! THE HORROR!
Humans have a conscience for a reason too :flowerforyou:0 -
I find that any time I read any well-written "extreme" diet advice, whether from the paleo side or the vegan side (Eat to Live,
Yeah i started this diet with Eat to Live, but decided it was too strict, and by my adding a little meat and cereal i am fine.
I think you get nutrients from chicken and fish which are good for you and me. So i say it is ok if you want to go that way.0 -
Humans have canine teeth for a reason. Use them. :happy:
Unless you have some strict moral, social or religious keeping you from eating meats, then why not? There are plenty of grass-fed, free-range, organic options out there for meats if you are worried about chemicals.
Maybe you should explore Paleo or Primal as an option.
ETA: Plus, just think about all the thousands of plants that are senselessly murdered to make your salads! THE HORROR!
Humans have a conscience for a reason too :flowerforyou:
Gorillas have huge canines but are vegan all but for a few ants. Canines in the case of apes are more to do with defense and in the case of humans; a throw back to our ancestors. Time to evolve
To the original poster: you can be perfectly healthy and build any composition you choose on Omnivore, Vegetarian or whatever diet you choose providing you get your macros right.0 -
Check out "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" http://www.amazon.com/dp/0983490708
I've been "high fat/low carb" for a few months now and shed nearly 40lbs doing almost nothing.
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/faq covers the bases pretty well as well.0 -
I lose weight just fine on a vegetarian diet. And am very healthy.
It isn't for everyone, but if that's your sole reason for changing, it's silly.
Also, this.From the sounds of it you went vegetarian for weightloss? I haven't heard of anyone doing that. If that was your only reason for becoming vegetarian that's kind of dumb because a generic vegetarian diet isn't going to make someone magically lose weight.
If your goal is simply to lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn. Period.0 -
Why did you become a vegetarian? If it was strictly because you thought it would be healthier than continue with whatever diet you choose. If you went vegetarian for ethical, religious or personal beliefs, how have those changed now?
I'm vegetarian. Not because I think it's a healthier diet because it isn't. It can be, but it might not be. Any diet can be healthy... just as any diet can be unhealthy.
And for the poster who said we have canines for a reason... we also have the power to choose. Our canines are smaller than other animals. We don't NEED meat. We can function just fine without it with proper meal planning to ensure proper nutrition.0 -
If you became vegetarian purely for health/weight loss reasons then cutting meat/fish from the diet is not necessary. If you have moral/religious/ethical reasons then that's obviously completely different.
There is no reason to exclude any food groups to be healthy and lose weight unless you have a medical reason for doing so, be that meat, dairy, grains, sugar, etc. etc.0 -
When I reconsidered my vegetarian diet, I chose to go vegan. I never did lose weight just by changing to either vegetarian or vegan. I had to watch portion size just like everyone else. I also had to increase my exercise. However, one book that helped me take more control of my eating was a book entitled Salt Sugar Fat by Michael Moss. Very interesting read. Good luck on your journey.0
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Of course we have canines for a reason - piercing beer cans! (vegan beer of course) - so use them!0
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Honestly, you can find books and studies and doctors that are proponents of really any diet.
My doctor and the doctor of another lady at my work both recommend a plant-based diet with minimal meat and dairy for sustained health.
As far as weight loss is concerned, you can eat **** on any diet (vegetarian, low-carb, etc.) just like you can eat healthy on any diet. I am vegan and most of my meals consist largely of fruits and veggies, with protein sources like beans, tofu, tempeh, hummus, etc. mixed in there.
However, I could also eat processed breads and pastas and oreos all day and still technically be "vegan" while doing nothing for my weightloss/fitness goals.
You just have to figure out what's best for YOU and make healthy choices every day. I would suggest looking in to some further literature though on plant-based diets and other lifestyles so you can see there are arguments as convincing as the one you read for really any of them.0 -
If you became vegetarian purely for health/weight loss reasons then cutting meat/fish from the diet is not necessary. If you have moral/religious/ethical reasons then that's obviously completely different.
There is no reason to exclude any food groups to be healthy and lose weight unless you have a medical reason for doing so, be that meat, dairy, grains, sugar, etc. etc.
^^^^ is on the money.
I thought Taubes' book was interesting but it is essentially an unsupported hypothesis / polemic. I think it is pertinent for people who have unidentified insulin resistance / syndrome X and will certainly help them. The majority of people do not and it therefore loses its value in this regard.
I would suggest keeping the same calorie level which you found success with on your vegetarian diet and then adding in or taking away new food items from your diet to see how you feel and how you progress.
Really the perfect diet is quite personal to you.0 -
I am skeptical that a vegetarian diet will help you lose weight. Unless your macros are adjusted accordingly. I know many vegetarians, and they are all big people.. as you know a vegetarians can have cake, cookies, candy, pop, etc etc.... I don't think this is a valid weight loss diet IMO.0
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I respect vegetarians for their choice, but when it comes to health I believe they're blaming the wrong thing. Meat isn't the problem, it's the over abundance of processed grains, sugars and fake foods that we over eat on and get no nutrition from.0
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I would say that you should eat in such a way that you feel healthy. You don't have to subscribe to any "diet" in an all-or-nothing fashion. Your body will guide you into what you should and should not eliminate.0
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Obviously, it wasn't just to lose weight. Part of it was to support my wife while she became one, and another part was to challenge myself to see if I could do it. The animal-rights aspect is there, but it's not really governing anything. But now that I've been sticking to it for a year and a half and the wife is going to be the ex-wife, I'm just questioning why I'm still doing it. I might still stick to it, but I miss having fish or chicken once in a while and I might bring those back. The low-carb part makes sense, and it's worth a try to see if it makes a difference.
The scientist in me is telling me to rule stuff out. Sure, since I've started the diet, I've lost a pretty significant amount. But I've also started working out again, I haven't had burger fast food (still the occasional veggie sub or pizza) in almost two years, and I've made an effort to control portions. I wonder if it isn't those contributing to the weight loss instead of just the change in diet.
But that's the point that I'm getting from Taubes' book: it isn't just calories-in/calories-out, it's also a matter of WHAT you're eating, not just how much. And considering I'm still sitting around 290-300 lbs. after two years (I was around 320 when I started), I'm looking at anything that will help break that.0 -
Humans have canine teeth for a reason. Use them. :happy:
Unless you have some strict moral, social or religious keeping you from eating meats, then why not? There are plenty of grass-fed, free-range, organic options out there for meats if you are worried about chemicals.
Maybe you should explore Paleo or Primal as an option.
ETA: Plus, just think about all the thousands of plants that are senselessly murdered to make your salads! THE HORROR!
Humans have a conscience for a reason too :flowerforyou:
Yeah, because we have too much free time.0 -
David....wow you sound a lot like me..I am 60 years old and have had type 2 diabetes since Jan 2005.... I have changed diets so many times....every time i watch a new video, i'd change to that diet...i did vegetarian and in the first 2 weeks i lost 29 pounds..... then i got like you and said i would add some chicken fish and turkey.....lean meats right??? my blood sugar started going back up from eating the animal fat....i went on vegetarian adn my blood sugar has come from 300 down to like 77 and 74 yesterday eating vegetarian...
i was eating 20 grams of carbs a day thinking carbs were the devil.....i am now eating 180 grams of carbs a day and i feel great...my blood sugar is getting so low taht i will have to call doctor and lower my meds...
the last time i started vegetarian i had blood work done and my doctor acussed me of seeing another doctor...my numbers from full blood work amazed him...while i was on the low carb diet the numbers were stilll bad...lots of fat in your system...i think to do low carb right you have to do low carb high fat.... that is the way it works.....
i have changed so many times but in 4 weeks i have lost 49 pounds...it is amazing....
i dont know if you are dealing with any medical issues or how big you were....i am a big guy and have a lot of weight to lose so that 49 pounds wasnt that amazing...
my doctor who has treated me since Jan of 2005 for diabetes begged me to keep eating the vegetarian diet....it is going to save my life...i might miss the meats a little but i would my living a lot more...it is not a moral issue with me....i think God put certain animals on this earth for us to eat....but as far as being vegetarian, im doing it to live...to get healthy.....
and you still got to be careful...you cant eat a bunch of crap....you got to be smart.....
hope you find the plan that works the best for you...we are all different and our bodies are all different...
have fun...live life!0 -
Obviously, it wasn't just to lose weight. Part of it was to support my wife while she became one, and another part was to challenge myself to see if I could do it. The animal-rights aspect is there, but it's not really governing anything. But now that I've been sticking to it for a year and a half and the wife is going to be the ex-wife, I'm just questioning why I'm still doing it. I might still stick to it, but I miss having fish or chicken once in a while and I might bring those back. The low-carb part makes sense, and it's worth a try to see if it makes a difference.
The scientist in me is telling me to rule stuff out. Sure, since I've started the diet, I've lost a pretty significant amount. But I've also started working out again, I haven't had burger fast food (still the occasional veggie sub or pizza) in almost two years, and I've made an effort to control portions. I wonder if it isn't those contributing to the weight loss instead of just the change in diet.
But that's the point that I'm getting from Taubes' book: it isn't just calories-in/calories-out, it's also a matter of WHAT you're eating, not just how much. And considering I'm still sitting around 290-300 lbs. after two years (I was around 320 when I started), I'm looking at anything that will help break that.
So some thoughts, because I tend to think the vegetarian/vegan/carnivore thing is dumb.
Add some foods in, see how you feel and go from there. 20-30 pounds in two years isn't bad, but you could do a lot better. It's important to note you didn't increase weight, which is good. Why not just throw out the silly "can't have X food" and eat sensibly. A little meat, a lot of vegetables, grains if they work for you, and when they're appropriate.
As for the ethical reasons, people don't like to talk about how many animals are literally torn apart during vegetable harvesting. You can buy ethically grown and killed meat, so don't let that be a perceived obstacle.0 -
Not every vegetarian is vegetarian because he or she believes meat is unhealthy.I respect vegetarians for their choice, but when it comes to health I believe they're blaming the wrong thing. Meat isn't the problem, it's the over abundance of processed grains, sugars and fake foods that we over eat on and get no nutrition from.0 -
I know many vegetarians who are healthy weights. And I know many meat-eaters who are very overweight.I am skeptical that a vegetarian diet will help you lose weight. Unless your macros are adjusted accordingly. I know many vegetarians, and they are all big people.. as you know a vegetarians can have cake, cookies, candy, pop, etc etc.... I don't think this is a valid weight loss diet IMO.
*shrug*0
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