Reconsidering My Vegetarian Diet...

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  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    If you became vegetarian purely for health/weight loss reasons then cutting meat/fish from the diet is not necessary. If you have moral/religious/ethical reasons then that's obviously completely different.

    There is no reason to exclude any food groups to be healthy and lose weight unless you have a medical reason for doing so, be that meat, dairy, grains, sugar, etc. etc.

    ^^^^ is on the money.

    I thought Taubes' book was interesting but it is essentially an unsupported hypothesis / polemic. I think it is pertinent for people who have unidentified insulin resistance / syndrome X and will certainly help them. The majority of people do not and it therefore loses its value in this regard.

    I would suggest keeping the same calorie level which you found success with on your vegetarian diet and then adding in or taking away new food items from your diet to see how you feel and how you progress.

    Really the perfect diet is quite personal to you.
  • jennaworksout
    jennaworksout Posts: 1,739 Member
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    I am skeptical that a vegetarian diet will help you lose weight. Unless your macros are adjusted accordingly. I know many vegetarians, and they are all big people.. as you know a vegetarians can have cake, cookies, candy, pop, etc etc.... I don't think this is a valid weight loss diet IMO.
  • Frank_Just_Frank
    Frank_Just_Frank Posts: 454 Member
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    I respect vegetarians for their choice, but when it comes to health I believe they're blaming the wrong thing. Meat isn't the problem, it's the over abundance of processed grains, sugars and fake foods that we over eat on and get no nutrition from.
  • Some_Watery_Tart
    Some_Watery_Tart Posts: 2,250 Member
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    I would say that you should eat in such a way that you feel healthy. You don't have to subscribe to any "diet" in an all-or-nothing fashion. Your body will guide you into what you should and should not eliminate.
  • davidrapp5
    davidrapp5 Posts: 14
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    Obviously, it wasn't just to lose weight. Part of it was to support my wife while she became one, and another part was to challenge myself to see if I could do it. The animal-rights aspect is there, but it's not really governing anything. But now that I've been sticking to it for a year and a half and the wife is going to be the ex-wife, I'm just questioning why I'm still doing it. I might still stick to it, but I miss having fish or chicken once in a while and I might bring those back. The low-carb part makes sense, and it's worth a try to see if it makes a difference.

    The scientist in me is telling me to rule stuff out. Sure, since I've started the diet, I've lost a pretty significant amount. But I've also started working out again, I haven't had burger fast food (still the occasional veggie sub or pizza) in almost two years, and I've made an effort to control portions. I wonder if it isn't those contributing to the weight loss instead of just the change in diet.

    But that's the point that I'm getting from Taubes' book: it isn't just calories-in/calories-out, it's also a matter of WHAT you're eating, not just how much. And considering I'm still sitting around 290-300 lbs. after two years (I was around 320 when I started), I'm looking at anything that will help break that.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Humans have canine teeth for a reason. Use them. :happy:

    Unless you have some strict moral, social or religious keeping you from eating meats, then why not? There are plenty of grass-fed, free-range, organic options out there for meats if you are worried about chemicals.

    Maybe you should explore Paleo or Primal as an option.

    ETA: Plus, just think about all the thousands of plants that are senselessly murdered to make your salads! THE HORROR!

    Humans have a conscience for a reason too :flowerforyou:

    Yeah, because we have too much free time.
  • willnorton
    willnorton Posts: 995 Member
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    David....wow you sound a lot like me..I am 60 years old and have had type 2 diabetes since Jan 2005.... I have changed diets so many times....every time i watch a new video, i'd change to that diet...i did vegetarian and in the first 2 weeks i lost 29 pounds..... then i got like you and said i would add some chicken fish and turkey.....lean meats right??? my blood sugar started going back up from eating the animal fat....i went on vegetarian adn my blood sugar has come from 300 down to like 77 and 74 yesterday eating vegetarian...
    i was eating 20 grams of carbs a day thinking carbs were the devil.....i am now eating 180 grams of carbs a day and i feel great...my blood sugar is getting so low taht i will have to call doctor and lower my meds...

    the last time i started vegetarian i had blood work done and my doctor acussed me of seeing another doctor...my numbers from full blood work amazed him...while i was on the low carb diet the numbers were stilll bad...lots of fat in your system...i think to do low carb right you have to do low carb high fat.... that is the way it works.....

    i have changed so many times but in 4 weeks i have lost 49 pounds...it is amazing....

    i dont know if you are dealing with any medical issues or how big you were....i am a big guy and have a lot of weight to lose so that 49 pounds wasnt that amazing...
    my doctor who has treated me since Jan of 2005 for diabetes begged me to keep eating the vegetarian diet....it is going to save my life...i might miss the meats a little but i would my living a lot more...it is not a moral issue with me....i think God put certain animals on this earth for us to eat....but as far as being vegetarian, im doing it to live...to get healthy.....

    and you still got to be careful...you cant eat a bunch of crap....you got to be smart.....

    hope you find the plan that works the best for you...we are all different and our bodies are all different...

    have fun...live life!
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Obviously, it wasn't just to lose weight. Part of it was to support my wife while she became one, and another part was to challenge myself to see if I could do it. The animal-rights aspect is there, but it's not really governing anything. But now that I've been sticking to it for a year and a half and the wife is going to be the ex-wife, I'm just questioning why I'm still doing it. I might still stick to it, but I miss having fish or chicken once in a while and I might bring those back. The low-carb part makes sense, and it's worth a try to see if it makes a difference.

    The scientist in me is telling me to rule stuff out. Sure, since I've started the diet, I've lost a pretty significant amount. But I've also started working out again, I haven't had burger fast food (still the occasional veggie sub or pizza) in almost two years, and I've made an effort to control portions. I wonder if it isn't those contributing to the weight loss instead of just the change in diet.

    But that's the point that I'm getting from Taubes' book: it isn't just calories-in/calories-out, it's also a matter of WHAT you're eating, not just how much. And considering I'm still sitting around 290-300 lbs. after two years (I was around 320 when I started), I'm looking at anything that will help break that.

    So some thoughts, because I tend to think the vegetarian/vegan/carnivore thing is dumb.

    Add some foods in, see how you feel and go from there. 20-30 pounds in two years isn't bad, but you could do a lot better. It's important to note you didn't increase weight, which is good. Why not just throw out the silly "can't have X food" and eat sensibly. A little meat, a lot of vegetables, grains if they work for you, and when they're appropriate.

    As for the ethical reasons, people don't like to talk about how many animals are literally torn apart during vegetable harvesting. You can buy ethically grown and killed meat, so don't let that be a perceived obstacle.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    I respect vegetarians for their choice, but when it comes to health I believe they're blaming the wrong thing. Meat isn't the problem, it's the over abundance of processed grains, sugars and fake foods that we over eat on and get no nutrition from.
    Not every vegetarian is vegetarian because he or she believes meat is unhealthy.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    I am skeptical that a vegetarian diet will help you lose weight. Unless your macros are adjusted accordingly. I know many vegetarians, and they are all big people.. as you know a vegetarians can have cake, cookies, candy, pop, etc etc.... I don't think this is a valid weight loss diet IMO.
    I know many vegetarians who are healthy weights. And I know many meat-eaters who are very overweight.

    *shrug*
  • kkzmom11
    kkzmom11 Posts: 220 Member
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    i choose not to eat a lot of beef, poultry, and pork for moral reasons. it's got nothing to do with weightloss (mostly because i haven't seen any since doing that. :grumble: ). however, i do eat those things occassionally, so i am more of a flexitarian. so, OP, if your reason for changing from a vegetarian plan to something else is purely for weight loss reasons, then it's a bad idea. ANY plan, as others have said, whether promoting certain foods or disallowing certain foods, is going to be unhealthy. calories in vs calories out is the only way for permanent weight loss. my thing is mindful eating (paying attention to what i am eating, when i am eating, and why). otherwise, i am not going to be following any "diet", especially if it is excluding any foods.
  • jennaworksout
    jennaworksout Posts: 1,739 Member
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    I am skeptical that a vegetarian diet will help you lose weight. Unless your macros are adjusted accordingly. I know many vegetarians, and they are all big people.. as you know a vegetarians can have cake, cookies, candy, pop, etc etc.... I don't think this is a valid weight loss diet IMO.
    I know many vegetarians who are healthy weights. And I know many meat-eaters who are very overweight.

    *shrug*

    exactly, cutting out certain foods is not going to help weight loss. vegetarians are all sizes too, its the crap , processed foods, breads, crackers, chips, etc etc, that is the problem. Not meat.
  • redraidergirl2009
    redraidergirl2009 Posts: 2,560 Member
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    Obviously, it wasn't just to lose weight. Part of it was to support my wife while she became one, and another part was to challenge myself to see if I could do it. The animal-rights aspect is there, but it's not really governing anything. But now that I've been sticking to it for a year and a half and the wife is going to be the ex-wife, I'm just questioning why I'm still doing it. I might still stick to it, but I miss having fish or chicken once in a while and I might bring those back. The low-carb part makes sense, and it's worth a try to see if it makes a difference.

    The scientist in me is telling me to rule stuff out. Sure, since I've started the diet, I've lost a pretty significant amount. But I've also started working out again, I haven't had burger fast food (still the occasional veggie sub or pizza) in almost two years, and I've made an effort to control portions. I wonder if it isn't those contributing to the weight loss instead of just the change in diet.

    But that's the point that I'm getting from Taubes' book: it isn't just calories-in/calories-out, it's also a matter of WHAT you're eating, not just how much. And considering I'm still sitting around 290-300 lbs. after two years (I was around 320 when I started), I'm looking at anything that will help break that.

    So I'm still not getting that your choice was a moral aspect to become vegetarian, you just said your wife was and you saw it as a challenge? If you went vegetarian for someone else or as a challenge to see if you could do it I don't see why you're still doing it?

    Personally, I don't go by obscure books or bad science (obscure paid to find certain "results" studies). I go by math, while not always my best subject, calories in v calories out is the math to weightloss or gain. Have you been measuring every single thing that goes in your mouth? Getting as accurate calorie burns as possible to log? Are you eating calories back or not? Adjusted your activity level? I don't think you just going back to eating meat is going to make your magically lose weight from some magical undiscovered meat vitamin. Apparently you became overweight eating meat is my understanding so going back to won't make you lose weight. Any diet can be unhealthy, vegetarian or not. It's about personal responsibility. There are alot of unanswered questions here about your weight struggles, but to just pin it on being vegetarian is stupid flat out.
  • davidrapp5
    davidrapp5 Posts: 14
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    Obviously, it wasn't just to lose weight. Part of it was to support my wife while she became one, and another part was to challenge myself to see if I could do it. The animal-rights aspect is there, but it's not really governing anything. But now that I've been sticking to it for a year and a half and the wife is going to be the ex-wife, I'm just questioning why I'm still doing it. I might still stick to it, but I miss having fish or chicken once in a while and I might bring those back. The low-carb part makes sense, and it's worth a try to see if it makes a difference.

    The scientist in me is telling me to rule stuff out. Sure, since I've started the diet, I've lost a pretty significant amount. But I've also started working out again, I haven't had burger fast food (still the occasional veggie sub or pizza) in almost two years, and I've made an effort to control portions. I wonder if it isn't those contributing to the weight loss instead of just the change in diet.

    But that's the point that I'm getting from Taubes' book: it isn't just calories-in/calories-out, it's also a matter of WHAT you're eating, not just how much. And considering I'm still sitting around 290-300 lbs. after two years (I was around 320 when I started), I'm looking at anything that will help break that.

    So I'm still not getting that your choice was a moral aspect to become vegetarian, you just said your wife was and you saw it as a challenge? If you went vegetarian for someone else or as a challenge to see if you could do it I don't see why you're still doing it?

    Personally, I don't go by obscure books or bad science (obscure paid to find certain "results" studies). I go by math, while not always my best subject, calories in v calories out is the math to weightloss or gain. Have you been measuring every single thing that goes in your mouth? Getting as accurate calorie burns as possible to log? Are you eating calories back or not? Adjusted your activity level? I don't think you just going back to eating meat is going to make your magically lose weight from some magical undiscovered meat vitamin. Apparently you became overweight eating meat is my understanding so going back to won't make you lose weight. Any diet can be unhealthy, vegetarian or not. It's about personal responsibility. There are alot of unanswered questions here about your weight struggles, but to just pin it on being vegetarian is stupid flat out.

    If I had to pin it on any one thing, it'd be the fact that I just eat too much. When I became a vegetarian, I also exercised a little more portion control (still eat a lot, though) and went with healthier options - less greasy food, more colorful foods...you get the idea. I understand that I can probably do the same things and drop the vegetarian part while I'm at it, but I feel like I'd just be opening the flood gates if I tried to reintroduce certain foods.

    But redraidergirl, you made the exact point I can't get past...if I did to help someone else out, or even just to challenge myself, why keep doing it? The "someone else" is gone, and pulling off a big change like that and sticking it for a year and a half is impressive, especially for a guy like me. So I suppose I'm just trying to convince myself to not be an idiot when it comes to food. That, and I'm still trying to figure out what works.
  • davidrapp5
    davidrapp5 Posts: 14
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    Maybe you should explore Paleo or Primal as an option.

    ETA: Plus, just think about all the thousands of plants that are senselessly murdered to make your salads! THE HORROR!

    1.) Heard tons of good things about Paleo...hard to do with my budget. If money were no object, absolutely.

    2.) STILL laughing about the murdered plants line.

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