P90X may be more dangerous than Crossfit
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I always interpreted those mascots more as warnings than role models...at least Rhabdo (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/38_05_cf_rhabdo.pdf). Pukey, well, he's obviously slightly less dangerous (http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_Pukie_Achauer2.pdf).
I know that when I'm trying to warn people about the potentially deadly effects of my exercise program, I use colorful clown cartoons. It really underscores the seriousness with which I take the subject. They still hand out the t-shirts?
No doubt, crossfit has some issues in the form of many of its messages from corporate...
...but I try not to let things like the mascot distract me from the obvious underlying message.
And no, I'm not aware of a t-shirt related to any of this...but in my time there, I haven't seen anyone vomit or be hospitalized to know if that earns them a t-shirt. *shrug*
As long as Crossfit keeps certifying people as trainers with only a weekend workshop as education, their reputation for having safe, well-run facilities will continue to deteriorate -- as it should.
And again, there are other levels to CrossFit certification as well as the factor of experience that come in to play as well.0 -
I always interpreted those mascots more as warnings than role models...at least Rhabdo (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/38_05_cf_rhabdo.pdf). Pukey, well, he's obviously slightly less dangerous (http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_Pukie_Achauer2.pdf).
I know that when I'm trying to warn people about the potentially deadly effects of my exercise program, I use colorful clown cartoons. It really underscores the seriousness with which I take the subject. They still hand out the t-shirts?
No doubt, crossfit has some issues in the form of many of its messages from corporate...
...but I try not to let things like the mascot distract me from the obvious underlying message.
And no, I'm not aware of a t-shirt related to any of this...but in my time there, I haven't seen anyone vomit or be hospitalized to know if that earns them a t-shirt. *shrug*
As long as Crossfit keeps certifying people as trainers with only a weekend workshop as education, their reputation for having safe, well-run facilities will continue to deteriorate -- as it should.
How many crossfit facilities do you know of that are staffed only by L1 crossfit-certified trainers??? I know of none. Assuming you have even one example, how many of those have been around more than a few years? I would be shocked to learn that there are any.
It just doesn't make good business sense...and the competition is strong enough that facilities run poorly will not survive.0 -
How many crossfit facilities do you know of that are staffed only by L1 crossfit-certified trainers??? I know of none. Assuming you have even one example, how many of those have been around more than a few years? I would be shocked to learn that there are any.
It just doesn't make good business sense...and the competition is strong enough that facilities run poorly will not survive.
Are you using your own ignorance as an argument? Are you comparing relative ignorance to see who is the least ignorant?
Since they no longer seem to publish it on the website, can you provide some information about the credentials that over-level-1 crossfit-certified trainers have to have?0 -
P90X and Crossfit are both fine workouts IF you know the correct form and IF you don't exert yourself too far beyond your current fitness level.
I hear a lot of hate on Crossfit, but while I was there, I had a ton of help. The trainers were always on me about my form. It sounds like that's not the norm, but having them there definitely helped me scale my workouts to my level and maintain good form.
Workout videos and Crossfit seem to both attract beginners who have no clue what they're doing, though. And both have a badge of honor kind of thing if you complete them. I can see how that could be a recipe for disaster. People are pushing you, but you have no clue how far is too far. At least at Crossfit they can call 911 if you keel over.0 -
I hate these threads, as they are generally full of people who have never been a part of CrossFit.
At *my* box (and yes, I'm a devout CrossFitter), the coaches would rather you go light with CORRECT form than heavy with bad form. I've been sore as hell throughout my time at XFit. Barely able to walk.
Knock on wood.... never hurt.
I get pushed to my limits every workout. My strength has increased dramatically..but most of all, my FORM is worlds better.
There are different boxes. There's a ridiculous box by where I live, in which they're work until you puke. I saw that, and saw that it wasn't for me. The box that I'm at does a fantastic job...
If you're interested in hating on Crossfit, at least attempt a few classes before you do.0 -
I hate these threads, as they are generally full of people who have never been a part of CrossFit.
At *my* box (and yes, I'm a devout CrossFitter), the coaches would rather you go light with CORRECT form than heavy with bad form. I've been sore as hell throughout my time at XFit. Barely able to walk.
Knock on wood.... never hurt.
I get pushed to my limits every workout. My strength has increased dramatically..but most of all, my FORM is worlds better.
There are different boxes. There's a ridiculous box by where I live, in which they're work until you puke. I saw that, and saw that it wasn't for me. The box that I'm at does a fantastic job...
If you're interested in hating on Crossfit, at least attempt a few classes before you do.
I would really like it if they could find a way to not certify, franchise and brand the other type of boxes that you talk about. It diminishes the Name.0 -
I hate these threads, as they are generally full of people who have never been a part of CrossFit.
At *my* box (and yes, I'm a devout CrossFitter), the coaches would rather you go light with CORRECT form than heavy with bad form. I've been sore as hell throughout my time at XFit. Barely able to walk.
Knock on wood.... never hurt.
I get pushed to my limits every workout. My strength has increased dramatically..but most of all, my FORM is worlds better.
There are different boxes. There's a ridiculous box by where I live, in which they're work until you puke. I saw that, and saw that it wasn't for me. The box that I'm at does a fantastic job...
If you're interested in hating on Crossfit, at least attempt a few classes before you do.
I would really like it if they could find a way to not certify, franchise and brand the other type of boxes that you talk about. It diminishes the Name.
This, we can agree on.
But these exceptions...(and in my personal experience, I believe these are exceptions)...will not dissuade me from recommending that people check out gyms that are convenient to them to see in which of the two polar-opposite camps it falls into that we are discussing here.0 -
I hate these threads, as they are generally full of people who have never been a part of CrossFit.
At *my* box (and yes, I'm a devout CrossFitter), the coaches would rather you go light with CORRECT form than heavy with bad form. I've been sore as hell throughout my time at XFit. Barely able to walk.
Knock on wood.... never hurt.
I get pushed to my limits every workout. My strength has increased dramatically..but most of all, my FORM is worlds better.
There are different boxes. There's a ridiculous box by where I live, in which they're work until you puke. I saw that, and saw that it wasn't for me. The box that I'm at does a fantastic job...
If you're interested in hating on Crossfit, at least attempt a few classes before you do.
I would really like it if they could find a way to not certify, franchise and brand the other type of boxes that you talk about. It diminishes the Name.
I totally agree. I've seen those videos but I've never seen anything like that at my box. The owner/head instructor of the box often posts reminders about not being a "whiteboard hero", " check your ego at the door" and to scale accordingly on the website/facebook/emails and the whiteboard and in person. I haven't been to any other boxes but mine is just not like a lot of the ones described on here. I've seen people told to drop weight when they needed to and form is corrected constantly.
I've learned more about form and progressed more since joined that I ever did with a personal trainer at the gym. All of the instructors have been involved for years, and have a couple of certificates. I know the main instructor has an Olympic lifting course (because they are offering one again soon and an emall was sent) and both he and his wife have Olympic lift coaches (this coach is strictly Olympic lifts, not crossfit associated).
OTH I am also a runner. One of our popular local coaches has the belief that if you didn't puke on a run, you didn't run hard enough.0 -
This, we can agree on.
But these exceptions...(and in my personal experience, I believe these are exceptions)...will not dissuade me from recommending that people check out gyms that are convenient to them to see in which of the two polar-opposite camps it falls into that we are discussing here.
My core assertion is that the existence of those exceptions means that some manner of housecleaning needs to take place. The concept of crossfit itself is brilliant. It is the epitome of human fitness. The business side of crossfit is flawed to the extent that people could be harmed under the name of crossfit. Until they address that, I have to remain cynical.0 -
This, we can agree on.
But these exceptions...(and in my personal experience, I believe these are exceptions)...will not dissuade me from recommending that people check out gyms that are convenient to them to see in which of the two polar-opposite camps it falls into that we are discussing here.
My core assertion is that the existence of those exceptions means that some manner of housecleaning needs to take place. The concept of crossfit itself is brilliant. It is the epitome of human fitness. The business side of crossfit is flawed to the extent that people could be harmed under the name of crossfit. Until they address that, I have to remain cynical.
And I believe that the stories of those exceptions are likely overblown. I used to believe they were more prevalent...I used to couch my recommendation of crossfit with warnings of bad facilities...but the more I sought the opinions of people with actual experience at established crossfit facilities, the more I came to realize that those seemed to be based more on internet legends than on legit information. I decided to stop buying into the hype of the negatives and instead rely on what I knew to be true (at least in my experience and from my own admittedly potentially biased viewpoint).0 -
I agree. I suspect that dude was a cherry pie! I've done outrageously cruel things to my body AND I have thyroid autoimmune disorder....the only time I pissed blood was from sparring! P90x is NOT that hard! KenpoX?! come on mang! The only disc I really dig is CoreSyn. P90x is not as hard as mma circuit training which the hipsters of the fitness world now call Crossfit. Do it! Youll be fine.0
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And I believe that the stories of those exceptions are likely overblown. I used to believe they were more prevalent...I used to couch my recommendation of crossfit with warnings of bad facilities...but the more I sought the opinions of people with actual experience at established crossfit facilities, the more I came to realize that those seemed to be based more on internet legends than on legit information. I decided to stop buying into the hype of the negatives and instead rely on what I knew to be true (at least in my experience and from my own admittedly potentially biased viewpoint).
There are anecdotes about good boxes, and anecdotes about bad boxes. 3dogs cited a pretty impressive CV for hers. As you noted earlier, the fundamentals of economics should sort out the rest. But since I'm by trade a risk manager, I'm very attuned to quality control.
When they fix that, I will shut my pie hole.0 -
I always interpreted those mascots more as warnings than role models...at least Rhabdo (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/38_05_cf_rhabdo.pdf). Pukey, well, he's obviously slightly less dangerous (http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_Pukie_Achauer2.pdf).
I know that when I'm trying to warn people about the potentially deadly effects of my exercise program, I use colorful clown cartoons. It really underscores the seriousness with which I take the subject. They still hand out the t-shirts?
No doubt, crossfit has some issues in the form of many of its messages from corporate...
...but I try not to let things like the mascot distract me from the obvious underlying message.
And no, I'm not aware of a t-shirt related to any of this...but in my time there, I haven't seen anyone vomit or be hospitalized to know if that earns them a t-shirt. *shrug*
Oh really? Because the link you provided with respect to Pukey said this:[...]sometimes people vomit during and after workouts. It
just happens. Scientists don’t totally understand why. Things
just get weird, and sometimes you have to pay the clown.
That, of course, will often result in a video being filmed
as you retch, and maybe even a special T-shirt from
the gym.
LOL getting sick from working out. LOL.
When I posted the link, I wasn't saying I vouched for the article in its entirety. I was simply sharing some evidence that these mascots were not necessarily something that crossfit aspires to achieve.
I've vomited sauteed shrimp before too...
...but haven't stopped eating shrimp.
Sometimes things truly do "just get weird"...
I have come close after squats and deadlifts...seriously close.0 -
Proving once again that people don't read articles. The main point in the last paragraph:You can’t put your muscles through a strenuous workout without leading up to it, and you need to recognize when your body is telling you that there is something wrong.
It has nothing to do with P90X and everything to do with going whole hog after an extended period of time of sitting on your butt. You need to build up to working out. Jumping into crossfit would give the same results, if not worse.
OP,
Excellent troll.
Jof? A troll? Funniest thing I've heard all day...hahahaha.
Quoting for prosperity.
The title is misleading. Some people who don't read the whole article for that single piece of information at the end will think that P90X is specifically unsafe. The article, combined with Jof's title, comes off as a bit of a troll...
....or is this supposed to be comedy?0 -
P90X is a reasonably good program.
I don't get the need to promote program X by denigrating program Y. Do your thing.
And all sports, all, consider going to the edge and tossing your cookies as the radical woo woo limit. It's not. For me, somewhere along the way I learned that injury happens but you do everything to avoid it, and that it can be the sharp edge the leads down the spiraled hole of decision failure to very bad places (every climber or long distance hiker knowns this), so I have my doubts about coaches or programs that venerate up-chuck as edgy. It just highlights either piss poor planning, bad training, or physiology.
From the article:I don’t exactly want to throw up, but CrossFit’s mascot is a barfing clown named Pukie, and I’ve long harbored the suspicion that I’ve never thrown up because I don’t push myself hard enough.
Lolwut?
I hope that this Neanderthal attitude isn't the prevalent group think - I still want to try a box but that woud have me going away from a trainer, coach, team, etc. Physiologically speaking crossfit isn't much different from P90X. Or is there some magic unicorn dust in either program I'm missing?
And yeah, I've done the multi-colored yawn, but my objective, each and every time as been to climb faster, ride harder, run better without puking the next time. Imho, puking is failure, of the poor kind.0 -
Squats don't make me puke, they make me have to poop. (Good thing I work out at home, LOL)I always interpreted those mascots more as warnings than role models...at least Rhabdo (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/38_05_cf_rhabdo.pdf). Pukey, well, he's obviously slightly less dangerous (http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_Pukie_Achauer2.pdf).
I know that when I'm trying to warn people about the potentially deadly effects of my exercise program, I use colorful clown cartoons. It really underscores the seriousness with which I take the subject. They still hand out the t-shirts?
No doubt, crossfit has some issues in the form of many of its messages from corporate...
...but I try not to let things like the mascot distract me from the obvious underlying message.
And no, I'm not aware of a t-shirt related to any of this...but in my time there, I haven't seen anyone vomit or be hospitalized to know if that earns them a t-shirt. *shrug*
Oh really? Because the link you provided with respect to Pukey said this:[...]sometimes people vomit during and after workouts. It
just happens. Scientists don’t totally understand why. Things
just get weird, and sometimes you have to pay the clown.
That, of course, will often result in a video being filmed
as you retch, and maybe even a special T-shirt from
the gym.
LOL getting sick from working out. LOL.
When I posted the link, I wasn't saying I vouched for the article in its entirety. I was simply sharing some evidence that these mascots were not necessarily something that crossfit aspires to achieve.
I've vomited sauteed shrimp before too...
...but haven't stopped eating shrimp.
Sometimes things truly do "just get weird"...
I have come close after squats and deadlifts...seriously close.
Deadlifts make my ears ring.
Rows make me dizzy.
Running makes my throat burn so bad it feels like it's on fire. (I don't run anymore.)
Bicycling has been the source of countless injuries for me including a broken tooth and several other trips to the emergency room.
Nobody pushes me on any of these things because I do them alone.
Just another perspective that can mean whatever you want it to mean.
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LOL getting sick from working out. LOL.
the only time I vomited from a workout, was from swimming, while training to be a lifeguard. So ... I guess training to be a lifeguard pushes people too far as well.0 -
Proving once again that people don't read articles. The main point in the last paragraph:You can’t put your muscles through a strenuous workout without leading up to it, and you need to recognize when your body is telling you that there is something wrong.
It has nothing to do with P90X and everything to do with going whole hog after an extended period of time of sitting on your butt. You need to build up to working out. Jumping into crossfit would give the same results, if not worse.
OP,
Excellent troll.
^^^^^ Completely agree with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
People need to be cautious when doing new exercises. P90X is way too difficult for people out of shape. It is much more appropriate for already athletic people that want to take things up a notch.
However, I will defend P90X. If you use common sense and appropriate weight, it is a great work out system. Tony tells you all the way through how to modify exercises. When I did the videos, I modified some exercises but not others. My fitness status could be best described as a former athelete that has gotten a bit squishy. I also have some knee issues.
With this is mind, remember, strenuous exercise is strenuous exercise. Regardless of the system, you gotta build up. I know this reality is frustrating. Especially if you used to be in excellent shape. Good luck everybody!0 -
In response to the "troll" allegations...to me, it was more of an intentionally slightly incendiary topic for purposes of a robust discussion...and that's what we got (albeit in an unexpected (to me) direction). I simply used the logic leveled against other rigorous forms of exercise against a target that isn't often implicated. Actually, it wasn't so much me as the author who did most of the work. I just shared the link and off it (finally) went. I did find it interesting/enlightening to see the same defenses of P90X offered that are offered for the more common target (such as crossfit).
Do I think P90X is "dangerous"? Not if used with a shred of common sense. Do I think P90X is appropriate for all people? Probably not. Same for crossfit, though.
And to expand on what was said up there^, I honestly believe being a "former athlete" is the most dangerous component of the equation regardless of the chosen exercise regimen. Having a memory of what you *used to* be capable of is remarkably dangerous. Acknowledging and truly understanding that this *used to* ability is irrelevant to your current condition is essential if you don't want to end up having a bad time.*
(* says the guy who has ran himself into an injury from running (multiple times) and worked himself into an injury from manual labor (multiple times) because he remembers what he *used to* be capable of.)0
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