How to increase swimming endurance and power?

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  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,662 Member
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    also think about what your doing when you get tired. if you just concentrate on being tired you'll just stop.

    doing it right when your tired is how you progress
  • mikeatmichael
    mikeatmichael Posts: 92 Member
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    I wasn't going to respond to this as there are already a lot of great suggestions. So many that it might be overload. But I was doing my mile swim at the Y on my lunch hour and got to thinking that maybe I could simplify.

    I started swimming laps 20 years ago when I was 36. Coincidentally 36 laps is a mile, so I thought I'd make that my goal. I was always a strong swimmer, but my form wasn't very good. I started at 10 laps and added one lap per visit until I got to 36. I've been doing that on and off since, sometimes slacking off for a year or two but always coming back to it. This year I've been going three times a week on lunch hours. Over the years my form has improved until now I think its probably pretty good. One of the other regulars is a swim coach so I've asked him for tips.

    Not having seen you swim but based on watching other lap swimmers here's my recommendations:

    1. Relax
    2. Slow down
    3. Work on form
    a. lengthen your stroke - reach out as far as you can on the beginning of the stroke and pull back all the way to your thigh
    b. work on breathing every three strokes, on alternate sides

    But 1. and 2. are the most important. Until you get that right you won't be able to hone your stroke. Speed comes more from efficiency than effort.
  • Slatzuk
    Slatzuk Posts: 80 Member
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    Have a look at the Mr Smooth animation here.

    http://www.swimsmooth.com/
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
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    other then that, i was always taught to look at the wall not the floor of the pool, but thats more race mechanics. not sure how it effects efficency but the typically go hand in hand.

    everything should be on top of the water, especially for freestyle. if your torso or legs are pointing down, its only going to make things harder. try to keep it all on the surface.

    this is true. keep your head pointing down, chin tucked in. that'll help keep you body up right. i see people swimming with there head up, like they're flying. it causes there legs to go down into the water, so they drag. you won't hit the wall, because you'll be following the line on the pool floor and when you see the T, you know the wall is roughly two strokes away and yo won't hit it.
  • bio01979
    bio01979 Posts: 313
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    Competitive swimmer and later coach. haven't been in the water in years.

    so far the best advice i've seen is blow all your air out under water. tho i can see how that might be less then ideal in a crowded triathalon. good thing your in a pool.

    Let me first say that i'm really surprised at how many out of shape people tell me that they can or have swam a full mile plus at a time. Thats really impressive considering every 15-22 year old i've seen in lifeguard training had a very difficult time completeing a 500 yard swim, when a mile is more like 1650 yards.

    but anyway

    As alluded to before, technique is king in swimming, far more so then any other sport. its not the fastest or strongest that wins, its the most technically proficient swimmer that wins.

    unfortuantely, its nearly impossible to correct your stroke all on your own, but the drills will help, particularly the catch up because you can slow down and concentrate on what your doing.

    let me boil it down to 3 things i think you can work on that will help the most.

    1. breathe when its most comfortable for you. there a lot of schools of thought on how often to breathe. my coach wanted me to breathe as little as possible. Seems like olympic swimmers breath much more often then i was instructed to do. and all this is wrapped up in speed which is directly related to efficency but not the same thing. if breathing too often seems like more work, breath less. if you feel your not getting enough air, breath more. Holding your breath too long is just going to tire you out faster tho, and probably only has an honest place in short sprints, 200 or less. not everyone will think of a 200 as a sprint lol. i only breathe two one side. personally i think your better off being able to do it on both, but some olympic atheletes only breathe to one side so your probably ok there.

    2. if you sinking during the catch up stroke, your kick really sucks. lol, don't worry, mine does too. the kick has a lot more to do with moving through the water effeciently then you may realize. i think mistakes in kick technique are harder to correct then stroke becasue they are more sublte. it should involve your whole leg, hip to toe, in a whip like motion. learning the dolphin kick used in the butterfly may help because it emphasises the whip motion. honestly, after 8 years competitive swiming, thats the only kick i really do right. the more effeicent your kick, the far more efficent you move through the water. think about it, your constantly using your legs everyday, its not that they are weak when swimming, just not used properly. if you can harness the power and endurance of your legs, then your arms will tire far less quickly.

    3. this is specific to freestyle, and mentioned before. your body has to roll, like barrel roll. the centerline of your body (think nose to belly button) are the axis of rotation. when your body rolls, your shoulder comes up out of the water, and at that point you barely have to turn your head at all to breathe, and breathing is far more natural, comfortable, and efficient. if your not rolling your body, every time you take a breath its like your completely interupting your stroke and momementum through the water. there is an excellent way to practice this in a dry land drill. take a broom and lean it against your forehead. simulate front crawl with your arms but now try to roll your body so that your shoulders point infront of you... with out distrubing the broom.

    other then that, i was always taught to look at the wall not the floor of the pool, but thats more race mechanics. not sure how it effects efficency but the typically go hand in hand.

    everything should be on top of the water, especially for freestyle. if your torso or legs are pointing down, its only going to make things harder. try to keep it all on the surface.

    id concentrate more on what my hands should be doing in the water rather then out. out makes a differnce but i think what they do in is easier to pic up and gives you more when you get it.

    i'd concentrate on my kick. i'm willing to bet moving through the water with a kick board might be harder then swimming. try to improve that.

    I was actually quite surprised that as out of shape as I am now, I can still do similar practice speeds and can still swim over a km no problem

    but I swam competitively for 15 years, I may be fat and injured now but I was practically born in the water lol and swimming and efficient technique is as natural as breathing lol

    I have seen young fit people struggle because they were taught to swim the red Cross way and it isn't very efficient for fitness swimming, just emphasizing how important efficient technique is

    great tips on being more efficient :)
  • bio01979
    bio01979 Posts: 313
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    Oh man, this thread got bigger than I can handle too quickly! :D

    If I don't respond directly to you, I'm sorry, if I miss a question, let me know.

    Coaching: Never been coached, never swam competitively. I learned to swim before I learned to write though, so I've been familiar with the water most of my life, and I don't often have panic issues, and overall I feel comfortable.

    Stroke rate: No clue. I have a hard time counting past 5 at the moment while swimming too. My next planned swim is Weds. I'll make a note to get a stroke rate for 25y.

    Breathing: I am trying to find where I can breathe. Today things were working well every 3 pulls, then almost like a switch going off, I had to change to to 2. For the breaststroke, I feel comfortable at two, then that same switch goes, and then I have to breathe every stroke. Also when I hit that point my ability to pull well diminishes rapidly. I'm also trying to remember to breathe out underwater. I do it, but not sure I'm emptying my lungs. Then again, I've been told that's wise for open water swimming in a scrum.

    Kicking: I kick too much, I think I flutter like a bird with a broken wing. My lane neighbor today had a rather odd kick which I'm curious about, it was about 1-1.5 kicks per stroke, seemed to be just enough to keep his feet from dragging and to keep his very mild rotation going. I'm curious about that kick, because I think I'm kicking myself out, and I know my kick isn't too stellar. When I do kick drills, I think I do 25y faster with the frog kick from the breaststroke than with the crawl's kick.

    Drag and moving through the water: I'm making a very concious effort to look down, and press my chest down while bringing my hips up, because if I don't I can feel that my hips drop and I start dragging my legs through the water. That's ok when I'm scuba diving and looking at stuff, not ok when I'm "racing". I'm also learning better rotation, but still not there, obviously. I did some catchup drills today, 2x25 on each side, and I found if I wait too long before I pull again, I'll just sink which for a moment caused a ton of panic. (hooray weakness.)

    Drills: I'm currently doing the following drills:
    1. Really bad catchups. I'm getting the coordination figured out though.
    2. Kickboard laps using the crawl kick and then the breaststroke kick
    3. Pull laps using a pullbuoy for both crawl and breaststroke

    I'd like to incorporate side stroking and something to better help my rotation.

    This morning's swim was: 2x50 for warmup, 4x25 flutter kick, 4x25 frog kick, 2x25 swim, 4x25 catchups, 2x25 pullbuoy breaststroke pulls, 2x25 pullbuoy crawl pulls, 1x50 swim. I didn't get a cooldown in as I had to get out quick to head to work.

    ironanimal - sprints, that's excellent, I plan to do those anyway for my running. :)

    lizsmith1976 - Yoga is a great idea, I need to get back into that. I think I may need to try adding in a good swimming sprint lap or two just to push the envelope.

    CaptApollo - That was a good description. I've never thought of freestyle being swum on your side. I always saw it as chest down. Good description for the recovery as well, I hadn't thought of it as moving my elbow, and the hand a bit along for the ride. Heh, yeah, I know to breathe. When I was a kid I liked to take a big breath and see how far I could swim just kicking on that one breath, I could get a ways back then, now, no way. I'm looking to figure out a good schedule for instruction, but I have identified a swim class tailored specifically for triathlons (which is why I'm swimming) that I want to check out on saturdays.

    bio01979 - Aren't masters clubs more for people who are swimming competitively outside of college age? When I turn my head to breathe, I do it only a little bit, because I'm trying to make the whole rotation come from my hips, so once I'm out in chop, if I can't get clear air from the rotation, I can still turn my head and get to another breath.

    ninerbuff - I do have two items that I think will help, paddles, and I have a chute, just haven't used them yet, I want to be less like a drunk narwhal before I bring them into the mix. I have been trying to do 12.5y and 25y "sprints" where I just pull and kick faster for the rest of the lap.


    Ok, that's everything I saw in the thread when I started this response. :)

    I think it will depend on each Club, but the ones I have seen have the option of training to compete but they also offer great structured swim workouts from experienced and trained coaches for people of all abilities and might even give you some tips on your stroke

    also, breathe when you need or want to but finding a pattern that you can maintain is good, for breast you generally should breathe every stroke

    I can't comment much on kicking because I barely kick at all in training lol for some reason my legs stay on the surface almost on their own lol

    it sounds like you are taking good steps and I think I'd you keep At it you will do well
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,662 Member
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    Competitive swimmer and later coach. haven't been in the water in years.

    so far the best advice i've seen is blow all your air out under water. tho i can see how that might be less then ideal in a crowded triathalon. good thing your in a pool.

    Let me first say that i'm really surprised at how many out of shape people tell me that they can or have swam a full mile plus at a time. Thats really impressive considering every 15-22 year old i've seen in lifeguard training had a very difficult time completeing a 500 yard swim, when a mile is more like 1650 yards.

    but anyway

    As alluded to before, technique is king in swimming, far more so then any other sport. its not the fastest or strongest that wins, its the most technically proficient swimmer that wins.

    unfortuantely, its nearly impossible to correct your stroke all on your own, but the drills will help, particularly the catch up because you can slow down and concentrate on what your doing.

    let me boil it down to 3 things i think you can work on that will help the most.

    1. breathe when its most comfortable for you. there a lot of schools of thought on how often to breathe. my coach wanted me to breathe as little as possible. Seems like olympic swimmers breath much more often then i was instructed to do. and all this is wrapped up in speed which is directly related to efficency but not the same thing. if breathing too often seems like more work, breath less. if you feel your not getting enough air, breath more. Holding your breath too long is just going to tire you out faster tho, and probably only has an honest place in short sprints, 200 or less. not everyone will think of a 200 as a sprint lol. i only breathe two one side. personally i think your better off being able to do it on both, but some olympic atheletes only breathe to one side so your probably ok there.

    2. if you sinking during the catch up stroke, your kick really sucks. lol, don't worry, mine does too. the kick has a lot more to do with moving through the water effeciently then you may realize. i think mistakes in kick technique are harder to correct then stroke becasue they are more sublte. it should involve your whole leg, hip to toe, in a whip like motion. learning the dolphin kick used in the butterfly may help because it emphasises the whip motion. honestly, after 8 years competitive swiming, thats the only kick i really do right. the more effeicent your kick, the far more efficent you move through the water. think about it, your constantly using your legs everyday, its not that they are weak when swimming, just not used properly. if you can harness the power and endurance of your legs, then your arms will tire far less quickly.

    3. this is specific to freestyle, and mentioned before. your body has to roll, like barrel roll. the centerline of your body (think nose to belly button) are the axis of rotation. when your body rolls, your shoulder comes up out of the water, and at that point you barely have to turn your head at all to breathe, and breathing is far more natural, comfortable, and efficient. if your not rolling your body, every time you take a breath its like your completely interupting your stroke and momementum through the water. there is an excellent way to practice this in a dry land drill. take a broom and lean it against your forehead. simulate front crawl with your arms but now try to roll your body so that your shoulders point infront of you... with out distrubing the broom.

    other then that, i was always taught to look at the wall not the floor of the pool, but thats more race mechanics. not sure how it effects efficency but the typically go hand in hand.

    everything should be on top of the water, especially for freestyle. if your torso or legs are pointing down, its only going to make things harder. try to keep it all on the surface.

    id concentrate more on what my hands should be doing in the water rather then out. out makes a differnce but i think what they do in is easier to pic up and gives you more when you get it.

    i'd concentrate on my kick. i'm willing to bet moving through the water with a kick board might be harder then swimming. try to improve that.

    I was actually quite surprised that as out of shape as I am now, I can still do similar practice speeds and can still swim over a km no problem

    but I swam competitively for 15 years, I may be fat and injured now but I was practically born in the water lol and swimming and efficient technique is as natural as breathing lol

    I have seen young fit people struggle because they were taught to swim the red Cross way and it isn't very efficient for fitness swimming, just emphasizing how important efficient technique is

    great tips on being more efficient :)

    thanks! just giving the basics.

    i'm impressed that you were able to get in the water and do that. it is for sure a testiment to your technique.

    the more technically sound you are, the more swiming is as effortless as walking.

    When i was coaching about ten years ago, the kids begged us to get in and i could BARELY DO A 200 without being completely exhausted.

    there was an awful lot of beer and cigarettes bettween my swimming carreer and then lol. and much of my game was strength and conditioning... yea, that can only get you so far lol.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    1. breathe when its most comfortable for you.
    That's about where I am. I want to make sure it's smooth and not forced, but as I'm not paid to perfect my stroke, I'll do it when I need it.
    2. if you sinking during the catch up stroke, your kick really sucks. lol, don't worry, mine does too. the kick has a lot more to do with moving through the water effeciently then you may realize.
    My kick really sucks, doesn't give me a lot of propulsion either. However, I'm going to be doing more yards on a kickboard for that.
    3. this is specific to freestyle, and mentioned before. your body has to roll, like barrel roll. the centerline of your body (think nose to belly button) are the axis of rotation. when your body rolls, your shoulder comes up out of the water, and at that point you barely have to turn your head at all to breathe, and breathing is far more natural, comfortable, and efficient. if your not rolling your body, every time you take a breath its like your completely interupting your stroke and momementum through the water. there is an excellent way to practice this in a dry land drill. take a broom and lean it against your forehead. simulate front crawl with your arms but now try to roll your body so that your shoulders point infront of you... with out distrubing the broom.
    That's a good drill to try. I might get pizzed off like a ninja and break the broom, but I'll try it. I really need to work on that rotation.

    So yesterday when I swam I took a count of strokes needed to go 25 yards. Took 3 counts, and then averaged them for 25.3. Not very efficient. (First was 24, second was 27, third was 25.)

    Jammers v. tri shorts: I have both, I just wanted to swim in the tri shorts to see how it felt. I'm normally in jammers so I can make people feel uncomfortable.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,662 Member
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    just be happy there is now an alternative to the speedo lol
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    just be happy there is now an alternative to the speedo lol

    I have no problem wearing a speedo. :D

    I once played golf naked.
    and drunk.
    but mostly drunk and naked.

    The world should be happy there is an alternative to the speedo.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Ah this thread seems so old.

    Small update. Stuck with the swimming for obvious reasons, my triathlon is on saturday, I'm a little nervous, but I know I can do it. A lot of the advice here was really helpful and stuck with me.

    The distance is a sprint, so I'll be doing a half mile swim, over last weekend I did a mile on saturday and a mile on sunday in the lake I'll be swimming the tri in.

    I ended up going with a good coach for swimming at the Y, nice guy that really got down into technique with me, and gave me solid workouts. I'm a lot better swimmer, I still have some faults, but I'll be pounding out this tri. I figure with all the craziness and such, I'll be in a 20 minute swim or less, which is fine by me, I'll really need to drop weight and focus on technique in order to bring that time down from here. Not hard to do at all.

    I've gotten my biking to a good spot, hoping to average about 18mph for the race, and the path is a lot less hilly than I've been doing in practice. Then of course, the run. I've gotten myself to 10.5 min miles during my bricks, so I think I'm going to be good to go. My best mile time ever was a 9:52, so I think I'm doing pretty well there.

    Just tired of waiting for the event...
  • mumx5
    mumx5 Posts: 325 Member
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    bump to read later
  • ohpiper
    ohpiper Posts: 729 Member
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    I used to have the same issue where I would have to stop for a breather every 25 yards. Then, a number of years ago, I took a program at the Y called "Total Immersion." It basically retaught swimming from the very foundations. It's not about swimming harder, but instead, taught one how to swim efficiently. By virtue of the skills taught to me in this course, I'm readily able to swim a mile non-stop. There is a book available on Total Immersion which can explain the concepts, but it's, of course, a better option to have someone who can evaluate your strokes and provide you with feedback. Check with your local Y for a triathlon club and they may be a good resource for you.
  • FarAway02
    FarAway02 Posts: 211
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    I used an elliptical machine 6 days a week for 30/45 mins to increase my swimming endurance. Worked wonders. Luckily I've always had a good swimming technique so my problem was purely fitness/endurance as opposed to struggling with breathing and getting myself moving through the water.

    Build it up slowly and do other endurance exercise/workouts out of the pool to speed up the process.

    Good luck to you!
  • bakemma
    bakemma Posts: 161 Member
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    Commenting to follow up on this later! Thanks for the post. :)