How to not gain fat?
AnsiStar
Posts: 165 Member
Hey guys,
So, I have a food problem but I'm working my way to get better. I want to build muscle and I know I need to put on some weight. I've upped my calories a lot (though still not enough) and I workout 4 times a week (3x weight lifting and one kickboxing. I do 10 minutes of interval training before the weightlifting too).
I know I need to gain some weight but I'm still a little hesitant to up my calorie intake at the risk of gaining fat. I have a decent amount of fat (I don't know my bodyfat% but I'd estimate around 20% at a guess) so I don't want anymore!
I've had lots of tips from various sources but I don't know how accurate my tdee is and I just don't want to gain fat then freak out and start restricting again. Any and all advice is appreciated
Ps I'm around 7 stone and just short of 5'3 and I'm 22
So, I have a food problem but I'm working my way to get better. I want to build muscle and I know I need to put on some weight. I've upped my calories a lot (though still not enough) and I workout 4 times a week (3x weight lifting and one kickboxing. I do 10 minutes of interval training before the weightlifting too).
I know I need to gain some weight but I'm still a little hesitant to up my calorie intake at the risk of gaining fat. I have a decent amount of fat (I don't know my bodyfat% but I'd estimate around 20% at a guess) so I don't want anymore!
I've had lots of tips from various sources but I don't know how accurate my tdee is and I just don't want to gain fat then freak out and start restricting again. Any and all advice is appreciated
Ps I'm around 7 stone and just short of 5'3 and I'm 22
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Replies
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I have no experience with bulking, but this post seems like it might help:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-mistakes.html0 -
Bulking is a long, slow process. Women don't put on muscle like men do. Bulking can take a good 8-9 months. You are correct that you need to eat more. At your current weight, you can't gain muscle on a caloric deficit. You will gain a little fat too if you eat slightly over TDEE, but you already know how to lose the fat if you've lost 26 lbs for when you "cut". Just keep and eye in the mirror. If you put on too much fat, cut back.0
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How long have you been lifting for?0
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@auddii, thanks for the link!0
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Any suggestions with macros at all? I've just started reintroducing more carbs, but keep most of them for post workout. I try and get as much protein from food sources but I do use protein powders to help up my calorie intake. And my fat intake is usually from oil and nuts and peanut butter. Can anyone look at my diary and advise? Like I say, I'm not sure how accurate my TDEE is0
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Good quality and plentiful protein are necessary for bulking. Otherwise, your body will tear down existing cells to build new ones, and that's a bad situation. Plus, the more muscle you add to your body, the more calories your body will burn. It's like making the engine in a car bigger; the bigger the engine, the more fuel it will use, even when idling.0
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How long have you been lifting for?
Properly since about October? Then I joined a new gym in Feb and got a program made up but I was at a HUGE deficit and doing lots of cardio. Got a new program in April with less cardio and more lifting. And just gotten another new program which has a circuit and just that 10 min warm up. Then the Kickboxing for aroun 2 hours a week0 -
Any suggestions with macros at all? I've just started reintroducing more carbs, but keep most of them for post workout. I try and get as much protein from food sources but I do use protein powders to help up my calorie intake. And my fat intake is usually from oil and nuts and peanut butter. Can anyone look at my diary and advise? Like I say, I'm not sure how accurate my TDEE is
I would try for 1g of protein per lb of body weight (a bit higher than sometimes recommended as you are lean and in does not hurt to have a bit extra as insurance) and about about 0.35 - 0.4g fats per lb bodyweight. The rest should be carbs.0 -
How long have you been lifting for?
Properly since about October? Then I joined a new gym in Feb and got a program made up but I was at a HUGE deficit and doing lots of cardio. Got a new program in April with less cardio and more lifting. And just gotten another new program which has a circuit and just that 10 min warm up. Then the Kickboxing for aroun 2 hours a week
What actual routine are you doing? Are you doing circuits? What rep range are you using? Does your program include progressive loading?
[sorry for the plethora of questions, but a bulk will not be effective unless you have a decent lifting routine]0 -
How long have you been lifting for?
Properly since about October? Then I joined a new gym in Feb and got a program made up but I was at a HUGE deficit and doing lots of cardio. Got a new program in April with less cardio and more lifting. And just gotten another new program which has a circuit and just that 10 min warm up. Then the Kickboxing for aroun 2 hours a week
What actual routine are you doing? Are you doing circuits? What rep range are you using? Does your program include progressive loading?
[sorry for the plethora of questions, but a bulk will not be effective unless you have a decent lifting routine]
Don't apologise I asked for help, but my program is at home and I'm work atm, I can update in about an hour. I can tell you it's day one - chest and back [3 rounds, 2 exercises, 6 reps of 3 different sets...if that makes sense??], day two - legs [3 rounds, 5 exercises, 8 reps], day three - shoulders [same as day 2] 0 -
How long have you been lifting for?
Properly since about October? Then I joined a new gym in Feb and got a program made up but I was at a HUGE deficit and doing lots of cardio. Got a new program in April with less cardio and more lifting. And just gotten another new program which has a circuit and just that 10 min warm up. Then the Kickboxing for aroun 2 hours a week
What actual routine are you doing? Are you doing circuits? What rep range are you using? Does your program include progressive loading?
[sorry for the plethora of questions, but a bulk will not be effective unless you have a decent lifting routine]
Don't apologise I asked for help, but my program is at home and I'm work atm, I can update in about an hour. I can tell you it's day one - chest and back [3 rounds, 2 exercises, 6 reps of 3 different sets...if that makes sense??], day two - legs [3 rounds, 5 exercises, 8 reps], day three - shoulders [same as day 2]
If you can update when you get a chance - the volume looks low to be effective to bulk with. Are you focusing on gain muscle in your lower half v upper body?0 -
How long have you been lifting for?
Properly since about October? Then I joined a new gym in Feb and got a program made up but I was at a HUGE deficit and doing lots of cardio. Got a new program in April with less cardio and more lifting. And just gotten another new program which has a circuit and just that 10 min warm up. Then the Kickboxing for aroun 2 hours a week
What actual routine are you doing? Are you doing circuits? What rep range are you using? Does your program include progressive loading?
[sorry for the plethora of questions, but a bulk will not be effective unless you have a decent lifting routine]
Don't apologise I asked for help, but my program is at home and I'm work atm, I can update in about an hour. I can tell you it's day one - chest and back [3 rounds, 2 exercises, 6 reps of 3 different sets...if that makes sense??], day two - legs [3 rounds, 5 exercises, 8 reps], day three - shoulders [same as day 2]
If you can update when you get a chance - the volume looks low to be effective to bulk with. Are you focusing on gain muscle in your lower half v upper body?
I want an all round lean look. I don't want to be muscles galore or anything but nicely defined. I'll update when I get home thanks a lot 0 -
Aim for a gain around 0.5lb/wk or a little less. A portion of the gain will be fat. That is unavoidable, but trying to gain muscle mass without adding fat at some point is painfully slow. A program like Lyle's (re-composition author) UD2 is efficient at adding mass without adding much fat, but it is not a great deal of fun and takes a level of dedication that might be a bit shocking. There are several women logging their progress with UD2 in his forum. What do you estimate your BF level to be?0
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Aim for a gain around 0.5lb/wk or a little less. A portion of the gain will be fat. That is unavoidable, but trying to gain muscle mass without adding fat at some point is painfully slow. A program like Lyle's (re-composition author) UD2 is efficient at adding mass without adding much fat, but it is not a great deal of fun and takes a level of dedication that might be a bit shocking. There are several women logging their progress with UD2 in his forum. What do you estimate your BF level to be?
I think perhaps anything with TOO much restriction would be unhealthy for me given I'm still trying to recover. I couldn't tell you for sure as my results always come out bizarre and different but I would guess it's around 20%? I have no idea if that's right or not though0 -
If you are at 20% body fat, then you are in an okay range to do a short bulk. As others have stated, you will gain some fat in the process while upping to a surplus of calories. First, you need to establish what your maintenance level of calories are relative to degree of activity. Once you know how much you need to maintain, then you can add a reasonably small surplus as recommended by Lyle. You'll end the bulk once your body fat percentage reaches the upper limit that you set and initiate a cut to reduce mass while trying to keep as much of the lean gains as possible. So don't worry about it.0
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If you are eating in a deficit right now then "muscles galore" will not be an issue for you. I am sure Sarah was going to recommend this, but you would probably benefit from a program that includes compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, over head press, pull ups/chin ups, rows ,etc...If you do not know these moves then you should learn them and incorporate them into a routine where you are hitting back, legs, shoulders, arms...If I am wrong the I am sure Sarah will correct meHow long have you been lifting for?
Properly since about October? Then I joined a new gym in Feb and got a program made up but I was at a HUGE deficit and doing lots of cardio. Got a new program in April with less cardio and more lifting. And just gotten another new program which has a circuit and just that 10 min warm up. Then the Kickboxing for aroun 2 hours a week
What actual routine are you doing? Are you doing circuits? What rep range are you using? Does your program include progressive loading?
[sorry for the plethora of questions, but a bulk will not be effective unless you have a decent lifting routine]
Don't apologise I asked for help, but my program is at home and I'm work atm, I can update in about an hour. I can tell you it's day one - chest and back [3 rounds, 2 exercises, 6 reps of 3 different sets...if that makes sense??], day two - legs [3 rounds, 5 exercises, 8 reps], day three - shoulders [same as day 2]
If you can update when you get a chance - the volume looks low to be effective to bulk with. Are you focusing on gain muscle in your lower half v upper body?
I want an all round lean look. I don't want to be muscles galore or anything but nicely defined. I'll update when I get home thanks a lot
If you want to gain then you should slowly increase calories (example increase from 1500 to 1600 for a week, and then 1600 to 1700 a week, and so on) until you find your maintenance level, once you find that you can add another 50 or 100 calories per day and then stay at that level...0 -
When bulking, the mirror can sometime scare you. You will end up holding more water which can make you look and feel bloated and make it look like you're gaining more fat than you really are.0
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I started out about three pounds underweight and went really slow. I took about 1.5 years to put on 8 pounds, with first crossfit then lifting (5/3/1 specifically if you've heard of that). MFP had me at about 1700 calories for maintenance, and I was netting about 1970 calories a day on average while I was "bulking". Like I said, I went really slow with it (and my strength gains likely suffered for it), but my BF%, according to 7pt caliper measurements, stayed about the same (within a narrow 2% range) the entire time, so like everyone has said, you will put on some fat, that's inevitable, but you can put it on in proportion to the muscle you're adding. This will likely limit strength gains, though, as opposed to an all out bulk.
Personally, I don't think I have the dedication to do strict bulk and cut cycles. I'm used to eating what I want when I want, and I think the cuts would make me angry, so that's why I went this route. But I will say I've never had food issues, either over or under eating, so this approach may not be for everyone.0 -
Some good advice here. Based on your comments, I think one of the first things to figure out is your tdee. There are estimating calculators everywhere, but the most accurate way is to count your calories and figure out how many keep you at maintenance for a few weeks. This will give you a baseline to start adding or taking away calories from. That, and a solid lifting program, will slowly but surely get you in the right direction.0
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Not gain fat when bulking? impossible unless godlike genetics.... You can however gain minimal amounts when bulking, something I try practice.. You just need to eat about 200-400 over your caloric daily requirement Your body can ONLY gain __ amount of muscle over a period of time, so eating anything more will only lead to more fat gain, not more muscle gain
Take it slow 0 -
Here is a calculator that might help. http://iifym.com/IIFYM-calculator/ Keep in mind that is just a target, so you have to adjust based on what you see happening. There is a lot of truth to the first weeks being difficult. Very short after starting many experience a 3-10lb gain. This is normal, and you just have to deal with it. Once your weight normalizes you can start judging how your progress is going. You should see your lifts increasing slowly if things are going well.
UD2 starts out with four days of borderline fasting (protein and veggies only for the most part) coupled with some crazy long high rep workouts to deplete ones glycogen stores. At the end of the week there is a carb re-load (crazy amount) followed by some low rep workouts that are a ton of fun. I know many that have gotten very lean with this process, but they are the type that tend to take things a bit too far.
At 20% I think you are fine shape to start any muscle growth plan.
Good luck.0 -
did a grave.0
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bump0
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Some really excellent advice here!
In response to the TDEE references - I have used just about EVERY calculator on the internet but I still don't know if I trust it and myself. Eg how much effort am I REALLY putting into the workouts. My body temperature's very low so I'm not much of a sweat-er and my muscles don't often ache much so how do I know? I'm probably just overthinking but I just want to get things right this time, I never wanted to get like this, I always wanted to be lean but lost my focus and got a bit obsessed.
In response to my program: 10 min cardio warmup on cross trainer each time
Day one: Chest and Back
Barbell Press and Assisted Pull ups 3 x 6+ 6 (20kg and 20kg)
Incline Dumbell Press and Single Arm Row 3 x 6+6 (9/10kg and 12kg)
Flat Dumbbel Flies and Bent Over Row 3 x 6 + 6 (7kg and 20kg)
Day two: Legs
Stiff Leg Deadlift 20kg
Squat 10kg
Leg Curl 35kg
Leg Extension 40-45kg
Abductor (inwards) 35-45kg
Abductor (pushing outwards) 40-50kg
8 reps of each exercise x3
Day three: Shoulders
Dumbbell press 8kg
Lat raise 3kg
Front raise 5kg
Bent over rear delt 3kg
Dumbbell upright row 3kg
8 reps of each exercise x30 -
In response to the TDEE references - I have used just about EVERY calculator on the internet but I still don't know if I trust it and myself. Eg how much effort am I REALLY putting into the workouts. My body temperature's very low so I'm not much of a sweat-er and my muscles don't often ache much so how do I know?
As I mentioned, you should use the calculators as an estimate, but then adjust it as you see (or don't see) your weight change. If you are adding 10% to your estimated TDEE but not gaining any weight after a few weeks, then you can fairly safely assume your estimated TDEE is too low so you adjust it. After some time you'll figure it out; just be patient.
And don't worry about obsessing. There is a lot of information to process as all of this gets figured out. You'll figure out what works best for you.0 -
http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
this is a good utility to give you some guidance. I use it myself and have been getting good results losing body fat % and gaining muscle mass which seems comparable to your objectives. good luck.0 -
In response to the TDEE references - I have used just about EVERY calculator on the internet but I still don't know if I trust it and myself. Eg how much effort am I REALLY putting into the workouts. My body temperature's very low so I'm not much of a sweat-er and my muscles don't often ache much so how do I know?
As I mentioned, you should use the calculators as an estimate, but then adjust it as you see (or don't see) your weight change. If you are adding 10% to your estimated TDEE but not gaining any weight after a few weeks, then you can fairly safely assume your estimated TDEE is too low so you adjust it. After some time you'll figure it out; just be patient.
And don't worry about obsessing. There is a lot of information to process as all of this gets figured out. You'll figure out what works best for you.
This is good advice. Experimentally figuring it out is really the best option. Mine was only about 50 calories higher than what mfp guessed me at for maintenance (well for before I started lifting, it's quite a bit higher now). And honestly 50 cals in either direction isn't going to make or break it.0 -
Increase the weight, decrease the variety of exercises and concentrate on big compunt lifts (i.e. for leg day do squats, lunges, calf raises, one set of deadlifts-train them as heavy as possible for you). You can do more than one muscle group per day, especially since you are just beginning.
Or just do starting strength-mark rippletoe. problem solved.0 -
This is my first time doing a bulk, but my understanding is that minimizing fat gain is all about hitting the right caloric sweet spot, having balanced macros, getting enough micros, getting just enough cardio to keep your biochem in gear, sleeping properly, and avoiding prolonged excessive stress. That is, assuming no untreated hyopthyroidism or adrenal issues. Track your food and your weight/body campposition to the best of your ability to see trends.0
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your routine lacks balance.
For every push exercise you should do at least one pull. Can't see any rows or lat pull downs or chins or anything.0
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