Ketogenic Diet??

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  • scottaworley
    scottaworley Posts: 871 Member
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    I don't really see a problem with a ketogenic diet in a healthy individual. HOWEVER, if you have not had blood work done recently I would get that done before you start. A ketogenic diet is pretty high in saturated fats which can be hell if you already have cholesterol issues.
  • jdm_taco
    jdm_taco Posts: 999 Member
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    no...terrible idea

    why so?

    Too restrictive, miserable, hinders performance greatly, not sustainable (mentally imo) no advantages to other forms unless you have a medical condition that requires limiting sugar or carbs.
  • leebesstoad
    leebesstoad Posts: 1,186 Member
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    I'm on the last full day of a 4 week cyclical ketogenic diet, which sounds more like what you are looking for rather than going on the standard ketogenic diet some others here are on. I will tell you I took at least a month or more to plan every step of it along the way. For CKD to work, you have to be very strict on what you eat, how hard you are willing to train. Trust me, it isn't as easy as you think. I was lucky in that I didn't have any of the adverse reactions that many have reported in the first week or so. Reports of fatigue, headaches, and massive bouts of crankiness are not uncommon. What works in my favor is that I am one of the worlds most boring eaters -- I have basically eaten the same thing every day for 4 weeks except for the dinner meal, so that was just shifting the protein source. I will run the final results on Saturday morning after I get into re-carbing, but after 3 weeks, I've lost an inch or more on my waist, hips, and thighs, which is where I store my fat. And my bf% is down a bit over 2%.. Yes, I think you probably should get medical clearance before you consider it because there are certain people that it can be very dangerous for. Of couse most medical professionals don't understand it either. And it does have some very appropriate medical uses as well (epileptic children and some cancer patients for example). But before you begin, I would recommend that you read Lyle McDonald's The Ketogenic Diet. Especially the chapters concerning the CKD. But I would recommend Chapter 8, setting calorie targets for diets for absolutely everyone. It has nothing to do with ketogenic diets at all and may be the best discussion and review of how to set calorie targets I have ever read.

    CKD has been utilized by natural bodybuilders for many years so this isn't some brand new fad. It works, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for everyone. It is probably only for a very limited few people, in fact. But for those that can do it, I believe it really can work.

    My food diaries are open if you would like to review them. Feel free to send me a message if you have any questions.
  • littlebee26
    littlebee26 Posts: 116
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    But you could get the best of both worlds and carb cycle, one day high carb lower fat, one day higher fat lower carb.. etc...

    Personally I don't see why people would remove carbs from their diet, just makes no sense to me.

    Yes, I could do that. But I don't need to. And it wouldn't make me any happier. My diet is very low on carbs as it is anyway. If I can take or leave carbs (which I can) why would I keep them in my diet. Why would I not choose the keto diet which is close to my current diet and very likely to help me in shifting the last 2-5% body fat?
  • ritchiedrama
    ritchiedrama Posts: 1,304 Member
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    But you could get the best of both worlds and carb cycle, one day high carb lower fat, one day higher fat lower carb.. etc...

    Personally I don't see why people would remove carbs from their diet, just makes no sense to me.

    Yes, I could do that. But I don't need to. And it wouldn't make me any happier. My diet is very low on carbs as it is anyway. If I can take or leave carbs (which I can) why would I keep them in my diet. Why would I not choose the keto diet which is close to my current diet and very likely to help me in shifting the last 2-5% body fat?

    Because it won't make any difference to shifting fat than just removing a few calories from any of the macros (as it will be a minor adjustment).
  • blazterx
    blazterx Posts: 10 Member
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    People get really huffed up about their carbs when you mention starting a keto diet. Here are some things to think about:

    1) Keto is about NET CARBS. This is carbs-fiber. This means you still eat tons of carbs from high fiber sources, such as vegetables. These things are also very healthy and low in calories.
    2) You do not eat simple carbs with low fiber, this is basically bread and sugar (no nutritional value anway).
    3) Eating fatty foods is very satiating and therefore makes it easy to maintain a caloric deficit (the diet is not a magical fat loss tool, you still need a caloric deficit to reduce mass.)
    4) Eating Keto also makes it easy to keep your protein up high enough to maintain your muscle while losing weight.


    I say try it for 30 days and see how you feel. If you have any questions feel free to hit me up about it.
  • highervibes
    highervibes Posts: 2,219 Member
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    You don't have to restrict carbs to have the same results. My lean mass is intact because I eat enough protein and I lift 3x/week. My fats sit at about 90g and my carbs are in the 135 range. It's not HIGH carb, but it is more balanced and it gives my body what it requires alliwing me some fun stuff too.
  • littlebee26
    littlebee26 Posts: 116
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    I'm on the last full day of a 4 week cyclical ketogenic diet, which sounds more like what you are looking for rather than going on the standard ketogenic diet some others here are on. I will tell you I took at least a month or more to plan every step of it along the way. For CKD to work, you have to be very strict on what you eat, how hard you are willing to train. Trust me, it isn't as easy as you think. I was lucky in that I didn't have any of the adverse reactions that many have reported in the first week or so. Reports of fatigue, headaches, and massive bouts of crankiness are not uncommon. What works in my favor is that I am one of the worlds most boring eaters -- I have basically eaten the same thing every day for 4 weeks except for the dinner meal, so that was just shifting the protein source. I will run the final results on Saturday morning after I get into re-carbing, but after 3 weeks, I've lost an inch or more on my waist, hips, and thighs, which is where I store my fat. And my bf% is down a bit over 2%.. Yes, I think you probably should get medical clearance before you consider it because there are certain people that it can be very dangerous for. Of couse most medical professionals don't understand it either. And it does have some very appropriate medical uses as well (epileptic children and some cancer patients for example). But before you begin, I would recommend that you read Lyle McDonald's The Ketogenic Diet. Especially the chapters concerning the CKD. But I would recommend Chapter 8, setting calorie targets for diets for absolutely everyone. It has nothing to do with ketogenic diets at all and may be the best discussion and review of how to set calorie targets I have ever read.

    CKD has been utilized by natural bodybuilders for many years so this isn't some brand new fad. It works, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for everyone. It is probably only for a very limited few people, in fact. But for those that can do it, I believe it really can work.

    My food diaries are open if you would like to review them. Feel free to send me a message if you have any questions.

    Thanks for this. There is a lot here to think about. I will definately have a look at your food diary. And I must get hold of that book.
  • littlebee26
    littlebee26 Posts: 116
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    People get really huffed up about their carbs when you mention starting a keto diet. Here are some things to think about:

    1) Keto is about NET CARBS. This is carbs-fiber. This means you still eat tons of carbs from high fiber sources, such as vegetables. These things are also very healthy and low in calories.
    2) You do not eat simple carbs with low fiber, this is basically bread and sugar (no nutritional value anway).
    3) Eating fatty foods is very satiating and therefore makes it easy to maintain a caloric deficit (the diet is not a magical fat loss tool, you still need a caloric deficit to reduce mass.)
    4) Eating Keto also makes it easy to keep your protein up high enough to maintain your muscle while losing weight.


    I say try it for 30 days and see how you feel. If you have any questions feel free to hit me up about it.

    Thanks, will do
  • leebesstoad
    leebesstoad Posts: 1,186 Member
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    Thanks for this. There is a lot here to think about. I will definately have a look at your food diary. And I must get hold of that book.

    The book is 300+ pages and explains EVERYTHING you want to know about the 3 types of keto diets: standard, targeted and cyclical. Everything and then some. It is availble for download online. It is dense reading and takes time. But I think it is almost mandatory before diving into any type of keto diet.
  • ritchiedrama
    ritchiedrama Posts: 1,304 Member
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    Don't forget, lyle (the writer of that book)

    says there is no advantages of a keto diet hehe.
  • jenn26point2
    jenn26point2 Posts: 429 Member
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    I did it for a while. I did 70% fat, 20% protein and 10% carbs. I don't recall actually losing any weight that I didn't also lose in other manners. I only did keto for like 3 months, with a couple slips that made me start over. I felt irritable though b/c I missed my carbs - i.e. strawberries, watermelon, sweet potatoes, etc.

    I think I lost 10 lbs or so while ketogenic and when I broke the ketosis, I ended up gaining some of it back (as expected), and when I went back to straight Paleo, I lost the same weight again, just as quickly.

    I do believe it'll help you get more definition by removing residual fat if you're already at a good weight and when I get to that point, I'll probably do another short stint to tighten up the flabby areas (i.e. belly) when the time comes.

    Be wary of high protein though - too much protein is converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis in the liver (check out Dr. Attia's blog at www.eatingacademy.com for more info on this). There are calculators out there that will help you determine how many calories to eat and what your macro breakdown should be to accommodate. And MFP has add-ins that you can use through IE9 and Google Chrome to help you see your overall daily percentages. The instructions for doing this are available out there in the Google world.

    Also, look at info put out by Drs. Volek and Phinney. They have two (maybe more) books on Amazon focusing on ketosis - one is for athletes.

    Good luck!
  • littlebee26
    littlebee26 Posts: 116
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    Don't forget, lyle (the writer of that book)

    says there is no advantages of a keto diet hehe.

    Well, in fairness how could there be. This is about bringing down body fat %. And there are many ways to achieve this. Keto is one. Its up to each individual to find a system that works for them. If you can do that, and you are satisfied with your method and results - sound!
  • leebesstoad
    leebesstoad Posts: 1,186 Member
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    Don't forget, lyle (the writer of that book)

    says there is no advantages of a keto diet hehe.

    That is taking what he said totally out of context.
  • TribeHokie
    TribeHokie Posts: 711 Member
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    Well, its common sense that processed foods and artificial sweetners are not healthy so I don't think anyone can really argue with that. Would a paleo version of the keto diet not leave you limited in what you can eat though? Could I send you a friend request and have a peek in you diary??

    Did you just say that to get a reaction? Because seriously....do you even read the forums bro?
    As I already said above - Why is it so inconceivable to some people that I may not need that flexiblity. Sheesh, everyone is different. I like rigidity. I'm an intense person. And I'm cool with that ;)

    Just because I couldn't resist, who doesn't like a bit of rigidity in their life? :wink:

    And to answer your question for real, if structure is what you need then go with a structured plan. It sounds like you have your mind made up anyway so just do it and see how it works for you. There are plenty of people who have had success with keto, as well as plenty of people who had success and then gained weight back for various reasons. If you want to cut carbs then do it, but don't be one of those naive people who think carbs are the enemy. Based on your response to the "the author of that book even admits keto doesn't have any advantage" comment it sounds like you know this already and are really just looking for an eating plan that you will enjoy. So try it.
  • jdm_taco
    jdm_taco Posts: 999 Member
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    Coz their an idiot... I've never done Keto but I'm not ignorant enough to refute a type of diet that has worked at even at the top levels of bodybuilding

    No need to be rude, lil fella.

    I never said it didn't work. I guess at your age, your reading comprehension is still underdeveloped.
  • Delicate
    Delicate Posts: 625 Member
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    Go for it, I feel healthier without carbs and find it wierd when people defend them so rigidly, people dont have the same tastes.

    Give me bacon instead of chocolates, and i'll be happy

    Although keto is higher fat, med protein and low carbs.
  • leebesstoad
    leebesstoad Posts: 1,186 Member
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    Well, in fairness how could there be. This is about bringing down body fat %. And there are many ways to achieve this. Keto is one. Its up to each individual to find a system that works for them. If you can do that, and you are satisfied with your method and results - sound!

    Exactly right Littlebee. There is no one way to lose weight or lose bf. What works for one will not work for another. And that is the point that Lyle was making in the article referenced:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html

    It's finding what works for you. That's why I tried the cyclical keto diet. It was 4 weeks. At worst, it was 4 weeks. It couldn't do any harm and might do some good. I got medical clearance first. And I was monitoring everything, every step of the way. I was ready to pull the plug at any time. But I've seen positive results. Would everyone No. Can everyone do it? Lord no. Only a very few could, as I tell my MFP friends list following this experiment (which is what it is). But for me, my personality, my eating style, my workout style, and what I was looking to get out of it, it's worked. I know I'm a small subset of the populace. But that is what it is for.
  • littlebee26
    littlebee26 Posts: 116
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    Coz their an idiot... I've never done Keto but I'm not ignorant enough to refute a type of diet that has worked at even at the top levels of bodybuilding

    No need to be rude, lil fella.

    I never said it didn't work. I guess at your age, you reading comprehension is still underdeveloped.

    *your reading comprehension. Keep an eye on your grammar big fella ;)
  • highervibes
    highervibes Posts: 2,219 Member
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    no...terrible idea

    why so?

    Coz there an idiot... I've never done Keto but I'm not ignorant enough to refute a type of diet that has worked at even at the top levels of bodybuilding

    The fact that this was edited to change your initial incorrect use of the word "their" to "there" made me LOL. The irony.

    ETA: It's the other other one lol

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