Thoughts on this decision?
Replies
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I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
HMMMM I dont think so. The way I read this thread, is the only people talking about hate are the people that support the lgbt community. Boy it is easy to blame Christians for everything isnt it. Is that in the book too?
seems to me its the lgbt people who want equal rights for all and its christians that want to deny them their rights. that all comes from your book doesnt it?
On the other side of the fence, it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.0 -
It's not a double standard to expect equal treatment before the law. Nobody says you have to agree with it. Just apply the law equally.it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.0 -
I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
HMMMM I dont think so. The way I read this thread, is the only people talking about hate are the people that support the lgbt community. Boy it is easy to blame Christians for everything isnt it. Is that in the book too?
seems to me its the lgbt people who want equal rights for all and its christians that want to deny them their rights. that all comes from your book doesnt it?
On the other side of the fence, it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.
i honestly feel sorry for you. that's the kind of thinking people used to support segregation. never should have allowed interracial marriages either right? it doesnt hurt you to allow gay people to marry but it does hurt them to deny it.
its you that have hate in your heart. and i think deep down you realize it and thats why you are running away from this discussion.0 -
Ah, found it. I found the court decision document that referred to the actual statute. That surprises me they have that protected given NM does not currently have same sex marriage.What I'm wondering is what law was broken that this had a court case. There is protection for race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, disability, age (over 40), but I do not believe sexual orientation is legally protected against discrimination currently.
The article says NM extended protections based on sexual identity as well.0 -
For the record, I'm strongly on the side of LBGT rights.
However, this is ridiculous.
This. They own a private business and they can take whatever clients they want. Let paying customers decide whether they want to spend their money with them or not.
Agreed.0 -
I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
HMMMM I dont think so. The way I read this thread, is the only people talking about hate are the people that support the lgbt community. Boy it is easy to blame Christians for everything isnt it. Is that in the book too?
seems to me its the lgbt people who want equal rights for all and its christians that want to deny them their rights. that all comes from your book doesnt it?
On the other side of the fence, it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.
IKR? I mean, who the hell are they to want to be treated like human beings and have the same rights are other people? Why don't we just bring back in color segregation too? In fact, why don't we ban women from voting and kick them out of school at 12?
Oh wait, it's because people deserve equal rights regardless of gender, race, or sexuality.0 -
I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
HMMMM I dont think so. The way I read this thread, is the only people talking about hate are the people that support the lgbt community. Boy it is easy to blame Christians for everything isnt it. Is that in the book too?
seems to me its the lgbt people who want equal rights for all and its christians that want to deny them their rights. that all comes from your book doesnt it?
On the other side of the fence, it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.
A person is entitled to their religious belief, but the law should be separate from it. Until the government steps up and says that the *insert religion* church is legally required to perform same sex marriage I don't see how this has become an issue. When someone sells a public service they are bound by the law.0 -
Let me guess...........you're a Cowboys' fan?On the other side of the fence, it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.
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This. They own a private business and they can take whatever clients they want. Let paying customers decide whether they want to spend their money with them or not.
Agreed
Agreed II
Agreed III
Agreed IV0 -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.0
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I'm suprised this thread is going so well.
Well Duh lol. Of the 15 posters or so that have put their opinions for all to see, all of them agree.
As for me, I think, they have a right based on their beliefs to not support the lbgt community by refusing to take the pictures of the "wedding". But we all know that those rights as Christians dont mean much anymore especially if they go against the liberal progressive agenda. Just sayin...
Well now you had to edit it and ruin everything... Boo on you. I'm going to assume you are kidding about christians not having rights
Apparently in New Mexico they dont. A Christian chooses not to photograph a lbgt couple based on their religous beliefs and they are sued and lose. The court says they dont have a right to do that.
Being religious does not give you the right to discriminate sorry but it doesn't .
Funny how you never hear about christians refusing services to divorced people, or for that matter I wonder if the photographer ever refused to shoot pictures in a church that allows women to speak. All no nos in the bible. If its really only about a strong belief in the bible why not stick to all of it?
Im sorry but your position doesnt hold water. So if I understand you correctly, only certain people can be discriminated against because their beliefs. lbgt people shouldnt be discriminated against because of their beliefs and be able to do whatever their little hearts desire, even making someone do something such as support their cause, even when it goes against their faith (there is a nasty word isnt it for non believers?) That is awesome. I love the double standard and I am not surprised.
OH and women did preach in New Testament times. Just sayin...
Now you didn't answer my question the bible is against divorce, yet you see no protests about that, you see no one refusing service to divorced people. The bible says women are not to speak in church yet there are no christian groups trying to pop up and pass laws against that. If a christians faith is so strong why don't they stand for all the bible? If its not just about being a bigot? Lgbt people don't chose to be who they are which is what you are suggesting . There is no double standard. The Christian persecution act is played out and not working well. You can't scream about one section of the bible while compleatly ignoring others. By your logic places should be able to go back to denying service to people for the color of their skin. Its funny my grandma had stacks and stacks of newspaper articles from the times when people were fight for equal rights for all races. Those that were opposed to it sound just like today's poor picked on christians. All you would have to do is replace the word black with gay.0 -
I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
FYI, I used the word hate, quoting a boy who came out of the closet and how hard it was because his mother was constantly saying that we should not accept anyone who is LGBT. It is not about forcing anyone to beleive differently, it is about accepting that someone else is different. If your own son or daughter was gay what would you do? Would you tell them to move out? I know a boy who came out and his mother told him if he ever brings another boy home, she will disown him. The father supported him best he could. Basically her lack of acceptance is tearing the family apart. Kids who are gay are more likely to attempt suicide, is that about being loved or being hated?
I use the word hate because I know lots of people who say "OMG , he was in church, he is gay" (my best friend) or my daughter who can't even talk to her own Aunt about it. Or my mother who says "I accept you for who you are, but don't do it in public or tell any of my friends that you are gay". So hate may be a strong word and extreme, but my daughter feels like her own family is embarrassed by her.
Also remember that separate but equal had to be fought against. Do you think we should go back to that? Change and acceptance take time.0 -
I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
HMMMM I dont think so. The way I read this thread, is the only people talking about hate are the people that support the lgbt community. Boy it is easy to blame Christians for everything isnt it. Is that in the book too?
seems to me its the lgbt people who want equal rights for all and its christians that want to deny them their rights. that all comes from your book doesnt it?
On the other side of the fence, it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.
Example: I have the legal right to swing my arms wildly. That right ends at your nose. You have the right to practice your religious beliefs however you want up until the point it interferes with someone else's legal rights or protections: those protections that apply to all citizens, not strictly Christian citizens.0 -
Ok I'm having a bad day so I have to chime in LOL
1. As a rational person, I agree with the IDEA that any business owner should be able to refuse services to whom they want.
2. As a gay man, if you refuse me your services, I'm gonna sue you, because the law says I can't pee on you, you butthat.
3. As a theologian, I have YET to see the rule/commandment that says "Thou shall not photograph two fully dressed people wearing polyester." Stop hiding behind "belief", because you feel icky about something. Be honest and say outright that you can't photograph us because all you're thinking about is sex, and that's too distracting.
4. As a social worker, I can tell you - discriminate enough against ANYONE, and they're going to fight back at a certain point. We're not talking about double standards here. We're just saying we're tired of being second class just because we do things in the bedroom that some people don't approve of (and really shouldn't be concerning themselves with in the first place).0 -
:drinker:Ok I'm having a bad day so I have to chime in LOL
1. As a rational person, I agree with the IDEA that any business owner should be able to refuse services to whom they want.
2. As a gay man, if you refuse me your services, I'm gonna sue you, because the law says I can't pee on you, you butthat.
3. As a theologian, I have YET to see the rule/commandment that says "Thou shall not photograph two fully dressed people wearing polyester." Stop hiding behind "belief", because you feel icky about something. Be honest and say outright that you can't photograph us because all you're thinking about is sex, and that's too distracting.
4. As a social worker, I can tell you - discriminate enough against ANYONE, and they're going to fight back at a certain point. We're not talking about double standards here. We're just saying we're tired of being second class just because we do things in the bedroom that some people don't approve of (and really shouldn't be concerning themselves with in the first place).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I am also a libertarian but I do admit that this would only work so long as the majority of people in the area agree that SS couples should be treated equally. If the majority of people in the area agreed with the photo company then the free market would actually reward them for their bigotry. Still I would think that there must be a solution that does not involve government intervention.For the record, I'm strongly on the side of LBGT rights.
However, this is ridiculous.
This. They own a private business and they can take whatever clients they want. Let paying customers decide whether they want to spend their money with them or not.
I am conflicted though.
If a couple went to a restaurant and were refused service because of same sex, I'd be pretty upset about that.
I guess I'd rather know and not give them my money. Forcing them to serve a same sex couple because its the law won't make them any less bigoted or hostile. I'm a huge libertarian though--the less the government is involved in anything the better.0 -
I would be interested in hearing how your atheist friends would try to justify a ban on same sex marriage since calling something gross and unnatural is not sufficient justification to support a ban. They would have to be able to demonstrate how they or others are actually harmed by their marriages and being grossed out does not count as harm.I love it when people who support the lbgt community use the word HATE when it comes to a Christian's belief and faith. Is there a book out there that yall use so that yall use the same words and phrases when it comes to bashing Christians and others that dont support your cause?
they probably learned it from christians right? they are the ones trying to deny them the right to be married along with all the other things christians have tried to deny from others over the years.
I know quite a few athiests that don't think gay men should be able to marry because they think it's gross and unnatural.
Anyway, I 100% agree that this shouldn't even be an issue anymore--LGBT rights don't hurt or affect anybody in a negative way, but I'm also Catholic (and openly bisexual lol) and wouldn't even say most Christians don't believe in LGBT rights, it's just the ignorant, the small-minded, and the extremist Christians that give everyone else a bad reputation.0 -
Ok I'm having a bad day so I have to chime in LOL
1. As a rational person, I agree with the IDEA that any business owner should be able to refuse services to whom they want.
2. As a gay man, if you refuse me your services, I'm gonna sue you, because the law says I can't pee on you, you butthat.
3. As a theologian, I have YET to see the rule/commandment that says "Thou shall not photograph two fully dressed people wearing polyester." Stop hiding behind "belief", because you feel icky about something. Be honest and say outright that you can't photograph us because all you're thinking about is sex, and that's too distracting.
4. As a social worker, I can tell you - discriminate enough against ANYONE, and they're going to fight back at a certain point. We're not talking about double standards here. We're just saying we're tired of being second class just because we do things in the bedroom that some people don't approve of (and really shouldn't be concerning themselves with in the first place).
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There you go, bringing your religion into this again! :laugh:Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.0 -
Me too. "Icky!" is not a rational basis for discrimination before the law. If it was, women would not be allowed to breastfeed in public, because some butthats (stealing that, BTW!) are going to think it's "icky".I would be interested in hearing how your atheist friends would try to justify a ban on same sex marriage since calling something gross and unnatural is not sufficient justification to support a ban. They would have to be able to demonstrate how they or others are actually harmed by their marriages and being grossed out does not count as harm.0 -
Ok I'm having a bad day so I have to chime in LOL
1. As a rational person, I agree with the IDEA that any business owner should be able to refuse services to whom they want.
2. As a gay man, if you refuse me your services, I'm gonna sue you, because the law says I can't pee on you, you butthat.
3. As a theologian, I have YET to see the rule/commandment that says "Thou shall not photograph two fully dressed people wearing polyester." Stop hiding behind "belief", because you feel icky about something. Be honest and say outright that you can't photograph us because all you're thinking about is sex, and that's too distracting.
4. As a social worker, I can tell you - discriminate enough against ANYONE, and they're going to fight back at a certain point. We're not talking about double standards here. We're just saying we're tired of being second class just because we do things in the bedroom that some people don't approve of (and really shouldn't be concerning themselves with in the first place).
Clearly I need to oppress you harder.
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Funny how you never hear about christians refusing services to divorced people, or for that matter I wonder if the photographer ever refused to shoot pictures in a church that allows women to speak. All no nos in the bible. If its really only about a strong belief in the bible why not stick to all of it?
EXACTLY. That's why it's hard to accept "it's against my religion" as a legitimate excuse for hatred and discrimination against LGBT people, because both the old and new testaments have a whole lot of forbidden things that none of the bible-thumpers ever mention. Such as people who remarry after divorce are committing adultery, or that a *kitten* and the next 10 generations of his family may not enter the church, that non-virgin girls must be stoned to death, and lots of other fun rules. So when some bigot innocently throws up their hands and says "It's not ME, it's THE BIBLE"...they're just full of ****. They pick and choose bible verses to fit their personal agenda.0 -
It isn't like they were issued their religion either. Most believers do tend to follow the religion that was taught to them by their parents but you do have a brain and you can and should evaluated those teaching against reality and not the other way around. My parents raised me to be catholic and when I was a kid I didn't have a choice.Funny how you never hear about christians refusing services to divorced people, or for that matter I wonder if the photographer ever refused to shoot pictures in a church that allows women to speak. All no nos in the bible. If its really only about a strong belief in the bible why not stick to all of it?
EXACTLY. That's why it's hard to accept "it's against my religion" as a legitimate excuse for hatred and discrimination against LGBT people, because both the old and new testaments have a whole lot of forbidden things that none of the bible-thumpers ever mention. Such as people who remarry after divorce are committing adultery, or that a *kitten* and the next 10 generations of his family may not enter the church, that non-virgin girls must be stoned to death, and lots of other fun rules. So when some bigot innocently throws up their hands and says "It's not ME, it's THE BIBLE"...they're just full of ****. They pick and choose bible verses to fit their personal agenda.
After I was out of the house I did my own research and found that the bible is a collections of opinions written by the men that held them years ago. If a person reads the bible and it says that homosexuals are an abomination it is then up to that person to decide if they agree with that statement or not.0 -
We have a similar lawsuit here locally with a Florist. The kicker of this case is that the owner of Arlene's Flowers had been serving these two men for years knowing they were a gay couple, they were loyal customers right up until the day they decided they would (legally in Washington) marry, she refused because her Christian beliefs are against gay marriage (but apparently were ok for her to supply gay men with flowers to one another on special ocassions).
She's being sued by the WA state attorney general and the ACLU. Then a religious freedom group, Alliance Defending Freedom, countersued the state on behalf of the owner, saying her religious rights were being infringed upon.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/gay-wedding-flowers-case_n_3516294.html0 -
Ok I'm having a bad day so I have to chime in LOL
1. As a rational person, I agree with the IDEA that any business owner should be able to refuse services to whom they want.
2. As a gay man, if you refuse me your services, I'm gonna sue you, because the law says I can't pee on you, you butthat.
3. As a theologian, I have YET to see the rule/commandment that says "Thou shall not photograph two fully dressed people wearing polyester." Stop hiding behind "belief", because you feel icky about something. Be honest and say outright that you can't photograph us because all you're thinking about is sex, and that's too distracting.
4. As a social worker, I can tell you - discriminate enough against ANYONE, and they're going to fight back at a certain point. We're not talking about double standards here. We're just saying we're tired of being second class just because we do things in the bedroom that some people don't approve of (and really shouldn't be concerning themselves with in the first place).
Thank you. Yes. Amen.
And for the record I am gay, Christian, and trained to be a pastor (although not yet ordained). "Gay" and "Christian" are not mutually-exclusive categories. In any case, the law about non-discrimination is secular law and should be followed or else the non-law-abiding folk should expect legal ramifications to their decision to break that law.0 -
it looks like that lgbt people want to force their will on others whose beliefs and faith goes against that. It looks like the lgbt people want it their way and everyone should just except it and they wont quit until they get their way. Hmmm, its funny how that works. In your mind its ok to force your beliefs on someone but if someone doesnt agree with your belief they are haters. Your double standards are obvious and that is all I have to say to you. Have a nice night.
[/quote
]It's not a double standard to expect equal treatment before the law. Nobody says you have to agree with it. Just apply the law equally.
Yes, exactly.
Is illegal to discriminate in Australia for sexual identity (and other things like race, gender etc) - this does not mean people have to agree or approve of same sex relationships, only that they cannot discriminate in terms of service, employment etc.
Incidentally same sex marriages are not legal in Australia either (although quite likely they will become so in the relatively near future) - but same sex relationships are.
Is no different really to someone saying they do not approve of sex before marriage - fair enough, that is their belief - but they do not have the right to discriminate against those in de facto relationships. Or those in mixed race relationships or big age gap relationships etc etc.0 -
sorry, still not getting this quoting stuff right - but I think you can see what I am saying.0
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