Need help/advice from people who run with their dog.
contingencyplan
Posts: 3,639 Member
Need help from dog owners: I am trying to get into the habit of going for runs with my dog (who has endless amounts of energy) but he doesn't respond well to conventional means of leash training as he seems to have an overpowering hunting/tracking prey drive while outdoors, so he runs ahead and wants to pull on the leash. I know that before I can take him out and trying to run with him (to say nothing of my own issues with running) I have to address this. But after two times through two different obedience schools he just doesn't seem responsive to any conventional leash training techniques. Any advice? He is also not very food motivated. He will ignore something you give him in favor of something he has to track and hunt. For the record, he is a Duck Tolling Retriever (highly energetic hunting/tracking breed that is a mix of the golden retriever, spaniel, and border collie). It just seems like he is dead set on doing the job he was bred for and won't let anything stand in the way.
We have him trained fairly well when indoors, but he enters into a totally different "time to go to work" mentality when outdoors and the only thing he responds to is a whistle I carry with me which he interprets as a recall.
We have him trained fairly well when indoors, but he enters into a totally different "time to go to work" mentality when outdoors and the only thing he responds to is a whistle I carry with me which he interprets as a recall.
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Replies
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Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm0 -
Let me tell you the two things that helped with my BC mix:
A gentle leader for walking
and a specialized harness for running. It attaches at the dog's chest. If he runs off, it torques him a funny direction.0 -
Getsoda's suggestion is probably the easiest.
Does he have a favourite toy? The police dogs here (also high drive/high energy) are trained with a tug you and a game of tug as a reward. They use it for teaching the heel as well.0 -
Getsoda's suggestion is probably the easiest.
Does he have a favourite toy? The police dogs here (also high drive/high energy) are trained with a tug you and a game of tug as a reward. They use it for teaching the heel as well.
He doesn't play with toys. We bought him a bunch but he doesn't care for them. He also doesn't seem to respond very well to food. When outdoors he ignores any treats or food you give him in favor of the prospect of having to hunt and track for his food. He will take it from your hand then drop it and get back to the hunt. I have never seen a dog with such a one track mind. No reward, no food, no toys, no nothing. Just the act of running and hunting.0 -
Getsoda's suggestion is probably the easiest.
Does he have a favourite toy? The police dogs here (also high drive/high energy) are trained with a tug you and a game of tug as a reward. They use it for teaching the heel as well.
He doesn't play with toys. We bought him a bunch but he doesn't care for them. He also doesn't seem to respond very well to food. When outdoors he ignores any treats or food you give him in favor of the prospect of having to hunt and track for his food. He will take it from your hand then drop it and get back to the hunt. I have never seen a dog with such a one track mind. No reward, no food, no toys, no nothing. Just the act of running and hunting.
Not retrieving?0 -
Getsoda's suggestion is probably the easiest.
Does he have a favourite toy? The police dogs here (also high drive/high energy) are trained with a tug you and a game of tug as a reward. They use it for teaching the heel as well.
He doesn't play with toys. We bought him a bunch but he doesn't care for them. He also doesn't seem to respond very well to food. When outdoors he ignores any treats or food you give him in favor of the prospect of having to hunt and track for his food. He will take it from your hand then drop it and get back to the hunt. I have never seen a dog with such a one track mind. No reward, no food, no toys, no nothing. Just the act of running and hunting.
Not retrieving?
He doesn't seem to want to bring things back, just go hunt and track. It's all about tracking.0 -
Getsoda's suggestion is probably the easiest.
Does he have a favourite toy? The police dogs here (also high drive/high energy) are trained with a tug you and a game of tug as a reward. They use it for teaching the heel as well.
He doesn't play with toys. We bought him a bunch but he doesn't care for them. He also doesn't seem to respond very well to food. When outdoors he ignores any treats or food you give him in favor of the prospect of having to hunt and track for his food. He will take it from your hand then drop it and get back to the hunt. I have never seen a dog with such a one track mind. No reward, no food, no toys, no nothing. Just the act of running and hunting.
Not retrieving?
He doesn't seem to want to bring things back, just go hunt and track. It's all about tracking.
I understand. Have your tried GetSoda's suggestion before?0 -
Getsoda's suggestion is probably the easiest.
Does he have a favourite toy? The police dogs here (also high drive/high energy) are trained with a tug you and a game of tug as a reward. They use it for teaching the heel as well.
He doesn't play with toys. We bought him a bunch but he doesn't care for them. He also doesn't seem to respond very well to food. When outdoors he ignores any treats or food you give him in favor of the prospect of having to hunt and track for his food. He will take it from your hand then drop it and get back to the hunt. I have never seen a dog with such a one track mind. No reward, no food, no toys, no nothing. Just the act of running and hunting.
Not retrieving?
He doesn't seem to want to bring things back, just go hunt and track. It's all about tracking.
I understand. Have your tried GetSoda's suggestion before?
No, I should look into the Gentle Leader.0 -
My dog is the same way. He is absolutely brilliant. At dog school, shining star. In real life...total insanity! He's a 2 year old lab/great dane mix. He knows all of his commands, he understands English better than most Canadians and he is an excellent retriever. I hide a duck in the forest and he can find it and bring it back in about 30 seconds. Amazing. But the freak will never stop pulling on the leash!!!
I take him on all my outdoor runs. If you really can't get him trained, try running with him off leash at dog friendly trails, if you have any in the area. (note: a lot of trails are not cool with dogs off leash, so be careful in choosing).
When I take him on leash.... well.....all 90 lbs of him pulls me and I just have to run faster to keep up. It's a decent workout
Maybe try some Casear Millan videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfVhr330RjI 0 -
get a cat,0
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Try a Gentle Leader. Works wonders.0
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get a cat,
Bad, bad idea. Have one already. Poor cat.0 -
gentle leader.....huge difference!!!0
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I have 4 labs (and had 2 others that have passed away in the last couple of years), the only thing that works for them is a prong collar. We went to a trainer that specialized in using them. We tried gentle leaders, didn't work on any of them. We tried harnesses - same thing but these were worse as the dogs were much less controllable.
If you consider a prong collar, make sure that you either research how to use it or take your pup to an obedience school that utilizes it. You really need to understand the correct methods.
That said, I only have one dog that I can run with now...2 have too strong of a prey drive and I live in the country with too many good smells and one has hip dysplasia (at 11 months) so he can't.0 -
My dog pulls and wants to run after everything - deer, squirrels, rabbits, birds etc.... She wears a harness and I have a retractable lease clipped on to the harness, when she is pulling and trying to run off or ahead of me then I wrap the leash under her belly - this is what our humane society told me to do to help to train her from pulling and running off and it seems to be working.0
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Let me tell you the two things that helped with my BC mix:
A gentle leader for walking
and a specialized harness for running. It attaches at the dog's chest. If he runs off, it torques him a funny direction.
This. I have a dachshund that loves to run, but he too also wants to hunt and track the second he gets outside. They just can't help it. Instinct takes over. Lucky for me I can control a 20 lb dog with a harness (but don't let his size fool you. That dog can pull!) and he's started to learn to keep in line with me the more we practice. Just know you will need to practice this and don't expect to get in a good work out the first several times you do it. I would run for a half mile to a mile and take my doxie back before finishing my run alone.0 -
I used to take my dog (German Shepherd) on runs with me, primarily because he's intimidating to look at and I used to run on a rural trail in my area. He wore a choke collar and I used a retractable leash. I'd have it short and locked if people were around, but when we passed, I unlocked the leash and he would take off. A gentle jerk got him back on track, but this way he could run ahead and sniff/pee on whatever and he really didn't slow me down (I'm slow to begin with, though). The problem was that he tuckered out long before I was done running, so now I don't take him anymore.
I'm of no help, but that was my experience!0 -
Gentle Leader and a double strap leash. One in your right hand, the other in your left. Hold the left all the way down by the collar. They have no where to go except by your side. Works great!0
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Gentle Leaders are awesome...
I have a 70 lb prey driven pit bull mix I run with on the canals and ever time she used to see a rabbit or cat she would take me on a not so joy ride.. Felt like my shoulder was being ripped out of my socket and almost fell in the canal once...
At first she threw a fit with the gentle leader and it took at least a month before she would stop tring to rip it off her face but now (4-5 months in) she practically puts it on herself because she knows it means a nice fun run outside.
I also live in AZ and my overweight pitty doesn't do well in the heat so I usually just have her wear it for the first couple miles until she gets a litte worn out and into the pace of the run because I don't want to restrict her panting which is a dogs way of cooling themselves down and not over-exhausting themselves so watch out for that as well.
Good Luck!0 -
Let me tell you the two things that helped with my BC mix:
A gentle leader for walking
and a specialized harness for running. It attaches at the dog's chest. If he runs off, it torques him a funny direction.
A harness will do wonders for you. My friend's husky is nearly uncontrollable on a normal leash (especially if you say "mush" lol). Try it with a leash that has some sort of spring in it so that even when he does pull fast, he'll be pulled right back.0 -
I've found that if I take my dog for a 30-40 minute walk before running with him, he behaves much better while we're running. I think it gives him time to mark his territory and go #2 if he needs too.0
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I've also heard that martingale collars are great for dogs that pull- my friend's husky was a terrible puller per-martingale.
For my husky, we use an electric collar. It has about the zing of static electricity, so not painful, but definitely gets his attention and lets him know that the behavior he is doing at that moment is 100% unwanted, and he desists. It's more expensive than the martingale, though, so I would go with that option first if I had to start over.
Good luck!0 -
I've also heard that martingale collars are great for dogs that pull- my friend's husky was a terrible puller per-martingale.
For my husky, we use an electric collar. It has about the zing of static electricity, so not painful, but definitely gets his attention and lets him know that the behavior he is doing at that moment is 100% unwanted, and he desists. It's more expensive than the martingale, though, so I would go with that option first if I had to start over.
Good luck!
I use a martingale for my golden/shepherd mix. I she's had one on her ever since she was a puppy so she thinks it's as harsh as a prong collar... lol such a baby... my pit mix though laughs at the martingale and sees it as challenge of how far she can pull before she asphyxiates herself.0 -
I too have a prey driven pitbull mix who loves to lunge off the trail and towards the brown bunnies that live near our neighboorhood. The choke collars did nothing for her. She would choke herself silly and it never stopped her. The gentle leader did work wonders though because it pulls her whole face and head up toward me and it forces her to look at me and helps to break her out of the trance. It takes a few weeks for them to get used to though. And everytime we try a new route it is like she has to re-learn it again. Jogging the same route over and over she seems to realize what she is there to do, jog next to me on the side walk not go hunt prey down. Hope this helps! Don't give up on your dog it is a great work out for them and they really do enjoy once they get the hang of what you want them to do.0
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I'm not a fan of the gentle leader, particularly since the dogs I seen them on tended to lunge. It's not pleasant watching a dogs neck snap to the side like that. There's another one out (not sure what the name is) where the leash is on the back so instead of snapping the neck around to the side when they dart (since the leash is attached to the front) it just pushes down on the nose. If your dog has a tenancy to dart, it's going to violently snap the dogs neck to the side. I'd also worry about constantly pulling on one side of his neck if he's a puller, particularly if he doesn't walk well. If he constantly pulls to one side straining one side of the neck cannot be good.
If you get one, be careful and be aware and in control of how the collar reacts in different situations. Also, be prepared for the furr to potentially rub off his nose.
My friend has one similar to the bottom left and I like it since it doesn't twist their neck towards you when they pull. There's also a world of difference when I use it (they have 3 boxers, so they sometimes need help for walks lol). I also liked that one because since their head wasn't snapping around, it wasn't rubbing the nose half so much so they weren't losing fur around their noses.0 -
Yup.. Gentle Leader. They're cheap on Amazon.
It takes more time, but clicker training outdoors to help with prey drive/becoming more obedient in general. Slowly teaching them calm behavior otherwise no fun at all. There are a lot of helpful videos on youtube/all over the internet. The second you walk out the door if there is pulling, go back in and start over. If the dog pulls, you switch direction.
You'll be going in circles and restarting for a while but the dog WILL eventually become bored and become obedient. Over time this will form a habit and the dog will understand what happens.0 -
I have a 90 pound lab who I could control with dental floss he is so obedient -- he is not very good at running though so he doesn't get to go out on runs -- only walks.
My 65 pound mixed breed who has the strongest hunt/tracking sense was terrible on his leash or harness. He would try to drag you about and your arm hurt so bad he was forced to stay in. He didn't care if he was choking himself he would pull. The harness was worse because he thought he was supposed to pull more. We hired a trainer to work with us and now he is the BEST dog. We use the pronged collar for walking and running ONLY. He learned not to pull very quickly (under about 5 minutes). It was an amazing transformation and he can run now -- he runs/walks even with me on my right side. BUT we take breaks -- he gets about 1 minute of release time where he gets to smell the roses and make his business for every 20 minutes we are out. I get water or take a quick break. It is our agreement and he does wonderful now.0 -
If you want to actually train the dog, the gentle leader won't train. Just gives you control of the head so you have more control of the dog. It's a great tool, don't get me wrong. But as soon as it comes off the dog will likely behave the same way. I wouldn't even waste time/money on a martingale, they're less effective than a choke chain.
When I am competing and training for heel work I make sure I have my dogs' attention, otherwise they go to la-la land and they want to do their own thing. You need SOMETHING that motivates your dog. High Value treats or something (even steak or chicken breast!). If it's a hunting dog get a bird wing..something that makes them want to work. What I do is start walking and as soon as I see them distracted and wanting to go their own way I stop dead in my tracks and turn around and start to walk in the opposite direction. The dog kind of goes "oh wait, what happened?!" and when they catch up with you reward it. I like the clicker to mark the behavior (walking beside me) and treat after a click. When they start to forge ahead of you, again, stop change directions. You will see after awhile they keep closer to you.0 -
If you really can't get him trained, try running with him off leash at dog friendly trails, if you have any in the area.
This is horrible advice. If your dog is not trained the last thing you want to do is take them off leash where you have zero control.0 -
If you want to actually train the dog, the gentle leader won't train. Just gives you control of the head so you have more control of the dog. It's a great tool, don't get me wrong. But as soon as it comes off the dog will likely behave the same way. I wouldn't even waste time/money on a martingale, they're less effective than a choke chain.
When I am competing and training for heel work I make sure I have my dogs' attention, otherwise they go to la-la land and they want to do their own thing. You need SOMETHING that motivates your dog. High Value treats or something (even steak or chicken breast!). If it's a hunting dog get a bird wing..something that makes them want to work. What I do is start walking and as soon as I see them distracted and wanting to go their own way I stop dead in my tracks and turn around and start to walk in the opposite direction. The dog kind of goes "oh wait, what happened?!" and when they catch up with you reward it. I like the clicker to mark the behavior (walking beside me) and treat after a click. When they start to forge ahead of you, again, stop change directions. You will see after awhile they keep closer to you.
The high value treat concept is something we've tried over and over again. The problem is that the act of the hunt itself is the only thing that rewards him. He does not respond to any food you try to give him while he is in his hunting mentality, and if you stop so he can't go anymore, he seems go into a sort of panic. Outdoors, he seems to enter into a state of mind where he needs the freedom to move around as much as he does air to breathe. If I try to get him to heel, he seems to go into some sort of semi-panicked state, similar to what you would see from a claustrophobic locked in a closet.0
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