Need help/advice from people who run with their dog.

2

Replies

  • kaned_ferret
    kaned_ferret Posts: 618 Member
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    This is the most barbaric advice and piece of equipment. why should pain be used as a fallback for poor training?

    For the record I am a dog trainer and have worked with thousands of dogs, and am thankful these awful devices are comparitively rarely used in my country.

    From a pure health and safety perspective, you want to run with the dog on a harness ideally, not any form of neck or head collar. As you have identified, training needs to take place first. I would recommend a few of the following videos on youtube to help you there:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvSxr2uA16M

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O5VY7RbsdM

    From a motivation perspective, using premack would work nicely here as food rewards are not identified as high value enough (I'm presuming you've tried things like beef, duck, sausage, cheese etc?)
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    One concern to keep in mind with a pronged collar is if your dog ever bites someone or gets into a fight, in a civil suit the person sueing you can bring up the use of a pronged collar to show your lack of control over your dog which = negligence.
  • kaned_ferret
    kaned_ferret Posts: 618 Member
    here's another nice one. I would encourage you to look into clicker training as a method to teach this as it is incredibly successful when done right

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkZNfZNQmo
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    One concern to keep in mind with a pronged collar is if your dog ever bites someone or gets into a fight, in a civil suit the person sueing you can bring up the use of a pronged collar to show your lack of control over your dog which = negligence.

    I have never seen or heard that before. That's a little far fetched. A prong collar is a training tool and is used to give a correction, not unlike other tools.

    As others have mentioned I'm not generally a fan of the GL but the fact that he has been through two training classes with no success it is the lesser of two evils.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    here's another nice one. I would encourage you to look into clicker training as a method to teach this as it is incredibly successful when done right

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkZNfZNQmo

    What do you suggest as a reward for the clicker?
  • Jewles1285
    Jewles1285 Posts: 119
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    what she said...i call it a pinch collar. When they pull it makes it uncomfortable for then. It has worked wonders for my GSD as well!
  • cassienoe
    cassienoe Posts: 126 Member
    here's another nice one. I would encourage you to look into clicker training as a method to teach this as it is incredibly successful when done right

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkZNfZNQmo

    What do you suggest as a reward for the clicker?

    Whatever the dog responds to
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    here's another nice one. I would encourage you to look into clicker training as a method to teach this as it is incredibly successful when done right

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkZNfZNQmo

    What do you suggest as a reward for the clicker?

    Whatever the dog responds to

    I believe that is part of the issue here. The dog is not motivated by food or toys.
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    One concern to keep in mind with a pronged collar is if your dog ever bites someone or gets into a fight, in a civil suit the person sueing you can bring up the use of a pronged collar to show your lack of control over your dog which = negligence.

    I have never seen or heard that before. That's a little far fetched. A prong collar is a training tool and is used to give a correction, not unlike other tools.

    As others have mentioned I'm not generally a fan of the GL but the fact that he has been through two training classes with no success it is the lesser of two evils.

    I worked in a lawyer's office. It isn't far fetched at all.
  • srslybritt
    srslybritt Posts: 1,618 Member
    My dogs have all had Gentle Leaders. They're fairly inexpensive (I think les than $20) and you can find them pretty much anywhere. Way more humane and they generally respond well to it. My golden retriever even stopped needing hers after a while. :)

    ETA: Somehow, I managed to miss the GL talk above. Whoops. Still an advocate regardless.
  • Bekahmardis
    Bekahmardis Posts: 602 Member
    My boxer is leash aggressive from being attacked at a dog show by a small white fluffy thing when he was a pup. I had to stop showing him and it has taken all of my patience and a GENTLE LEADER in order to be able to take him on walks at all. Instead of being defensive, he goes on the OFFENSIVE and lunges at anything furry. The Gentle Leader certainly helps control his lunging, but it is next to impossible to take him for walks any more.

    He's perfectly fine off-leash, however, so we have lots of play dates and go to the dog park instead. He's three now.
  • sandy_gee
    sandy_gee Posts: 372 Member
    I have an Australian Shepherd who is the exact same mentality wise. Give your dog a 'job'. I picked up a dog backpack from a specialty pet store, which is basically like saddlebags that strap on as a harness. I put my water bottles in it for my runs and it gives him something to focus on. It's worked great for him, I would never use a prong collar or any other such on any herding breed.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    One concern to keep in mind with a pronged collar is if your dog ever bites someone or gets into a fight, in a civil suit the person sueing you can bring up the use of a pronged collar to show your lack of control over your dog which = negligence.

    I have never seen or heard that before. That's a little far fetched. A prong collar is a training tool and is used to give a correction, not unlike other tools.

    As others have mentioned I'm not generally a fan of the GL but the fact that he has been through two training classes with no success it is the lesser of two evils.

    I worked in a lawyer's office. It isn't far fetched at all.


    I would be interested in reading the case.

    ETA - are we talking raising the argument? Or actual case law?
    I can see the argument being raised but would think a good argument from someone familiar with the training methods would easily counter it.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    I have an Australian Shepherd who is the exact same mentality wise. Give your dog a 'job'. I picked up a dog backpack from a specialty pet store, which is basically like saddlebags that strap on as a harness. I put my water bottles in it for my runs and it gives him something to focus on. It's worked great for him, I would never use a prong collar or any other such on any herding breed.

    This could work as he seems to be ruled entirely by his working instincts.
  • jonnyman41
    jonnyman41 Posts: 1,032 Member
    I run with my lab sometimes. On normal walks he is a puller so I use a special harness that puts the main weight on his front however this limits him rather than stops him from pulling. If we are somewhere he can go off lead all is fine as he has good recall unless there is water near by and then he ignores me until he gets his first dip!! For running usually he is ok. i still use the harness and have it clipped to my belt so I am hands free and no stress on one side or the other. he does zig zag a lot for the first tne mins, usually until he does his business and then he settles down and runs fine. I would recommend energetic play and toileting before you set off and then using some sort of running harness once you go. Back packs on dogs are also supposed to be a good way of calming a dog down but I have not tried it myself..

    http://www.snowpawstore.com/canicross/canicross-harness.html
  • Joreanasaurous
    Joreanasaurous Posts: 1,384 Member
    Try a prong collar. Do your research first though so you are aware of exactly how to use it. It has done wonders for my GSD
    http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

    One concern to keep in mind with a pronged collar is if your dog ever bites someone or gets into a fight, in a civil suit the person sueing you can bring up the use of a pronged collar to show your lack of control over your dog which = negligence.

    I have never seen or heard that before. That's a little far fetched. A prong collar is a training tool and is used to give a correction, not unlike other tools.

    As others have mentioned I'm not generally a fan of the GL but the fact that he has been through two training classes with no success it is the lesser of two evils.

    I worked in a lawyer's office. It isn't far fetched at all.


    I would be interested in reading the case.

    ETA - are we talking raising the argument? Or actual case law?
    I can see the argument being raised but would think a good argument from someone familiar with the training methods would easily counter it.

    Argument. It works. The animal shelter in my area says the same thing. They have free training classes for adopted dogs and the trainers refuse to work pronged collars for that exact reason.
  • jcoco
    jcoco Posts: 138 Member
    After my dog tripped me and broke 3 bones in my hand, I purchased a haltie (like a gentle leader) & a short leash. She cannot run out in front of me and the haltie controls her head. She is now controlled & by my side. Foot note, it takes the dog a few walks to get use to the haltie. I would walk with it first, then start running. Good Luck I hope you find something that works.
  • footiechick82
    footiechick82 Posts: 1,203 Member
    Don't use a prong collar... DON'T!

    have you tried a harness? If you can find a 'non pull' harness try that... or a gentle leader he/she will HATE it but it will help.
  • SyntonicGarden
    SyntonicGarden Posts: 944 Member
    Let me tell you the two things that helped with my BC mix:

    A gentle leader for walking

    and a specialized harness for running. It attaches at the dog's chest. If he runs off, it torques him a funny direction.

    I was just going to suggest the chest harness. We also sometimes use that with a leash that has two loops. The smaller loop allows me to choke up on the leash (like choking a bat in baseball, not choking the dog!) to better keep her at my side. I'm not sure if that's a good fit for everyone's dog, but it certainly helps, since my pooch will cut across me when I run and cut me off just to smell something. It also affords me better control if we run into another dog out of nowhere and I have to pull her back or if she sees something she'd like to chase.

    They make running belts that allow you to attach the leash to a belt that you wear. I don't use one of these but I've heard great things from people who do use them.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    We've purchased numerous harnesses. I don't understand how these things could possibly help because they don't hold adjustment. We've tried a number of the top brands, as well as cheap brands and even ones you have to special order. They have to be snug and hold adjustment to work, and about 2-3 minutes in, they're loose again.
  • Blacklance36
    Blacklance36 Posts: 755 Member
    Try switching directions every time he starts to pull. This lets him know that he has to follow.

    Also, go out for training and not a run. Start to run and if he pulls stop running and don't start again until the leash is slack. What you are doing is giving him a signal that pulling on the leash means you are stopping and a slack leash means he gets to go forward.

    I agree with the suggestions of a gentle lead or a chest lead but not the prong collar.
  • MayMaydoesntrun
    MayMaydoesntrun Posts: 805 Member
    bump
  • 1princesswarrior
    1princesswarrior Posts: 1,242 Member
    Okay, I've trained dogs for 25 years. A Gentle Leader is a terrific tool, but it is only a tool, AND your dog will need to be trained on wearing it before you go out running! It's dogs that are not trained to wear them that jerk ahead and do damage to their necks. I always recommend the Easy Walk Harness made by Premier. It's a harness that the leash hooks in front of the chest and it disengage all the pulling muscles that regular harness engage. And it's also less effective than the Gentle Leader but I like it more. Do not use any kind of pain implementing devices such as prong collars or choke collars on a high drive tracking/hunting dog, that will lead to frustration in the dog and the behavior will get worse, not better. Cesar Milan is a joke, go back and see all the episodes on YouTube where he was bitten but that was cut out of the show and see all the dogs that he "helped" that ended up being euthanized. Victoria Stillwell or Patricia McConnell are amazing trainers. I highly recommend the book "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell. It's an easy read and will give you a whole new perspective on your dog's behavior.

    As far as motivation. Skip dinner for you pup, take him/her in the backyard where it's not as exciting and start your leash training with the tastiest treat you can find (Lee's chicken livers are a favorite, warm), the treats become dinner. I do encourage clicker training if you can find a trainer in your area who can help you learn how to do it. Or you can PM me and I will explain it. When your dog is perfect in the backyard, move to your driveway and start over, when your dog is perfect there, start down the sidewalk in front of your house, when your dog is perfect there, etc. Do you see where I'm going with this? This is a long and tedious process for a low drive dog, not to mention a high drive dog. Don't plan on running with your dog for 8-12 months if you do this training 5-10 min/day.

    Now, find someone who will work with you on training your dog to track! Give your dog an outlet. It should not be hard to train this because that's all your dog wants to do.

    I run with a super high drive Belgian Terverun and when she see ducks or any bird herding is all she can think about. I've taught her that when we are done running I will let her herd the ducks at the park we run at on a long line. Now that she knows that her reward is herding she is an angel when we run after her initial burst of energy.
  • kaned_ferret
    kaned_ferret Posts: 618 Member
    As for motivation, does food motivate him when in a non distracting environment? This is where you begin the training process, you don't take it "out on the road" as it were until the desired behaviour is proofed and gradually expanded until the dog can generalise the behaviour in new environments. Using premacks principle you could feasibly use the click to mark the correct behaviour and then the reward is being allowed to go chase / hunt, but I would strongly advise putting in the foundation work on training slowly to start with. Don't start out running, it's too much of an ask so you're setting yourselves up for failure. As for harnesses, it surprises me that not one fits correctly and that yu say they all work loose - but again if the dog is tanking I wouldn't be surprised.. Use a front attachment as shown in the first video I posted by Bina Lunzer, it gives a bit more power steering when teaching loose lead work.
  • kaned_ferret
    kaned_ferret Posts: 618 Member

    I run with a super high drive Belgian Terverun and when she see ducks or any bird herding is all she can think about. I've taught her that when we are done running I will let her herd the ducks at the park we run at on a long line. Now that she knows that her reward is herding she is an angel when we run after her initial burst of energy.

    Great example of premack as a reward for compliance!
  • born2drum
    born2drum Posts: 731 Member
    Mine used to be like that but after eventually forcing him to adhere to walking on leash he eventually loved it. Now, all i need to say is "wanna go for a walk" and he spins and spins and voila.

    What I do hate is when he crosses in front of me. *kitten*
  • ButYouGotMySoul
    ButYouGotMySoul Posts: 44 Member
    Whatever you do, a retractable leash is a terrible idea. The dog doesn't know how long the leash is, and will continue to pull when the get to the end of it. They will never know their boundaries. A regular leash will be fine. We have this harness for our dog: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751027&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

    It works like magic.

    Putting a regular harness on a dog will only increase their desire to pull, because they believe they are doing work. This harness pull them to the side so they understand they are pulling too much.
  • Zelinna
    Zelinna Posts: 207 Member
    Let me tell you the two things that helped with my BC mix:

    A gentle leader for walking

    and a specialized harness for running. It attaches at the dog's chest. If he runs off, it torques him a funny direction.

    I was just going to suggest the chest harness. We also sometimes use that with a leash that has two loops. The smaller loop allows me to choke up on the leash (like choking a bat in baseball, not choking the dog!) to better keep her at my side. I'm not sure if that's a good fit for everyone's dog, but it certainly helps, since my pooch will cut across me when I run and cut me off just to smell something. It also affords me better control if we run into another dog out of nowhere and I have to pull her back or if she sees something she'd like to chase.

    I found the chest harness worked best for stopping my dog's pulling because it turns her around. The downside of this is that it will rub my dogs fur off her chest if she is doing more than walking, so we don't use it for running.
  • GotMeSomeGoals
    GotMeSomeGoals Posts: 8
    You cannot 'teach' a dog to go against it's DNA. If his DNA has him tracking, he will track until this need is fullfilled.
    I suggest fullfilling this need by training his tracking with treasure hunts. Once he has learned what his tracking is for, then you can show him that tracking is not required in all situations. Like you did with him in the house. It will make for a happier/healthier dog and owner ;)
    It is not an easy thing to do and does require much time and commitement. I hope you the best of luck. It is a great feeling to share your runs with a buddy. ;)
  • CaliforniaBarbie
    CaliforniaBarbie Posts: 346 Member
    there are plenty of collars you can try, choke, prong, half choke, gentle leader, harness and so on.
    although i have found a few things with these, with a choke, half choke and prong, it has the potential to do significant damage to your dogs throat as they are not as sturdy as a humans. if you dog doesnt care (like my brothers and mine) they will pull with such force that it will choke them and they will NOT stop and it can do irreversible damage.
    my sister had great luck with the gentle leader, it goes around the nose and around the back of the head and then hooks to the collar, you hook the leash to the gentle leader then hold the leash at the length you want and when they try to get ahead of you it pulls their head back and they dont like it. during my dogs walks with this he hated it so much he just tried to rub his face on the ground to get it off.
    if your dog is stronger then you harnesses are the worst option it gives them full use of their body strength unlike a collar on the neck. they are able to pull you with all their muscles and no consequences.

    for my brothers dog he hooks the leash to the collar then wraps the extra around the back of his stomach near his balls, so when he tries to pull it tightens around his balls and he stops, i dont recall what the actual leash is that you can buy that does the same thing, i saw one yesterday.

    also i dont know how much of a Houdini your dog is but mine gets out of any harness you put him in. they can be extremely tight on him one second and the next he is out and running free idk how he does it
    my alpha is the only one that used to be good on a leash but always better off free running next to me, thats their favorite.

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