My Company HSA - Trimming The FAT(tys)
Replies
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You've failed to state the "actual" terms of this new stuff. I'd be willing to bet they're not as bad as you're saying.
And it's not discrimination. It's a known fact that obese people cost everyone on a whole more in insurance, so why not have people that are out of shape pay more?
Because basing obesity on BMI is a fundamentally flawed method. If they're going to play this game, they should at least use data other than BMI, like a bodyfat caliper reading or something.
Most insurance companies recognize doctor analysis, and you can have a muscle/fat ratio done, and have your body fat % calculated to argue (and most likely get, if all is right in the reports) the lower rates, without having a lower BMI.
Yep.
While I look forward to a time when I can complain about how inaccurate BMI really is - the reality of any situation like this is that at most you'll have to go see a doctor and get a body fat analysis done.
Not a huge deal.
No company or insurance company is so goofy as to look at your six-pack abs and a report showing your 10% body fat and still ding you for being obese.
SMH0 -
It's a good thing that MFP does not require some that have replied to this post an IQ test or a personality test. Some of you would still be writing on Big Chief tablets with big purple crayons.
I am 40 years old. My BMI is a 37. I started my journey at a 48 a bit over a year ago. So I went from morbidly obese to just obese. (YAY!) I do not have high blood pressure. I do not have any chronic disease that requires medication. I bike between 80 - 120 miles a week. I lift twice a week. I run and just did my first sprint triathalon.
Now with that being said I should be penalized? Why? (Not saying I am...my work pays 100% of my deductible and premium).
When you start talking about, "Well why should I pay for you, when I am the picture of health over here?" Well it sounds arrogant and ignorant all in the same post (which is probably the norm for some of you). Unless you work with the OP - you're not paying for her. The people she works with would be paying for her which is why so many employers are working to build incentives into health care. The topic post is just a bad incentive (and no where I would work). But there are employers that are cracking down on many different things trying to lower costs.
And I won't even waste my time getting any further into things like how inaccurate BMI truly is. There are so many other factors.
All I know is my doctor saw me last for a hamstring pull and he said I was healthy. Not healthier, not getting healthy, he said I was HEALTHY. Now obviously - according to some of your posts - my doctor should be removed from being a doctor because he did not say, "Yes but your BMI needs to be (insert arbitrary bs number here)." I know a ton of "skinny" people who are not healthy but have a great BMI.
Anyway...I have wasted many people's time with the post reading it. Almost as much as I wasted in writing it. But in summary...I am with the OP...it isn't fair and it sucks.0 -
No - I paid this much because my daughter has health issues and required surgery this past year, etc.
And as a working, single mother who spent 25% of her limited income on medical expenses this year, I find very little to laugh about. But hey - good on you.
What sounds cheaper?
1. Making unhealthy people pay more to cover themselves?
This idea is why the most common reason for bankruptcy is medical debt. God forbid anyone ever become unhealthy. I just pray that we all never have to experience such a catastrophic injury and disease that we can no longer pay for the medical bills and are disqualified or have to pay astronomical premiums for insurance.
And despite the thinking that "they should pay more" you actually end up paying more. Look up the cost of any procedure in the states vs. the world tell me what you find?
If you keep yourself in shape, you pay less. If not, you pay more. Both still have you keeping health care.
So, yea. Your point hasn't been made.
I'm going to hazard a guess that she isn't just speaking of obesity here. The problem with starting to penalize people for arbitrary things is that they are just that...arbitrary. Today it's your waist size or BMI, tomorrow it's the kind of vehicle you drive.
This is exactly like someone saying just because gay people can get married, next people will want to marry goats.
There's that chance with everything. It's a matter of common sense. Obesity has been proven to drive up insurance premiums for EVERYONE.
Do you have Rush Limbaugh as your screen saver? Tell me you do!
Actually, I dislike Limbaugh immensely. I just have formed my own views over the years, and realize that paying extra so others don't have to pay as much isn't dumb.
Funny how that works.
Was that directly related to being overweight and paying more of a premium? Or just insufficient healthcare provided? There are typically a lot of different options.
You started this thread about overweight people being discriminated against. So, that's what I'm talking about.
In the year coming, if this trend follows with her and they were to elect to take away the contribution to my HSA (which I personally am not in danger of) it would hit even harder! I've lost 55lbs this year. If this was me one year ago, I'd be effed. ...despite me living a reasonably healthy lifestyle. ie: Right now, I could be drinking like fish with 4 DUI's and still be OK to get coverage. (I'm not but you get my point) I could have 7 different disabilities that cost a fortune. Who's making these rules?? The system is a failure.0 -
It's a good thing that MFP does not require some that have replied to this post an IQ test or a personality test. Some of you would still be writing on Big Chief tablets with big purple crayons.
I am 40 years old. My BMI is a 37. I started my journey at a 48 a bit over a year ago. So I went from morbidly obese to just obese. (YAY!) I do not have high blood pressure. I do not have any chronic disease that requires medication. I bike between 80 - 120 miles a week. I lift twice a week. I run and just did my first sprint triathalon.
Now with that being said I should be penalized? Why? (Not saying I am...my work pays 100% of my deductible and premium).
When you start talking about, "Well why should I pay for you, when I am the picture of health over here?" Well it sounds arrogant and ignorant all in the same post (which is probably the norm for some of you). Unless you work with the OP - you're not paying for her. The people she works with would be paying for her which is why so many employers are working to build incentives into health care. The topic post is just a bad incentive (and no where I would work). But there are employers that are cracking down on many different things trying to lower costs.
And I won't even waste my time getting any further into things like how inaccurate BMI truly is. There are so many other factors.
All I know is my doctor saw me last for a hamstring pull and he said I was healthy. Not healthier, not getting healthy, he said I was HEALTHY. Now obviously - according to some of your posts - my doctor should be removed from being a doctor because he did not say, "Yes but your BMI needs to be (insert arbitrary bs number here)." I know a ton of "skinny" people who are not healthy but have a great BMI.
Anyway...I have wasted many people's time with the post reading it. Almost as much as I wasted in writing it. But in summary...I am with the OP...it isn't fair and it sucks.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone arguing both sides agree that BMI isn't a good indicator of obesity, and I've even said countless times that doctors can be seen to get a body fat analysis to go by the whole BMI thing.0 -
It's a good thing that MFP does not require some that have replied to this post an IQ test or a personality test. Some of you would still be writing on Big Chief tablets with big purple crayons.
I am 40 years old. My BMI is a 37. I started my journey at a 48 a bit over a year ago. So I went from morbidly obese to just obese. (YAY!) I do not have high blood pressure. I do not have any chronic disease that requires medication. I bike between 80 - 120 miles a week. I lift twice a week. I run and just did my first sprint triathalon.
Now with that being said I should be penalized? Why? (Not saying I am...my work pays 100% of my deductible and premium).
When you start talking about, "Well why should I pay for you, when I am the picture of health over here?" Well it sounds arrogant and ignorant all in the same post (which is probably the norm for some of you). Unless you work with the OP - you're not paying for her. The people she works with would be paying for her which is why so many employers are working to build incentives into health care. The topic post is just a bad incentive (and no where I would work). But there are employers that are cracking down on many different things trying to lower costs.
And I won't even waste my time getting any further into things like how inaccurate BMI truly is. There are so many other factors.
All I know is my doctor saw me last for a hamstring pull and he said I was healthy. Not healthier, not getting healthy, he said I was HEALTHY. Now obviously - according to some of your posts - my doctor should be removed from being a doctor because he did not say, "Yes but your BMI needs to be (insert arbitrary bs number here)." I know a ton of "skinny" people who are not healthy but have a great BMI.
Anyway...I have wasted many people's time with the post reading it. Almost as much as I wasted in writing it. But in summary...I am with the OP...it isn't fair and it sucks.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone arguing both sides agree that BMI isn't a good indicator of obesity, and I've even said countless times that doctors can be seen to get a body fat analysis to go by the whole BMI thing.
They can....but will they? Is it against the rules of engagement? ....and at who's expense to prove/disprove what?0 -
It's a good thing that MFP does not require some that have replied to this post an IQ test or a personality test. Some of you would still be writing on Big Chief tablets with big purple crayons.
I am 40 years old. My BMI is a 37. I started my journey at a 48 a bit over a year ago. So I went from morbidly obese to just obese. (YAY!) I do not have high blood pressure. I do not have any chronic disease that requires medication. I bike between 80 - 120 miles a week. I lift twice a week. I run and just did my first sprint triathalon.
Now with that being said I should be penalized? Why? (Not saying I am...my work pays 100% of my deductible and premium).
When you start talking about, "Well why should I pay for you, when I am the picture of health over here?" Well it sounds arrogant and ignorant all in the same post (which is probably the norm for some of you). Unless you work with the OP - you're not paying for her. The people she works with would be paying for her which is why so many employers are working to build incentives into health care. The topic post is just a bad incentive (and no where I would work). But there are employers that are cracking down on many different things trying to lower costs.
And I won't even waste my time getting any further into things like how inaccurate BMI truly is. There are so many other factors.
All I know is my doctor saw me last for a hamstring pull and he said I was healthy. Not healthier, not getting healthy, he said I was HEALTHY. Now obviously - according to some of your posts - my doctor should be removed from being a doctor because he did not say, "Yes but your BMI needs to be (insert arbitrary bs number here)." I know a ton of "skinny" people who are not healthy but have a great BMI.
Anyway...I have wasted many people's time with the post reading it. Almost as much as I wasted in writing it. But in summary...I am with the OP...it isn't fair and it sucks.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone arguing both sides agree that BMI isn't a good indicator of obesity, and I've even said countless times that doctors can be seen to get a body fat analysis to go by the whole BMI thing.
They can....but will they? Is it against the rules of engagement? ....and at who's expense to prove/disprove what?
Depends on your insurance. Sometimes they will pay for a physical evaluation. Sometimes it'll be out of your own pocket. It's typically less than 75 dollars though. And yes, in every case I've seen, they will.0 -
Oh Good!!!! Can you send me $75 from Shiny Town because I have $10 left til pay day to buy milk, eggs, and fruit for two.It's a good thing that MFP does not require some that have replied to this post an IQ test or a personality test. Some of you would still be writing on Big Chief tablets with big purple crayons.
I am 40 years old. My BMI is a 37. I started my journey at a 48 a bit over a year ago. So I went from morbidly obese to just obese. (YAY!) I do not have high blood pressure. I do not have any chronic disease that requires medication. I bike between 80 - 120 miles a week. I lift twice a week. I run and just did my first sprint triathalon.
Now with that being said I should be penalized? Why? (Not saying I am...my work pays 100% of my deductible and premium).
When you start talking about, "Well why should I pay for you, when I am the picture of health over here?" Well it sounds arrogant and ignorant all in the same post (which is probably the norm for some of you). Unless you work with the OP - you're not paying for her. The people she works with would be paying for her which is why so many employers are working to build incentives into health care. The topic post is just a bad incentive (and no where I would work). But there are employers that are cracking down on many different things trying to lower costs.
And I won't even waste my time getting any further into things like how inaccurate BMI truly is. There are so many other factors.
All I know is my doctor saw me last for a hamstring pull and he said I was healthy. Not healthier, not getting healthy, he said I was HEALTHY. Now obviously - according to some of your posts - my doctor should be removed from being a doctor because he did not say, "Yes but your BMI needs to be (insert arbitrary bs number here)." I know a ton of "skinny" people who are not healthy but have a great BMI.
Anyway...I have wasted many people's time with the post reading it. Almost as much as I wasted in writing it. But in summary...I am with the OP...it isn't fair and it sucks.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone arguing both sides agree that BMI isn't a good indicator of obesity, and I've even said countless times that doctors can be seen to get a body fat analysis to go by the whole BMI thing.
They can....but will they? Is it against the rules of engagement? ....and at who's expense to prove/disprove what?
Depends on your insurance. Sometimes they will pay for a physical evaluation. Sometimes it'll be out of your own pocket. It's typically less than 75 dollars though. And yes, in every case I've seen, they will.0 -
Oh Good!!!! Can you send me $75 from Shiny Town because I have $10 left til pay day to buy milk, eggs, and fruit for two.It's a good thing that MFP does not require some that have replied to this post an IQ test or a personality test. Some of you would still be writing on Big Chief tablets with big purple crayons.
I am 40 years old. My BMI is a 37. I started my journey at a 48 a bit over a year ago. So I went from morbidly obese to just obese. (YAY!) I do not have high blood pressure. I do not have any chronic disease that requires medication. I bike between 80 - 120 miles a week. I lift twice a week. I run and just did my first sprint triathalon.
Now with that being said I should be penalized? Why? (Not saying I am...my work pays 100% of my deductible and premium).
When you start talking about, "Well why should I pay for you, when I am the picture of health over here?" Well it sounds arrogant and ignorant all in the same post (which is probably the norm for some of you). Unless you work with the OP - you're not paying for her. The people she works with would be paying for her which is why so many employers are working to build incentives into health care. The topic post is just a bad incentive (and no where I would work). But there are employers that are cracking down on many different things trying to lower costs.
And I won't even waste my time getting any further into things like how inaccurate BMI truly is. There are so many other factors.
All I know is my doctor saw me last for a hamstring pull and he said I was healthy. Not healthier, not getting healthy, he said I was HEALTHY. Now obviously - according to some of your posts - my doctor should be removed from being a doctor because he did not say, "Yes but your BMI needs to be (insert arbitrary bs number here)." I know a ton of "skinny" people who are not healthy but have a great BMI.
Anyway...I have wasted many people's time with the post reading it. Almost as much as I wasted in writing it. But in summary...I am with the OP...it isn't fair and it sucks.
I'm pretty sure almost everyone arguing both sides agree that BMI isn't a good indicator of obesity, and I've even said countless times that doctors can be seen to get a body fat analysis to go by the whole BMI thing.
They can....but will they? Is it against the rules of engagement? ....and at who's expense to prove/disprove what?
Depends on your insurance. Sometimes they will pay for a physical evaluation. Sometimes it'll be out of your own pocket. It's typically less than 75 dollars though. And yes, in every case I've seen, they will.
Lol, shiny town eh? I guess my life is perfect, even though I haven't said that, simply because I believe it's ok for companies to charge overweight people more. Glad you were able to figure that one out, didn't want to flat out say it.0 -
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No less than you0 -
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No less than you
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What sounds cheaper?
1. Making unhealthy people pay more to cover themselves?
This idea is why the most common reason for bankruptcy is medical debt. God forbid anyone ever become unhealthy. I just pray that we all never have to experience such a catastrophic injury and disease that we can no longer pay for the medical bills and are disqualified or have to pay astronomical premiums for insurance.
And despite the thinking that "they should pay more" you actually end up paying more. Look up the cost of any procedure in the states vs. the world tell me what you find?
If you keep yourself in shape, you pay less. If not, you pay more. Both still have you keeping health care.
So, yea. Your point hasn't been made.
I'm going to hazard a guess that she isn't just speaking of obesity here. The problem with starting to penalize people for arbitrary things is that they are just that...arbitrary. Today it's your waist size or BMI, tomorrow it's the kind of vehicle you drive.
This is exactly like someone saying just because gay people can get married, next people will want to marry goats.
There's that chance with everything. It's a matter of common sense. Obesity has been proven to drive up insurance premiums for EVERYONE.
That's quite a leap you made there, but OK. Regardless, I'd like to see your data on how "obesity" has driven up insurance premiums for EVERYONE. I'm not well versed in actuarial science, but I'd imagine that there are many medical expenses out there that drive our insurance premiums up more than being fat ever will. One example...I had 2 children by c-section, combined cost was well over $50,000. Should I pay higher premiums because I'm a woman of child bearing age? Or perhaps I should only pay higher premiums until I go to the doctor to get proof that I'm on birth control. It's a slippery slope...0 -
Gosh - your post just makes too much sense. Maybe that is why no one replied. But I liked it!
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LOL - It caused a little ruckus but you're right...I wasn't really expecting a huge debate got a little one but not a huge one. It's just a flat out shame.Gosh - your post just makes too much sense. Maybe that is why no one replied. But I liked it!0 -
LOL - It caused a little ruckus but you're right...I wasn't really expecting a huge debate got a little one but not a huge one. It's just a flat out shame.Gosh - your post just makes too much sense. Maybe that is why no one replied. But I liked it!
What really irritates me is the insistence that it is any one group of people causing the massive increases to our health insurance premiums. Nevermind the fact that insurance companies are seeing unprecedented increases in their profit margins, I'm sure that has nothing to do with premiums going up by record percentages.0 -
I've learned that these forums (much like real life) are filled with people who love spout off ignorant stuff. Sad - but it is life and the world we live in. If everyone was of reasonable intelligence then who would we shake our head at, point at, and laugh at?0
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