Paleo: Do I Have to Eat All That Meat?
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Sarcasm?
There was a link provided. Quoting from the paper:
"Fruits, roots, legumes, nuts, and other non-cereals provided 65-70% of the average forager subsistence base."
The conception of Paleo being low carb and bags o' meat is pure marketing fluff.
I thought legumes were banned on paleo?0 -
Sarcasm?
There was a link provided. Quoting from the paper:
"Fruits, roots, legumes, nuts, and other non-cereals provided 65-70% of the average forager subsistence base."
The conception of Paleo being low carb and bags o' meat is pure marketing fluff.
I thought legumes were banned on paleo?
also nevermind the fact that those people were significantly smaller than us and could subsist on less food than us. getting 50% of your calories from fruits and veggies in 2013 is incredibly difficult and impractical.0 -
It's all good man, we all make mistakes. :flowerforyou:So on Sunday I'm officially starting the Paleo diet for a month (I'd start it now but I have a lot of dairy in the fridge to use up, and as a student I can't really afford to waste it). I'm very interested in this "diet" because the natural way of eating greatly interests me. However, the diet consists mainly of lean meats & proteins, veggies, and good fats. But they want meat at *every* meal! I'm not a big meat eater, never have been. I really enjoy it, and I'll eat a steak, a chicken or a burger, but I rarely have meat outside dinner. It's also expensive. How to I get around this? I'm all for eating meat, but every day, every meal? Any ideas?
*Edit for grammar.
That's not the paleo diet, the paleo diet has the majority of intake in carbs
nope.
Good thing you read through before replying
paleo diets are relatively low carb and the majority of your calories come from fats
Try again
Eaton et al. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton Paleo Nutri Review EJCN.pdf
hahaha classic redirect to a completely different topic.
How is it a different topic, is that not directly pertaining to the paleolithic diet? Also since you're so knowledgeable ont he subject, are you familiar with how Cordain reconstructed the Paleo diet for his book?
the study is pertaining to differing research into the diets of paleolithic man, and it's far from conclusive. However what the OP is referring to is the general "paleo diet" fad as it is described in numerous books/websites/etc etc etc. THAT diet centers around high fat intake and moderate to low carb intake.
Thus, the redirect to draw attention to yourself. Mission accomplished!
As for Cordain: 'The U.S. News ranking assumed a low-carb version of the paleo diet, specifically containing only 23% carbohydrates.[194] Higher carbohydrate versions of the paleo diet, which allow for significant consumption of root vegetables,[195] were not a part of this ranking.[193] Dr. Loren Cordain, a proponent of a low-carbohydrate Paleolithic diet, responded to the U.S. News ranking, stating that their "conclusions are erroneous and misleading" and pointing out that "five studies, four since 2007, have experimentally tested contemporary versions of ancestral human diets and have found them to be superior to Mediterranean diets, diabetic diets and typical western diets in regard to weight loss, cardiovascular disease risk factors and risk factors for type 2 diabetes."[196][197]'
You can argue all you want about whether cavemen ACTUALLY ate this way or not, and there are valid points on both sides. But as I said before, regarding the OP and her question, your original answer was not helpful nor correct in context.
But OP also said they want to eat Paleo as it is "natural". If the diets as marketed nowadays are not the actual caveman diet, then how is it any more "natural" than a 100% Twinkie diet?0 -
From the paper...
"The typical carbohydrate intake of ancestral humans was similar in magnitude, 45-50% of daily energy, to that in current afluent nations..."
the problem is that most people who "go paleo" are following the dietary advice of a few gurus, rather than finding out what palaeolithic people actually ate; in fact earlier today I read a comment on this site from a paleo dieter saying that it's not supposed to imitate actual palaeolithic diets, and that he was sick to death of people commenting on how the paleo diet isn't the same as what "cavemen" actually ate. What it seems to me is that the "paleo diet" is eating what some guy who wrote a book but had never actually studied any palaeoanthropology thought that palaeolithic people ate without actually doing any research to find out what they did eat (which isn't just one diet, as the palaeolithic era spanned well over 2 million years and several different species of human) and with a bit of low carb thrown in, just because low carb is trendy.
which is why I'm inclined to say they should just drop the term "paleo" altogether and just call it the "never eat dairy, legumes or grains" diet.0 -
It's all good man, we all make mistakes. :flowerforyou:So on Sunday I'm officially starting the Paleo diet for a month (I'd start it now but I have a lot of dairy in the fridge to use up, and as a student I can't really afford to waste it). I'm very interested in this "diet" because the natural way of eating greatly interests me. However, the diet consists mainly of lean meats & proteins, veggies, and good fats. But they want meat at *every* meal! I'm not a big meat eater, never have been. I really enjoy it, and I'll eat a steak, a chicken or a burger, but I rarely have meat outside dinner. It's also expensive. How to I get around this? I'm all for eating meat, but every day, every meal? Any ideas?
*Edit for grammar.
That's not the paleo diet, the paleo diet has the majority of intake in carbs
nope.
Good thing you read through before replying
paleo diets are relatively low carb and the majority of your calories come from fats
Try again
Eaton et al. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton Paleo Nutri Review EJCN.pdf
hahaha classic redirect to a completely different topic.
How is it a different topic, is that not directly pertaining to the paleolithic diet? Also since you're so knowledgeable ont he subject, are you familiar with how Cordain reconstructed the Paleo diet for his book?
the study is pertaining to differing research into the diets of paleolithic man, and it's far from conclusive. However what the OP is referring to is the general "paleo diet" fad as it is described in numerous books/websites/etc etc etc. THAT diet centers around high fat intake and moderate to low carb intake.
Thus, the redirect to draw attention to yourself. Mission accomplished!
As for Cordain: 'The U.S. News ranking assumed a low-carb version of the paleo diet, specifically containing only 23% carbohydrates.[194] Higher carbohydrate versions of the paleo diet, which allow for significant consumption of root vegetables,[195] were not a part of this ranking.[193] Dr. Loren Cordain, a proponent of a low-carbohydrate Paleolithic diet, responded to the U.S. News ranking, stating that their "conclusions are erroneous and misleading" and pointing out that "five studies, four since 2007, have experimentally tested contemporary versions of ancestral human diets and have found them to be superior to Mediterranean diets, diabetic diets and typical western diets in regard to weight loss, cardiovascular disease risk factors and risk factors for type 2 diabetes."[196][197]'
You can argue all you want about whether cavemen ACTUALLY ate this way or not, and there are valid points on both sides. But as I said before, regarding the OP and her question, your original answer was not helpful nor correct in context.
Classic redirect, I asked if you know his methodology for recreating the Paleo diet not something from wikipedia or where ever you pulled that from.0 -
also nevermind the fact that those people were significantly smaller than us and could subsist on less food than us. getting 50% of your calories from fruits and veggies in 2013 is incredibly difficult and impractical.
That's incorrect. They were of similar stature to us and in fact taller/heavier than many modern ethnic groups with greater lean body mass.
And they consumed *more* calories than we consume (at least until recently in highly developed countries).0 -
But OP also said they want to eat Paleo as it is "natural". If the diets as marketed nowadays are not the actual caveman diet, then how is it any more "natural" than a 100% Twinkie diet?
that's a fair point, and if the OP is truly concerned with eating the most "natural" way, then the onus is on her to do the research by looking at as many sources with as many varying viewpoints as possible, including the one listed by acg, and make her own decision, because following the trendy paleo or primal guides won't guarantee that.0 -
What it seems to me is that the "paleo diet" is eating what some guy who wrote a book but had never actually studied any palaeoanthropology...
Completely agree. Telling people what they want to hear has always been the path to self-help Best Sellerdom - IMO most of the "paleo" gurus are hypesters using psuedo-science to give folks a justification to over-eat fatty foods.0 -
also nevermind the fact that those people were significantly smaller than us and could subsist on less food than us. getting 50% of your calories from fruits and veggies in 2013 is incredibly difficult and impractical.
That's incorrect. They were of similar stature to us and in fact taller/heavier than many modern ethnic groups with greater lean body mass.
And they consumed *more* calories than we consume (at least until recently in highly developed countries).
source?0 -
This "diet" fails your litmus test. It should have taken all of 2 seconds to realize that, and move on to the next candidate in your list.0
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This "diet" fails your litmus test. It should have taken all of 2 seconds to realize that, and move on to the next candidate in your list.
I mean honestly I agree, if you dont WANT to eat all that meat... then don't... there's no reason you have to subscribe to any ONE fad diet specifically. Eat foods you like and stay under your TDEE. I like that diet. I should also change my ticker.
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Why did you respond to my post without reading it thoroughly? I clearly stated I *did* enjoy eating meat, but I wanted to limit my consumption to be more cost-effective. I'd like to /try/ going paleo, to experiment with what kind of eating styles suit me best. Paleo is a natural, sugarless, healthy diet that really appeals to me.
what I meant was "don't like to eat much meat" - apologies for not expressing myself clearly, but what i said in the rest of the post still stands.
can you eat a diet of all natural foods while avoiding sugar, but include dairy, legumes and grains? Then you don't have to eat so much meat, it's cheaper, but you'll still be avoiding refined sugar and eating natural foods.
Thank you why didn't I think of that I wanted to do Paleo I only eat chicken and not everyday I don't do eggs or dairy and I am not giving up my beans I love black beans and paleo doesn't do beans but thanks to you I can perk that paleo diet to my benefit thanks0 -
Spear hunting and carrion is a pretty inexpensive way to get meat and very paleo. Just don't pick up road kill, there were no cars then.0
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No, you don't just need "lean" proteins. Good fats actually come from animals, especially if they are grass fed or wild. We need saturated and omega 3 fats.
Anyway, I've been Primal, and recently Paleo, for well over a year and I rarely have over 8 ounces per day of meat. I'm ketogenic so as long as I eat lots of fat, I have no need to eat huge volumes of food. I save money eating less but better food. True story.
Oh, and next time, you should post in the Primal/Paleo support group. Many MFP members have a huge hate-on for all things Paleo so things get very silly and those of us who actually have first-hand experience with this lifestyle get extremely ridiculed.
Edit: If you see this lifestyle as a "diet" and are not on board with the premise in the first place, I don't think it's the "diet" for you.0 -
Spear hunting and carrion is a pretty inexpensive way to get meat and very paleo. Just don't pick up road kill, there were no cars then.
Homo habilis and Homo erectus scavenged lion kill... it's not that different to road kill really, IMO
you can make a basic flint stone tool to smash up the bones to remove the marrow0 -
Wow. This is exactly why I usually stay off the boards. So much banter....0
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It's all good man, we all make mistakes. :flowerforyou:So on Sunday I'm officially starting the Paleo diet for a month (I'd start it now but I have a lot of dairy in the fridge to use up, and as a student I can't really afford to waste it). I'm very interested in this "diet" because the natural way of eating greatly interests me. However, the diet consists mainly of lean meats & proteins, veggies, and good fats. But they want meat at *every* meal! I'm not a big meat eater, never have been. I really enjoy it, and I'll eat a steak, a chicken or a burger, but I rarely have meat outside dinner. It's also expensive. How to I get around this? I'm all for eating meat, but every day, every meal? Any ideas?
*Edit for grammar.
That's not the paleo diet, the paleo diet has the majority of intake in carbs
nope.
Good thing you read through before replying
paleo diets are relatively low carb and the majority of your calories come from fats
Try again
Eaton et al. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton Paleo Nutri Review EJCN.pdf
hahaha classic redirect to a completely different topic.
How is it a different topic, is that not directly pertaining to the paleolithic diet? Also since you're so knowledgeable ont he subject, are you familiar with how Cordain reconstructed the Paleo diet for his book?
Oh here we go again... the guy who considers only the research he agrees with as valid in any argument. If I mention anything about the Inuit or other Aboriginal groups that had low to very low carb intake, that doesn't "count"... so I assume he considers these aboriginal groups irrelevant because they are not as human as everyone else. And the fact that I thrive on a ketogenic Paleo lifestyle must also make me a "special snowflake", or a liar. All this from someone who has never dealt with metabolic disorders including obesity, diabetes, eating disorders, depression, et al.0 -
What people were actually eating during the paleo period (*which spanned what 2 million years?) probably varied wildly by location, season, climate (hello glacial!). I don't think there is one diet for all that time.
It's all good man, we all make mistakes. :flowerforyou:So on Sunday I'm officially starting the Paleo diet for a month (I'd start it now but I have a lot of dairy in the fridge to use up, and as a student I can't really afford to waste it). I'm very interested in this "diet" because the natural way of eating greatly interests me. However, the diet consists mainly of lean meats & proteins, veggies, and good fats. But they want meat at *every* meal! I'm not a big meat eater, never have been. I really enjoy it, and I'll eat a steak, a chicken or a burger, but I rarely have meat outside dinner. It's also expensive. How to I get around this? I'm all for eating meat, but every day, every meal? Any ideas?
*Edit for grammar.
That's not the paleo diet, the paleo diet has the majority of intake in carbs
nope.
Good thing you read through before replying
paleo diets are relatively low carb and the majority of your calories come from fats
Try again
Eaton et al. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton Paleo Nutri Review EJCN.pdf
Interesting article, though. When they looked at foragers I think they were looking at modern day peoples, or maybe a mix of things including that data point.0 -
No, you don't just need "lean" proteins. Good fats actually come from animals, especially if they are grass fed or wild. We need saturated and omega 3 fats.
Anyway, I've been Primal, and recently Paleo, for well over a year and I rarely have over 8 ounces per day of meat. I'm ketogenic so as long as I eat lots of fat, I have no need to eat huge volumes of food. I save money eating less but better food. True story.
Oh, and next time, you should post in the Primal/Paleo support group. Many MFP members have a huge hate-on for all things Paleo so things get very silly and those of us who actually have first-hand experience with this lifestyle get extremely ridiculed.
Edit: If you see this lifestyle as a "diet" and are not on board with the premise in the first place, I don't think it's the "diet" for you.
I don't think you're on board with the premise either
From Cordain,
"The Paleo Diet is based upon everyday, modern foods that mimic the food groups of our pre-agricultural, hunter-gatherer ancestors."
So high carb, moderate protein, moderate fat and low sat fat intake0 -
also nevermind the fact that those people were significantly smaller than us and could subsist on less food than us. getting 50% of your calories from fruits and veggies in 2013 is incredibly difficult and impractical.
That's incorrect. They were of similar stature to us and in fact taller/heavier than many modern ethnic groups with greater lean body mass.
And they consumed *more* calories than we consume (at least until recently in highly developed countries).
source?
palaeoanthropology 101...
anyway, you want evidence:
the most complete skeleton of a Homo erectus (sometimes classified as Homo ergaster), is the Narikotome boy, and he died at an equivalent developmental age to a Homo sapiens 14 year old, although is chronological age was about 8 (they grew up faster than Homo sapiens) - anyway his skeleton suggests he was already very tall, and extrapolates to an adult height of over 6'. I can't remember the date for this particular fossil off the top of my head but Homo ergaster lived from 1.8 million years ago to around 1.3 million years ago.
Homo habilis (the very first humans to evolve) were about 5' in height (adult male height) but they very quickly evolved into Homo erectus.
Homo heidelbergensis, the descendants of Homo erectus who lived in Europe and Africa, archaeological remains suggest that they were also around 6' tall, some remains suggest they were even taller than this.
Homo neanderthalensis was only 5'6" (average male height) but very heavily built - they are the main reason why people think only Homo sapiens evolved to be tall, because they used to think neanderthals were the "missing link" - but they in fact appeared very late in human evolution... the neanderthals evolved from Homo heidelbergensis, but evolved to be shorter to withstand the ice age climate. Both neanderthals and heidelbergensis had large frames and were heavily built. Having proportionally shorter limbs and larger torsos and a greater lean body mass conserves heat as you have a lower surface area to volume ratio (aka allen's rule... shorter limbs is an adaptation to the cold). Also neanderthals appear to have evolved for physical strength, and shorter limbs gives you a mechanical advantage for lifting and carrying. In other words, they evolved to be shorter because shorter had distinct evolutionary advantages for their climate and lifestyle. they are also one of the most "highly evolved" species of human (the other being Homo sapiens) and are our "cousins" not our ancestors (but most modern people have neanderthal genes due to interbreeding between neanderthals and upper palaeolithic homo sapiens)
Homo sapiens - adult male average height of just under 6' tall, but with a more slender frame than the above species, probably because they invented efficient projectile weapons (throwing spears, bows and arrows) so relied on brute strength less and skill and accuracy more.
So you can see, that ancient humans were just as tall as Homo sapiens (other than neanderthals being shorter to withstand the cold) and they were more heavily built than Homo sapiens. There is ample archaeological evidence for this.0
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