Trying to do a "clean" bulk... so much food.... help!
LaurenAOK
Posts: 2,475 Member
Okay so on Sept 1, I decided to start my first ever bulk/cut cycle. Now I've never been a "clean eater" but through my research on bulking I did find that in order to maximize muscle gain and minimize fat gain it's best to eat mostly healthy, nutrient-dense foods - which makes sense.
I'm on 2600 calories currently and reallllly struggling to get there each day. I can't imagine eating this much for weeks on end! Of course, it would be easy if I just ate fast food all day every day, but I'm afraid that wouldn't give me the results I want (and it's also not in my budget). My first night doing this I was way under on calories until I went to a party where there was cheese fondue and lots of tequila. That got me the necessary calories (I actually went over that day) but from what I've read alcohol really isn't great for muscles, so I'm not sure if those calories even "count" towards my bulking goal. Yesterday, I was again way under at the end of the day and forced myself to eat McDonalds on my way home at 2am even though I wasn't the slightest bit hungry... and I still ended up under my goal.
Today I've been eating all day, I had a filling lunch of whole wheat pasta with ground beef, and a couple hours later on my break at school I went and got a giant slice of NY pizza even though I wasn't hungry at all (and felt quite unpleasant afterwards). I just now managed to get hungry enough to eat dinner and even though I had a huge amount of food, it only came out to 700 calories since it was healthy stuff. I still have 600 calories remaining - I plan to have a protein shake and a good amount of ice cream, but I'm betting I'll still come in under my goal, and feeling quite overfull sick.
I know this probably sounds no different than the "wahhhh I can't eat 1200 calories" threads, and I'm sure many of the suggestions I'll get are the same - eat more fatty snacks, etc. But I've been cooking with olive oil, snacking on almonds, and eating unhealthy crap at least once a day, and I'm still not hitting my goal. Do you think it's true that a "clean" bulk is better, or should I just say "screw it" and eat unhealthy junk all day every day? I am a fan of IIFYM, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the "fitting my macros" part - if I eat too much junk, I just end up way over on carbs and under on everything else. :blushing: Part of the problem too is like I said, it's really not in my budget to eat out for two or three meals a day... I just used 1/3 of my monthly food budget on groceries, so I really need to focus on eating those instead of buying food every day. But I honestly don't know how I can force down even more healthy food on a daily basis.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated, especially from people who have experience with bulking and can attest to whether or not a "clean" bulk is better. Sorry for being such a newb about this
Friend requests from people who eat as many calories or more than me would also be cool so I can look at your diaries.
I'm on 2600 calories currently and reallllly struggling to get there each day. I can't imagine eating this much for weeks on end! Of course, it would be easy if I just ate fast food all day every day, but I'm afraid that wouldn't give me the results I want (and it's also not in my budget). My first night doing this I was way under on calories until I went to a party where there was cheese fondue and lots of tequila. That got me the necessary calories (I actually went over that day) but from what I've read alcohol really isn't great for muscles, so I'm not sure if those calories even "count" towards my bulking goal. Yesterday, I was again way under at the end of the day and forced myself to eat McDonalds on my way home at 2am even though I wasn't the slightest bit hungry... and I still ended up under my goal.
Today I've been eating all day, I had a filling lunch of whole wheat pasta with ground beef, and a couple hours later on my break at school I went and got a giant slice of NY pizza even though I wasn't hungry at all (and felt quite unpleasant afterwards). I just now managed to get hungry enough to eat dinner and even though I had a huge amount of food, it only came out to 700 calories since it was healthy stuff. I still have 600 calories remaining - I plan to have a protein shake and a good amount of ice cream, but I'm betting I'll still come in under my goal, and feeling quite overfull sick.
I know this probably sounds no different than the "wahhhh I can't eat 1200 calories" threads, and I'm sure many of the suggestions I'll get are the same - eat more fatty snacks, etc. But I've been cooking with olive oil, snacking on almonds, and eating unhealthy crap at least once a day, and I'm still not hitting my goal. Do you think it's true that a "clean" bulk is better, or should I just say "screw it" and eat unhealthy junk all day every day? I am a fan of IIFYM, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the "fitting my macros" part - if I eat too much junk, I just end up way over on carbs and under on everything else. :blushing: Part of the problem too is like I said, it's really not in my budget to eat out for two or three meals a day... I just used 1/3 of my monthly food budget on groceries, so I really need to focus on eating those instead of buying food every day. But I honestly don't know how I can force down even more healthy food on a daily basis.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated, especially from people who have experience with bulking and can attest to whether or not a "clean" bulk is better. Sorry for being such a newb about this
Friend requests from people who eat as many calories or more than me would also be cool so I can look at your diaries. 0
Replies
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Sufficient protein+surplus is all you need.
Where the calories come from doesn't matter.
4 tablespoons of peanut butter=almost 400 calories
And 16 grams of protein.
That's what id eat...it's deeeeeeelicious.0 -
What the other guy said.
I am eating 2450 right now and that's around maintenance and I'm transitioning to bulk aswell.
I have no problems reaching my calories and I wish I could eat more every day.
Eat nuts all the time. Drink whole milk. GO MAD (gallon of milk a day) if you feel like it. Eat nutty bread. Eat chocolate. I always eat 90% but I don't mind it's bitter. Maybe eat 80% instead. A sizeable bar of chocolate goes a long way and if it's high percentage of cocoa it's not bad for you at all.
Don't be afraid of good fats! They are good for you. They taste good. They are high in calories. They should be your best friend
Have a slice of pizza if you like. Go to mac donalds and eat a quarter pounder double the meat no cheese (like 600 calories right there and not too bad for you too). Some bad fats won't kill you either.
PS I think my diary is open if it's not FR me, but I have to admit I try to eat as much as I can (as in volume) so stay away from fatty foods most of the time except at night when I know how many calories I have left. Unlike you I have a hard time NOT eating my calories haha.0 -
When people say clean bulk they usually don't mean clean foods. They mean a very low caloric surplus, thus allowing the majority of the surplus to go into muscle. When you're in a surplus, your body has 2 choices to do with the extra calories, turn it into fat or turn it into muscle (basically). Your body can only make so much muscle effectively. This is opposed to a dirty bulk, in which you stuff yourself with as many calories as you can fill yourself with in hopes of putting on as much muscle and fat as possible. If you're in a 1000 calorie surplus, it doesn't matter if the foods you eat are "clean" or not, you'll be gaining quite a bit of fat along with your muscle.
That being said, aim for a 200-400 calorie surplus per day only. You should be gaining less than a pound per week on a "clean" bulk. If you're having trouble with eating 200-400 calorie a day surplus, then yes, eating things like avocados, cheese, full fat yogurt, peanut butter etc will help you get there.0 -
I eat "clean" and eat 2000+ calories a day usually (very active) ... My diary is open 0
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When people say clean bulk they usually don't mean clean foods. They mean a very low caloric surplus, thus allowing the majority of the surplus to go into muscle. When you're in a surplus, your body has 2 choices to do with the extra calories, turn it into fat or turn it into muscle (basically). Your body can only make so much muscle effectively. This is opposed to a dirty bulk, in which you stuff yourself with as many calories as you can fill yourself with in hopes of putting on as much muscle and fat as possible. If you're in a 1000 calorie surplus, it doesn't matter if the foods you eat are "clean" or not, you'll be gaining quite a bit of fat along with your muscle.
That being said, aim for a 200-400 calorie surplus per day only. You should be gaining less than a pound per week on a "clean" bulk. If you're having trouble with eating 200-400 calorie a day surplus, then yes, eating things like avocados, cheese, full fat yogurt, peanut butter etc will help you get there.
What he said ^0 -
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I did not see where you said why specifically you are trying to gain muscle (i.e. fitness show or personal goal). I have trained over the past year with a trainer and show coach in a gym that produces fitness competitors. I personally did not reach my goals or get to where I could compete, but I was around it a lot. Hearing you talk about "fast food", alcohol, dairy products, bread, etc. those were things we were not allowed to have while training for a show. Regardless of your calorie intake, in no way were we ever encouraged to consume junk. You might check this article out and see if it helps. I would try and get in a couple of more whey protein shakes. We had one first thing in the morning and before going to bed and anytime we were to have a protein. Good luck with your efforts.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/top-10-rules-successful-clean-bulking.html0 -
Sufficient protein+surplus is all you need.
Where the calories come from doesn't matter.
4 tablespoons of peanut butter=almost 400 calories
And 16 grams of protein.
That's what id eat...it's deeeeeeelicious.
listen to this guy!
a cal IS a cal no matter where it comes from.. 2600cals is easy to achieve if you start adding lots of decent fats into your diet. try adding decent pre gym meals and post gym meals and see how you go. If need be increase your meal sizes even.0 -
When people say clean bulk they usually don't mean clean foods. They mean a very low caloric surplus, thus allowing the majority of the surplus to go into muscle. When you're in a surplus, your body has 2 choices to do with the extra calories, turn it into fat or turn it into muscle (basically). Your body can only make so much muscle effectively. This is opposed to a dirty bulk, in which you stuff yourself with as many calories as you can fill yourself with in hopes of putting on as much muscle and fat as possible. If you're in a 1000 calorie surplus, it doesn't matter if the foods you eat are "clean" or not, you'll be gaining quite a bit of fat along with your muscle.
That being said, aim for a 200-400 calorie surplus per day only. You should be gaining less than a pound per week on a "clean" bulk. If you're having trouble with eating 200-400 calorie a day surplus, then yes, eating things like avocados, cheese, full fat yogurt, peanut butter etc will help you get there.
What he said ^
Thank you for this information! I read this, but I also read a lot about eating right. Maybe it's because they think the people who eat McDonalds 3 times a day will be the same people eating 1000 calories over maintenance? I'm not sure. This is another thing I'm a little iffy about too, because scoobysworkshop which I've always trusted says my maintenance is around 2300 so that's why I chose 2600 as my goal. However, I just did the IIFYM website calculator and it gave me a lower number - 2100 for my maintenance. Now I'm wondering if 2600 is too much. I might lower it a bit and find a happy medium.I did not see where you said why specifically you are trying to gain muscle (i.e. fitness show or personal goal). I have trained over the past year with a trainer and show coach in a gym that produces fitness competitors. I personally did not reach my goals or get to where I could compete, but I was around it a lot. Hearing you talk about "fast food", alcohol, dairy products, bread, etc. those were things we were not allowed to have while training for a show. Regardless of your calorie intake, in no way were we ever encouraged to consume junk. You might check this article out and see if it helps. I would try and get in a couple of more whey protein shakes. We had one first thing in the morning and before going to bed and anytime we were to have a protein. Good luck with your efforts.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/top-10-rules-successful-clean-bulking.html
I appreciate your input, and that was one of the articles I actually read while I was researching. No offense but I don't see how I could POSSIBLY reach my calorie goals without things as simple as dairy and bread. I'm not into strict diets like that. I actually did paleo for a while and enjoyed it, but I couldn't manage to get in more than 1000 calories a day that way. I personally know people who have had great success while still eating dairy, bread, alcohol and even "fast food" - my question was more about where to draw the line as far as how much of that stuff is too much, you know? I'm really glad you enjoyed your experience with the trainer, though - to each his own!
Thank you guys for the food suggestions, I somehow forgot about peanut butter which is crazy because I love that stuff haha. I still think I'm going to struggle for a while (I'm soooo full and nauseous right now and I haven't even eaten the ice cream I have planned) but I think as time goes on my stomach will get used to holding more food... hopefully?0 -
Sufficient protein+surplus is all you need.
Where the calories come from doesn't matter.
4 tablespoons of peanut butter=almost 400 calories
And 16 grams of protein.
That's what id eat...it's deeeeeeelicious.
listen to this guy!
a cal IS a cal no matter where it comes from.. 2600cals is easy to achieve if you start adding lots of decent fats into your diet. try adding decent pre gym meals and post gym meals and see how you go. If need be increase your meal sizes even.
Awesome. I'm not scared of fats, I promise - I've been getting like 100g a day! Apparently that's still not enough though
I am working really hard to get at least my bodyweight in protein grams, so I feel good about that. It's just the actual surplus I'm struggling with! 0 -
Drink whole milk. GO MAD (gallon of milk a day) if you feel like it.
Oh lord I hate milk, this sounds awful hahaha. But thank you for your post, it was very helpful!! 0 -
I just want to say this:
You will get used to eating more after a month or two. Especially if you can avoid being stuffed most of the time (by eating some foods that are nutrient dense, and breaking up your eating into approximately 6 meals).
This is coming from someone who eats 2900-3600 calories a day depending on activity level, but used to eat 2200 or so (which was below maintenance for me).0 -
I would check your progress for a few weeks to determine maintenance and aim for about 2lbs per month weight gain max. If it's more than that then cut the cals a bit.
BTW it is best to get the majority of extra cals from carbs. Good for energy! A surplus from fat is more likely to be stored in fat cells. That's nitpicking though 0 -
had a very quick look in your diary and theres some things you could change so you're getting more calories for the same amount of food -
ditch the fage 0% yoghurt in favour of full fat stuff,
add peanut butter,
swap almond milk for full fat stuff
swap chicken for beef or pork
salmon or tuna are higher calorie fish (if you eat fish)0 -
When I was anorexic I was eating 800-1200 cals a day, now on 3400-4000 a day and maintaining, if I can do it so can you0
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A clean bulk refers to eating less calories than with a dirty bulk; it has nothing to do with eating clean foods. Just make sure you hit your macros (protein shakes help) and then eat whatever you want.0
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I think I see the issue, I think the OP has made the false mental connection of "low calorie" equals "healthy." Eating whole nutrient sense foods is a wonderful thing, just try to avoid the lower calorie options when bulking. Also, lots of carbs. More carbs means more glycogen, more glycogen means better lifts, better lifts mean more muscle. Now's the time to gorge on white bread and potatoes! (Kidding, sort of.)0
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Drink your milk.
Pints after pints of it.
Every day.0 -
Drink whole milk. GO MAD (gallon of milk a day) if you feel like it.
Oh lord I hate milk, this sounds awful hahaha. But thank you for your post, it was very helpful!!
man up
No seriously, I hadn't seen this when i posted my previous message. sorry.0 -
Drink whole milk. GO MAD (gallon of milk a day) if you feel like it.
Oh lord I hate milk, this sounds awful hahaha. But thank you for your post, it was very helpful!!
If you hate milk then I've one thing to say to you - cheese! :happy:-1 -
I would check your progress for a few weeks to determine maintenance and aim for about 2lbs per month weight gain max. If it's more than that then cut the cals a bit.
BTW it is best to get the majority of extra cals from carbs. Good for energy! A surplus from fat is more likely to be stored in fat cells. That's nitpicking though
This^^^^
I would not just start eating a boat load of fats just because they are "good fats". Remember, you are going to be in a surplus so macros do matter. I would definitely hit fat minimums. If being constantly full is what you are finding hard right now you can add in some things that may not give you that feeling. Cereal, rice, bagels. Your surplus should really be coming from carbs.
How long were you in a deficit?
Did you reverse diet?
what they said
when you are dieting you can eat as much fat as you want, anyway it will not be stored in the long time, but when you bulking, limit your calories from fats (Lyle Macdonald recomends to go for 25% of calories).
so basically set up your protein as minimum, fat somwhere between minimum of 0.35g/lbs of body weight, and 25% and the rest fill with carbs. Carbs will give you energy to fuel your workouts and are less likely to be stored as fat then fat itself.0 -
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Double post...wtf MFP!?0
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Let me introduce you to 7 friends of mine:
Ben & Jerry, and Five Guys0 -
I'm on 2700 as a cut and when i moved to this number i found greek yogurt and almonds a big help also dark chocolate.0
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I feel your pain (mainly in the tummy area :laugh: ).
I'm easily hitting my protein targets (minimum 140g) and the calories will be about 1500. So I end up spooning PB into my mouth to hit the calorie target. Also, I end up eating a bit more carbs. It depends on what you mean by clean, I guess. I do use cereal bars as they can contain 150kcals -250kcals and are fairly healthy (compared to a Mars bar!) but even then they have chemicals and sugar.
If you can eat 4-5 meals a day, that will help. Snack in between on nuts, too.0 -
It seems the difference in the foods you eat out and the foods you eat at home is fat. Fat = lots of calories. Why not just add more heatlhy fats to your meals at home?0
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I would check your progress for a few weeks to determine maintenance and aim for about 2lbs per month weight gain max. If it's more than that then cut the cals a bit.
BTW it is best to get the majority of extra cals from carbs. Good for energy! A surplus from fat is more likely to be stored in fat cells. That's nitpicking though
This^^^^
I would not just start eating a boat load of fats just because they are "good fats". Remember, you are going to be in a surplus so macros do matter. I would definitely hit fat minimums. If being constantly full is what you are finding hard right now you can add in some things that may not give you that feeling. Cereal, rice, bagels. Your surplus should really be coming from carbs.
How long were you in a deficit?
Did you reverse diet?
I really think I've been eating plenty of fats - like around 100g a day and I only weigh 130-140 so that's well over .5g per lb of bodyweight. Feel free to look at my diary. I will actually try to add in some more empty carbs, I'm having cereal this morning so maybe that will help. Interesting to hear that my surplus should come from carbs, I've never heard that before. It makes sense though - I guess I really don't need to get any more protein and fats than I'm already getting, so the thing I should increase is carbs. The problem is feeling full all the time but maybe I should switch from brown rice to white and stuff so I don't get full as easily?
I was in a deficit for probably no more than 6 months total (I lost some weight initially, stopped using MFP, then decided to lose a little more weight and started up again). I was never in a severe deficit either - I usually netted around 1400-1500 a day, so I was eating like 1700-1900 and losing .5-1lb a week. I haven't been "dieting" in a while, I've basically just been maintaining without counting calories.had a very quick look in your diary and theres some things you could change so you're getting more calories for the same amount of food -
ditch the fage 0% yoghurt in favour of full fat stuff,
add peanut butter,
swap almond milk for full fat stuff
swap chicken for beef or pork
salmon or tuna are higher calorie fish (if you eat fish)
Thank you for the suggestions! Yeah I'm definitely going to get full-fat greek yogurt, I just still have the 0% stuff around from before I started my bulk. I hate pretty much every milk besides almond milk, and I'm super picky about meat and mostly only eat chicken or very lean beef (can't stand fish). But again, more peanut butter is always a great idea - I loooooove PBI think I see the issue, I think the OP has made the false mental connection of "low calorie" equals "healthy." Eating whole nutrient sense foods is a wonderful thing, just try to avoid the lower calorie options when bulking. Also, lots of carbs. More carbs means more glycogen, more glycogen means better lifts, better lifts mean more muscle. Now's the time to gorge on white bread and potatoes! (Kidding, sort of.)
Haha, thanks! I looooove bread and potatoes
I've just gotten used to not eating as much of that stuff. Never fear, I definitely don't associate "low calorie" with "healthy." Like I said, I get over 100g of fat a day. I don't mind fatty or high-calorie foods one bit. The problem is that most of the "healthy" foods I really enjoy (chicken, vegetables, greek yogurt, etc.) tend to be naturally lower in calories. I will up the carbs though!!Drink whole milk. GO MAD (gallon of milk a day) if you feel like it.
Oh lord I hate milk, this sounds awful hahaha. But thank you for your post, it was very helpful!!
If you hate milk then I've one thing to say to you - cheese! :happy:
Yessss I love cheese I will have to add more of that into my diet as well.
Also, to all of you who have suggested dark chocolate: thank you. I totally forgot that is a thing and I will be picking some up today.
Thank you all for the great suggestions, I'm going to keep working at it!0 -
I eat 90% clean, which gives me the allowance to eat something junky a few times a week to jack my calories up. My biggest aid is protein shakes. I just cant act lije a competitive eater every single day-i have cardiac problems that make it hard to eat at all certain days. I make a shake with several scoops of protein (mass gainer, whey, blended- whatever sounds good) and make about 3 glasses of it with one of my recipes (pumpkin spice, butterfinger, white chocolate mint, black forest, etc). The recipes are to die for and usually about 650-750 calories per bottle, some more and some less.
It isnt ideal to get calories exclusively like that (but with a medical condition, something is better than nothing for me). If you eat all day and still cant hit it, add protein to coffee in the morning (if no coffee-vanilla protein/green tea/cinnamon/ginger/allspice BAM CHhai tea) or replace a beverage with one (isopure is lpwrr calories BUT way bettrr than a milkshake in my texas heat.
Add things like flax/chia/wheat germ/sesame seeds to stuff. A few small spoonfulls adds up throughout the day.
When you make things like spagetti-use larger noodles and double the portion (whole wheat, homemade, ehatever!)
My favorite bulk meal is simple and pretty high cal.
Hobo dinner:
Round steak or ground chuck in a patty. Salt, pepper, garlic. Place on a sheet of aluminum foil.
1-2 potatoes, peeled and sliced 1/2-3/4"-on top of the patty.
3-6 carrots sliced same as potatoes-goes on top.
1-2 onions, see above.
Salt and pepper the whole thing, add a good heap of butter and wrap like a gift in the foil. Put on a cookie sheet and bake at 350 for about 45 minutes.
eta: i eat about 2800-3000 calories a day 0
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