Overtraining....? Lack of progress...?

2

Replies

  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    I have started to add a little running to my selection, doing about 2-3 times a week. I started barely making it 15 min, but today I made it 25 min at good pace (def faster than before).

    Is there a number (eg speed, distance) attached to the "good pace"?

    I always logged it at 10min miles to be on the save side calorie wise and I think that is what I started with. Today was much more an 8 min mile. :-)
    Maybe 8 1/2. But I do not think any slower.
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    Have you considered that you may be gaining muscle mass while losing fat?
    If you're doing heavy lifting (or any real lifting in fact) the weight loss may not be representative of your actual body composition?

    I was in a similar position to you, started out doing a mix of lifting and cardio. Weight stayed pretty much the same for 2-3 months and started to get disheartened until i started to see clear body changes.

    I went and got a DEXA scan to give me a starting point, and used photos to track my progess. I'll be getting another DEXA soon, just to see how far I've come!


    I think I really might have to look at other measures. I feel goofy with the tape and don't know I can measure correctly and I do not have access to high tech methods. Maybe I just need to get over it and use the tape.
    I tried to judge whether my pants/cloth fit differently and as far as I can tell that is not so. :-(
    I do feel stronger though and maybe I am building muscle. I read however in some sections of MFP that you don't really gain muscle when losing fat at a deficit? Is that true?
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    For your TDEE you might want to just try an average of light active and moderate active. It is possible that you are on the lower end of light active...which would mean some weight loss, but it would be pretty slow if you were starting with that as the base and deducting your 20% or whatever.

    When I did my TDEE I started out kinda high myself because I really felt like I was doing a lot of exercise and also running around chasing a 1 y.o. and 3 y.o....turns out I'm more of an average of moderate and light active. Also, you can just play with your calories a little...if you've gone 4-6 weeks and you're not seeing the progress, dial it down 100 calories or something (provided of course that you're not under eating)

    I am def looking into adjusting my overall calories. But since I am still concerned about overtraining etc I am def going to take it slow.
    100kcal sounds reasonable though. :-)
  • wilsoje74
    wilsoje74 Posts: 1,720 Member
    I have started to add a little running to my selection, doing about 2-3 times a week. I started barely making it 15 min, but today I made it 25 min at good pace (def faster than before).

    Is there a number (eg speed, distance) attached to the "good pace"?

    I always logged it at 10min miles to be on the save side calorie wise and I think that is what I started with. Today was much more an 8 min mile. :-)
    Maybe 8 1/2. But I do not think any slower.
    Wow that is really fast! I've been running for a couple years and my fastest is 9. What is your weight training program? An hour of cardio and some weights doesn't seem to be too much, but you could do strength on opposite days of your cardio if you feel it's too much. If you aren't losing like you want, you are either underestimating your good cals or overestimating your exercise cals.
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    Wow that is really fast! I've been running for a couple years and my fastest is 9. What is your weight training program? An hour of cardio and some weights doesn't seem to be too much, but you could do strength on opposite days of your cardio if you feel it's too much. If you aren't losing like you want, you are either underestimating your good cals or overestimating your exercise cals.

    I used to do a lot of 2-3 mile running all my life to support my tennis training... which is what I did very seriously. I guess that helps get back to the time I have. We used to have a girl on the team who finished a mile (of two) in way under 7 min. That was killing me... I never could get close to her. LOL I was always very competitive so that just didn't sit well with me.

    ... asides I have to admit... I am not a fan of jogging.... I run to get it over with lol.. I actually struggle going slow.

    Weight wise I am still sort of following the body for life method (EAS) which has worked great for me in the past but must admit I am still only doing 3/4 of the exercises per workout mainly due to time constraints (the workouts are about 45 min and generally I have a little more than 1/2).

    Thinking about it like this.....Maybe I SHOULD look at my schedule and and not do both in one day... I do about 20-25 min of cardio before lifting... if I was to do just a 5 min warm up I would have enough time to do a full lifting routine in...

    The program generally targets upper and lower separate
    It Takes 2 exercises per muscle group (ex. biceps), a primary with which you do 12, 10, 8, 6, 12 reps, a secondary with 12 reps. The purpose is to increase your intensity with each set... subjectively feeling you are doing a level 5, 6, 7,8, 9 of intensity, and a 10 with the secondary (out of 10, level 5 nice little warm up, 9 you finish but you contemplate whether you could, 10 you basically are barely if at all going to make the last 1-2 reps of the set). You take 30 sec rest between sets except when you switch between primary & secondary... no rest there.... and I take a min between muscle groups. There are generally about 4-5 muscle groups in a work out.

    More here:
    http://bodyforlife.com/library/exercise/weight-training

    Maybe I really need to split my days more clearly into cardio & weights. I have been so focused on burning calories and getting my stamina up I have been sort of obsessing with cardio. But then estimating my calories will be even harder... sigh....
  • MissMormie
    MissMormie Posts: 359 Member
    What are you training for? Fitness? But what is that to you?

    I recommend slitting your weight goal into two separate goals that you'll track separately as well.

    1. Losing weight 90% of losing weight is eating healthy. So track your calories as you've been doing and making sure you get in enough protein (to build those muscles).
    2. get fitter Determine what your fitness goals are. Do you want to run a 5k? Do you want to keep a certain pace, do you want to bike for 40km? Do you want to do a deadlift with 250lbs? By setting those goals you'll be able to set a training schedule and see you're making progress. Also, if you're constantly not able to meet your schedule, staying at the same level or even sliding back you'll know you've been overtraining.

    I would suggest cutting down on the cardio a bit. Yes it burns calories, but I very much doubt it's sustainable. Better to find something you can do for the next 10 years rather than a max of 10 months.
  • wilsoje74
    wilsoje74 Posts: 1,720 Member
    20-60 min of cardio is not that much, I'd say its sustainable.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    My weight is very similar to yours and I think your exercise calories are grossly exagerated. 450 cals for 20mins is very dubious I'm afraid.

    I did a session on a Spinning bike yesterday to test my maximum effort over an hour and didn't quite manage to get to 800 cals.
    Running at 8mph (7.5 minute mile) for 15 mins would only be about 220 for me.

    A decent HRM might be a good investment.
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    My weight is very similar to yours and I think your exercise calories are grossly exagerated. 450 cals for 20mins is very dubious I'm afraid.

    I did a session on a Spinning bike yesterday to test my maximum effort over an hour and didn't quite manage to get to 800 cals.
    Running at 8mph (7.5 minute mile) for 15 mins would only be about 220 for me.

    A decent HRM might be a good investment.

    Ouch...... Thank you for sharing.... though.... that sucks! Blargh! lol

    I definitely need to adjust my perception of "burned" it appears. I think I will go with what was suggested to basically use a flat 100kcal for a good intensity 10 min work out or 1 mile run.

    As much as reallity sometimes sucks I am really greatful for all of yours' feedback on this.

    Blast those machines giving you false hope!
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    What are you training for? Fitness? But what is that to you?

    I recommend slitting your weight goal into two separate goals that you'll track separately as well.

    1. Losing weight 90% of losing weight is eating healthy. So track your calories as you've been doing and making sure you get in enough protein (to build those muscles).
    2. get fitter Determine what your fitness goals are. Do you want to run a 5k? Do you want to keep a certain pace, do you want to bike for 40km? Do you want to do a deadlift with 250lbs? By setting those goals you'll be able to set a training schedule and see you're making progress. Also, if you're constantly not able to meet your schedule, staying at the same level or even sliding back you'll know you've been overtraining.

    I would suggest cutting down on the cardio a bit. Yes it burns calories, but I very much doubt it's sustainable. Better to find something you can do for the next 10 years rather than a max of 10 months.

    MissMormie,

    This is a really good question!

    I have been sort of wishy washy about this. I know ultimately I would like to see my weight back around 142-145 which is a good & health & easily sustainable weight for me (about 25lbs to go). But I really want to just be in good shape too. I always thought to myself I want to be physically able to do everything I need to do, be it handle all my furniture during a move, clear out the yard after a storm, keep up with the kids, dog, husband etc (sorry I know that sounds silly but I don't know how to explain it better but basically a good life balance for an active life style of cardio, strength and flexibility with high standards for myself)

    I don't really have a specific measurable goal though or target to work towards. I would like to actually see my muscles (definition etc.) but again, hardly measurable.... except maybe setting a body fat % goal? I always was involved in some sort of organized sport and had my goals there... which always worked really well for me..... but not anymore and I really don't want to get back into any structured (scheduled/managed by someone else like a team) commitment. Done it for years and the last several years it was really draining on my family esp. while we are going through very volitile schedules with our kids thanks to custody issues etc. I have been enjoying fitting things in as I can.

    I used to do a lot of road biking (boy did the weight drop off), but then got hit by a car badly (recovered, still with a dent in my leg but fully functional heh) and haven't really dared since then to get back into it (since my road bike got totalled I haven't reinvested into another one.... sooo I would have to do that since if I do something I want to do it all the way... sigh!)

    I always enjoyed weights, agility type stuff (but not sure how to train that on my own). I had looked at a Spartan race but none are close by and I don't really know how to train for those (esp without getting injured.... I have a thing about jumping... it freaks me out.... I have broken my ankles about 6 times due to jumping or jumping of something and rolling it..... sooooooo getting goosebumps right now just writing about it)


    So with that being said.... asides from running (ex 5K.... not liking the running) do you have any other suggestions? 'Cause the more I think about it the more i like the idea actually of working towards a more specific goal.....
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    20-60 min of cardio is not that much, I'd say its sustainable.

    I think it is too. I don't see 20 min minimum at least 5 days a week as so much. However, I suppose it depends on what your goal is and also the intensity of the workout. I do want stamina, endurance and a good overall condition..... So maybe doing the cardio right now is still good for cutting the calories and working on that overall condition, but I can def see that if you want to build muscle it can be too much.

    I am thinking I still want to work out up to 60 min at least 3 times a week, but maybe then as discussed earlier don't do cardio the rest of the time to allow for a complete weight routine......

    Might be more realistic interest wise too. I tend to (unfortunately) get bored with cardio over long times.....
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    Wow... I just logged the first cardio with the new approach. 25 min = 250 kcal.......
    Sigh.... the previous 450 sounded MUUUUUCH better!
    Hope this works. :-) Looking forward to seeing some improvements.

    P.S.: It helped to deactivate the cal counter on the machine.... THAT would have just been too cruel! LOL
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
    LOL :-). Yeah but ditto on the HRM if you want super accurate numbers. But even then the really particular people won't log the entire burn because they want to subtract the calories you'd be burning just existing (daily Base metabolic rate, I think, divided by 24 hours, calories for each hour).

    I do wish you more predictable weight loss numbers that don't drive you nuts, but 2 lbs a month at your weight I think is pretty good. But that's just me :-). Good luck and have fun!!!
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    Goooood morning....

    Ok so WEEEIIIIRD!

    The last two days I have been following some of the advice that came here through this post. Mostly logging lower burn rate for exercise... which really was just one day, and consuming more around 1600 than 1800kcal.

    Only other change I can think of: Instead of waiting until 9-9:30 am to eat my 2 egg breakfast, I am now having a protein shake with a banana around 7:30ish then the eggs around 10:30.

    I have been annoyingly hungry these last two days though right around 5pm and I am not happy about it for the simple reason that I do not think it will be sustainable (I can't handle being hungry... grrrr... esp being borderline hypoglycemic.... my husband doesn't appreciate it if I don't eat... let's just say it that way) nor healthy in the long run (and it was hunger, not just craving. 100% certain on that).

    Today I was 164.8. When I first posted this..... 168.8!

    While I was delighted (naturally!) I was also kind of shocked and am trying to wrap my brain around this sudden drop... after having not been able to budge away much from 168ish range. I haven't see a 164 on the scale in many many months.

    So much for "predictable weightloss" JaneiR36! LOL

    Any thoughts?

    Also can anyone explain how to actually use the HRM? Obviously it measures... your heart rate.... hmmm... but how does that translate into kcals? Energy expenditure?
  • wilsoje74
    wilsoje74 Posts: 1,720 Member
    You can probably eat a little more, since you are losing. However, try to weigh weekly or every other. It's too soon to really have much of a difference, and may just be normal fluctuations. I've never used a HRM, so I can't help there, I have really seen the need to spend the money. I really don't need to know my HR while working out.
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    You can probably eat a little more, since you are losing. However, try to weigh weekly or every other. It's too soon to really have much of a difference, and may just be normal fluctuations. I've never used a HRM, so I can't help there, I have really seen the need to spend the money. I really don't need to know my HR while working out.

    Could be. Just sort of strange & sudden and not as usual.
    I do think I need to eat more though. I have a headache this am and feeling a bit dizzy.

    I never thought of using a HRM, but so many seem to swear by it. I never can get the machines to measure my HR while I work out (like on the elliptical) and it has always caused frustration. Doesn't mean its not helpful but I guess I always felt I didn't want to invest without really feeling or understanding the benefit.
  • wilsoje74
    wilsoje74 Posts: 1,720 Member
    Why do you need to know your HR? Or do you want it for cal burn?
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    That is what I am wondering. I can see it to be useful if you have to track it due to health conditions or something, but it appears there is a general opinion knowing your heart rate or what heart rate you are working it can help you with guestimating your calories more accurately.

    One complicating factor I might have is that I do a lot of intervall stuff so my heart rate is generally not consistent throughout the exercise (at least not supposed to be :-))
  • RenshiG
    RenshiG Posts: 71 Member
    Totally confused:

    So 3 days ago I was at 168... which is where I had been lingering for months and months. The lowest I was over the last 5 or so months was 166.8.

    Suddenly... I post this threat.... and my weight drops about 2lbs a day....... couple days in a row.... I was delighted over the 164lbs I saw on the scale yesterday.....

    This am I was 162!!!!! what the heck? I figured esp since yesterday was my rest day (I still ate according to plan) I would be either staying around 164 or if it was a bit of a fluke hoping it wouldn't go higher than 165..... but 162? Seriously? And I checked.... I still have all my limbs etc......

    Can anyone explain that? Ohhhh and don't say its the magic of posting on MFP..... ROFL!
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    That is what I am wondering. I can see it to be useful if you have to track it due to health conditions or something, but it appears there is a general opinion knowing your heart rate or what heart rate you are working it can help you with guestimating your calories more accurately.

    One complicating factor I might have is that I do a lot of intervall stuff so my heart rate is generally not consistent throughout the exercise (at least not supposed to be :-))

    A HRM will give you a more accurate estimate of calories burned if it is set up properly and is of adequate quality. Still an estimate but slightly more accurate, even with interval training. You're story does not surprise me. You measuring of calories and intake were likely not that accurate. Now, you are closer. Don't live and die by the scale daily. It will go up and down. As long as the overall trend over time is down, that's all that matters.