When would you start your first bulk?

I started bulking when I got to the point that I didn't like the changes I was seeing in my body with further fat loss, this was around 22% body fat according to accumeasure (I use several methods, some measure a bit higher some a bit lower than this)

I'm focused on strength and don't care so much about aesthetics, I'd rather have a 300lb+ deadlift than 6 pack abs. So I'm doing cutting between bulking phases to make sure I don't get too much fat around my waist (where my body tends to want to store it) but my focus is on health, gaining strength and increasing and maintaining a high lean body mass.

my gym has its share of high testorone teens and they work hard pushing to individual limits but not a one is putting muscle on as they have obviously missed the point and completely neglected how important it is to eat to gain..

Age as well as your lowish bodyfat allows you a golden opportunity to get this right and having seen what a year and a half on 5000cals a day did for me bulking old style when just a bit older, - to cut is just prolonging the time it ll take to pack real muscle on and if you get your training right you ll be suprised at what you can achieve in a short period of time.

5000 calories a day? Seriously? Are you just throwing out random advice? Sure does seem like it.

I eat 4000-5000 calories a day and sometimes I think that isnt even enough for me to gain weight.

You CANNOT build muscle without supplying your body with a surplus of calories and lifting weights. If you are cutting or maintaining you will not grow. As for "I dont want to be a bodybuilder" You dont get huge overnight nor do you get huge with one bulk, it takes years of bulking/cutting to get to "bodybuilder" status.

Are you seriously trying to explain to me that you need a surplus to gain?? That's not my issue here. My issue is OP just arbitrarily being told "eat 5000" calories" How do you even know how many calories he needs? You know what would happen if I just decided to eat 5000 calories a day? I would put on way more fat than I want.

He never actually told OP to eat 5000 calories a day. He just said that is what he did and that it worked for him. If you want to construe that to mean go eat 5000 calories a day then thats on you.

True, but advising someone to bulk when they are at 20% bodyfat is a different story. 20% is not low bodyfat, and he would see better gains coming in a a lower bodyfat and transitioning into a lean bulk phase, as opposed to bulking at 20% and adding more fat to his frame. Is it really a good idea to bulk up and then end with 25+% bodyfat only to end up having to cut for a year and lose some of those gains?

The op says he can see his abbs so not sure where you got 20% bodyfat from ?????

The OP said he can start seeing the outline of his abs after dieting since Dec. 2012. He is also the one that estimated his bf at 20% based on male bodyfat pictures.

Yes Joe, just focus on lifting heavy (add some more leg work )and eating enough to fuel your workouts. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is a great book and exercise program. I'll clarify why I recommended eating at maintenance, it's because most people and since you are 18, I won't expect you to be perfect, underestimate the number of calories they consume and over estimate what they burn through exercise. Having a goal of maintenance would keep your excess within reason. That was my rationale anyway. Good luck to you.

I love Rippetoe's starting strength workout I feel like a beast when I can watch my weights go up and up almost every workout. Look him up on the internet you will find out alot of good information. I also recommend buying and reading Arnold Schwarzeneggers encyclopedia to modern bodybuilding...tons of information in there for the fitness enthusiast. I have read through mine so much the pages are falling out.
There is no right time to start but you must give any program you decide to go with time to work.

Good Luck!

Hopefully this doesn't sidetrack the thread too much, but what exactly are we arguing over? Is there a "right" or "wrong" time to bulk? Is there a reason it's not just about appearance and personal preference?

As a hard set rule... no. Body is more efficient at nutrient partitioning at a lower bodyfat then at 20% though. Why begin a bulk when you are 20% and bound to gain more fat. If you're comfortable walking around at 25% bodyfat then by all means...

Gotcha... thanks.

Bulk when you start to look undersized, Cut when you look fat. That's it. Bulking while you're still carrying a bit of timber meants you'll look fat quite quickly, you can't even see when you should stop. Start it lean you can see the progress.

This is a good idea. It's generally recommended to bulk when you are 10-12% (males), the problem is does one really know his true bf?