Body recomposition and the energy balance equation

swinginchandra
swinginchandra Posts: 418 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi everyone! I have what might initially seem like a stupid simple question, but the more I think about it, the less Im sure. I'll cut to the chase with the question and then explain my back story after:

If ones goal is to maintain the same scale weight, but gain significant muscle mass -- Is the calorie question as simple as, just eat at a maintenance level, and eat your exercise calories? Or is there some hidden factor in there to do with the metabolic costs of fat vs muscle that mean I should eat at either a surplus or deficit?

There is a secondary, more personal question. I'm a sprint cyclist on the track -- basically, Im a power athlete. I weigh about what I should, but I could gain quite a bit of strength. (My goal this off season is to go from squatting 1.5x body weight to 2x body weight). I spent alot of time this year trying to lose weight, because I a perception I wasn't as trim as I could be-- I think now that was a mistake, since I've realized my weight is fine. It backfired on me a little, I've had a really hard time losing weight!! I know I'll make the biggest gains next year if I don't eat at a deficit (or even eat at a surplus), so in the long run in makes way more sense to spend a little more time at a higher BF% than I'd like, and not deal with the negatives of eating too little as an athlete. So I'm pretty set on not trying to lose weight. But the secondary question is -- as a woman who is already on the not so trim side of athletic (20% BF), would it be more effective for me to go ahead and run a 'bulk' during my weight lifting block, then run a cut during a block when there are more hours on the bike? (Taking into account the cut part didn't work for me this year) -- or will I still make decent strength gains just by making sure to eat exactly even?

Replies

  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    It sounds like you have some sport-specific goals you're after. My suggestion would be to talk to people "better" than you in that sport, and base your plan off of whatever plan made them successful.
  • swinginchandra
    swinginchandra Posts: 418 Member
    Don't get me wrong, I have a coach/nutritionist, and many mentors in my sport. I believe, however, that one thing that holds back women is their fear of eating enough to truly gain muscle. For reference the fastest sprint cyclist women in the country are basically as fast as marginally good men. So while the decision of what I do will eventually be based on reasoned discussion amongst many people who 'know' what they are talking about, I can't bug my coach about this right now, because it falls under the category of 'next year', and I still have to race nationals next week.
    Plus, the personal question aside, I think my question about body recomposition and calories is a valid one, that others may benefit from hearing the answer to. There are often well researched nuggets of wisdom on MFP!! I don't understand the biology well enough to know the answer to my question, although I have some hunches.
  • swinginchandra
    swinginchandra Posts: 418 Member
    Bump
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    If you want to build muscle / lean mass for power, while maintaining a healthy % body fat, then your weight will go up.

    To build anything on a prolonged basis requires a calorie surplus, the classic "bulk and cut" cycles of bodybuilders is to lay down more muscle in a surplus then get rid of the coincidental fat with a cutting phase.

    How would you compare with an Olympic cyclist - Height 1.65 m (5 ft 5 in), Weight 62 kg (140 lb; 9.8 st) ?

    http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/nutrition-lose-the-pounds-to-gain-speed-and-power-24762/ may be helpful.
  • michellekicks
    michellekicks Posts: 3,624 Member
    I would think you can get from 1.5xBW squat to 2xBW squat with just strength training at maintenance calories. You may not need mass at all for that kind of increase. But you definitely don't want a deficit. I'm not an expert, but if you're at 20% BF already and don't want to gain weight, just stick to maintenance calories and lift progressively heavier weights at low reps for strength gains. If you stall before you get to your goal, maybe add more fuel.
  • swinginchandra
    swinginchandra Posts: 418 Member
    Thanks guys!! Basically anything not aimed really specifically at track sprint cycling doesn't apply. I fall exactly at the mean height-weight for the female track sprinters at Athens (when AIS did a study). As a specific example, Anna Meares, who won gold in London is two inches shorter than me, and weighs 5 lbs less. However she can squat 5x300 lbs, I cannot. So I'm trying to decide what the best way to get there is! I'm thinking maybe a lean gains or micro bulk - cut cycles approach may work. I don't want to gain more than 5lbs from where Im at long term, and I'd like to keep my weight within striking distance of there... But if bulking and cutting is the best way... Maybe I'll start off eating 'maintenance' then try something else when I stall out...
  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
    I would talk to your coaches, but I think in general the fastest and easiest way to gain muscle and strength is to eat at a calorie surplus for a while and gain muscle and a little fat, then to eat at a deficit and lose mostly fat. Body recomp (where you eat at maintenance and try to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time) can take a long time and isn't very efficient. But being an athlete I don't know if you can afford to purposely gain weight. But eat at maintenance for sure, nothing less.
  • michellekicks
    michellekicks Posts: 3,624 Member
    I wasn't talking about bulk or muscle gains... just strength gains, which can be done without a surplus. I think if you're squatting 1.5xBW (which is great, BTW) you could still improve strength without a surplus provided you get adequate carbs to fuel the workouts and adequate protein. I'd think you might want to cut fat back to 20% (but not less) so you get enough of both.
  • swinginchandra
    swinginchandra Posts: 418 Member
    Awesome! How does gaining strength without gaining additional muscle fiber -> thus bulk work though? Wouldn't I want to gain the additional muscle fiber?
    Leaning towards a lean-gains approach, as it's compatible with my schedule anyway. (ie, I'm usually under on ride days, I'd have to consume SO MUCH FOOD not to be-- so instead of trying to eat to maintenance on those days, I'll eat over maintenance on the lifting days)
  • michellekicks
    michellekicks Posts: 3,624 Member
    Strength comes primarily from neuromuscular adaptation... at least to a point. You can get very strong without getting any bigger. The Stronglifts 5x5 program, for instance, is designed to build strength without size.

    Here's an article...
    http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/how-get-stronger-without-getting-bigger

    But look up Neuromuscular Adaptation online for a billion articles.
  • swinginchandra
    swinginchandra Posts: 418 Member
    Interesting I thought neuromuscular adaptation was mainly a beginning thing. I'll read!
    But, the long and short of it is, I do want to gain bulk/size!! Haha. Also, it seems as though neuromuscular adaptation is very specific to the particular exercise being performed as opposed to increasing strength. Since I'm not trying to get to 2x be squat just to do it, it's because I want to be able to adapt that strength/power to another sport. So I feel like my goal should be hypertrophy. I appreciate your comments! I can't wait to get this last race over with and start getting stronger!

    Motto for next year: Eat, Sleep, get Strong.

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