Gaining vs Exercise

3000 calorie maintenance

45-60 minutes HEAVY lifting = ~200 calories

3000+200+100 (for surplus) =3300. Not 4000

3100 cals on non workout days
3300 cals on workout days.

Nah, doesn't quite work that way for me. I can do even 3500 consistently (I did for about 6 months) and still only have a 6-8lb increase in that time.

honestly I can't decide for myself whether that's a good amount or not... lol but what I do know is it means that MFP has no clue how calories affect my body, since it usually says I'll gain 2.8 pounds a week eating the way I do.

Obviously you need to eat based on results regardless of what the numbers end up, so if math says you need to eat 3300 and eating 3300 doesn't cause weight gain or doesn't cause enough of it, then screw math.

IMO you should base your rate of gain on training experience and your tolerance for getting fat. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4lbs/month should land you in a reasonable range with 2lbs being on the "stay leaner and slow fat gains down" category and 4lbs being on the "I'm relatively new to gaining muscle so I'm going to maximize this" end.

As a generalization I'd say the closer you are to your potential (more experienced, already gained much muscle mass, etc) you would target a slower rate of gain since you're not likely capable of putting on muscle very fast. Whereas for example, a 17 year old kid who is just getting into the gym would go aggressive and make the most out of it.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

3000 calorie maintenance

45-60 minutes HEAVY lifting = ~200 calories

3000+200+100 (for surplus) =3300. Not 4000

3100 cals on non workout days
3300 cals on workout days.

Nah, doesn't quite work that way for me. I can do even 3500 consistently (I did for about 6 months) and still only have a 6-8lb increase in that time.

honestly I can't decide for myself whether that's a good amount or not... lol but what I do know is it means that MFP has no clue how calories affect my body, since it usually says I'll gain 2.8 pounds a week eating the way I do.

Definitely base your calories on results but I was trying to illustrate what other were saying about cutting out other exercise.

Since you are having trouble eating so many calories then only do the exercise that will result in muscle gain and eat enough calories to cover that exercise. That would keep additional calorie need to a minimum.

+1 pound per month is not a failure. A lot of guys trying to "lean" gain would be thrilled with that. IF you can do 3500 consistently AND you were gaining on that then I dont really see what problem you are having.

Aight so this is my new favorite section of these forums, as I'm 5'7 and probably just shy of 130 right now. I've been trying to build muscle for the last year+, but have been off the wagon for a while. That said, when I was really going hard, I put on about 8 pounds in 6 months, which was great, but my question is, with someone like me whose metabolism burns so hot, doesn't working out 5 or 6 times a week slow me down in terms of muscle growth? I like doing that much exercise, but I already have to eat about 3000 just for maintenance, and when I work out hard I have to go up to 4000 a day some times, and it's just insane. Haha

Is this a "suck it up and eat that much food" kind of thing, or should I scale back on workouts to like... 3 times a week and just do resistance/core work as opposed to any cardio?

Yeah you're just going to have to eat more.. Tough but life.. At least you don't suffer with excessive fat gain

You can't gain much muscle mass on Paleo, the "math" just doesn't support this claim...

If you get to a point that you're having difficulties or significant discomfort due to the amount of food you have to eat then it makes sense to reduce activity to help remedy that.

The alternative would be to choose more calorie dense foods if the issue is food volume.

How much cardio are you doing?

typically one heavier cardio day, and if I do a second it's usually a bit lighter, but yeah I hear ya on food density, but when you're aiming for 4000 cal you just pretty much have to be eating all the time. lol

Ultimately you're going to have to balance out:

1) Your love for cardio.
2) Your discomfort with the amount of calories you need to eat.
3) Your stance on high calorie food choices, and I say this because if you're not opposed to pop tarts (as an example) they can really provide relief to people who can't stomach the food volume they need to bulk and this is especially true if you're one who only eats whole foods.

And you will need to balance those variables to end in a caloric surplus.

If it were me, I'd dump the heavy cardio day (or significantly reduce it) and consider a 4 day training split.

Fortunately I don't actually have much of a love for cardio, so that works out.

Then I'd do what Rock says and dump it. Maybe swap in 1 pop tart. Just one. Then you can come back and make a post that says

"Ok guys I'm sorry. I FINALLY see why you all talk about Pop Tarts, these things are amazing"

:bigsmile: :bigsmile:

hahaha i've had plenty of pop tarts, and I'd agree with taunto that while they're tasty, they hardly qualify as "amazing"

however, ben+jerry's and the ****in' home made cookies I can get at the local bodega? dude. DUDE.

And one pop tart is only 200 cal, I'ma need way more than one.

Make a peanut butter sandwich out of poptarts - the jelly is already in the poptart, just put two poptarts together with peanut butter in between -mmmm really good and full of calories.

BTW - if you find you are spending too much on pop tarts try toaster tarts from Aldi, my kids like them better than real poptarts.

eat some "chubby hubby"

There are 2 solutions, both of which you stated in your original post.