Help with Squats with Bar

Take the weight off for now until you are happier.

I am guessing it is mainly a confidence issue but body weight squats are physically different to squatting with a bar. Try an empty bar (or even a broomstick) and film yourself doing it to allow you to analyse form. Only when you are used to the change in position add weight.

i'd say, its totally psychological - it was for me anyway. i had to get over myself - i just wanted to be a tough girl and lift ALL the heavy things. fine with all the other lifts but as soon as i put a bar on my back - half squat or quarter squat!!

biggest help i had was reading 'starting strength' - who knew, just sticking those knees out?!? AND i started in the house with a broomhandle and small plates. i literally started at 2.5kg - i've worked up to 55kg now, which is by no means heavy, but at least i can do the FULL squat and don't feel like i'm wasting my time anymore.

i'm obviously not recommending 2.5kg - thats just what i needed to do (because of my fear of falling over and looking like a d*ck, i think) but i HIGHLY recommend 'starting strength'.

good luck with it

Are you doing high bar or low bar squats? Try low bar if you are currently using high bar squats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0

i'd say, its totally psychological - it was for me anyway. i had to get over myself - i just wanted to be a tough girl and lift ALL the heavy things. fine with all the other lifts but as soon as i put a bar on my back - half squat or quarter squat!!

biggest help i had was reading 'starting strength' - who knew, just sticking those knees out?!? AND i started in the house with a broomhandle and small plates. i literally started at 2.5kg - i've worked up to 55kg now, which is by no means heavy, but at least i can do the FULL squat and don't feel like i'm wasting my time anymore.

i'm obviously not recommending 2.5kg - thats just what i needed to do (because of my fear of falling over and looking like a d*ck, i think) but i HIGHLY recommend 'starting strength'.

good luck with it

It's not necessarily psychologically. Some people can't even do a full squat with no weight due to mobility problems from sitting in front of a desk for years and poor mobility etc.... The drills I posted above can help with that.

cheers for those actually - i'm all sorted now (my probs were all in my head) but my daughter is having problems getting her arms back far enough and carries the bar pretty high on her back - i'll let her watch them

This move got easier for me once I learned your knees are supposed to separate as far as possible while keeping your stance shoulder width apart. Really work on your hip flexability and prepare for noticable limitations to re-occur once you try over head squats.

Are you doing high bar or low bar squats? Try low bar if you are currently using high bar squats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0

I'd almost suggest the opposite. Low bar squats produce more forward lean due to the low placement of the bar. More forward lean makes it more difficult to go deep. Think Olympic squatters vs. a powerlifting squat. Low bar helps move more weight, but higher bar gives better depth.

I tend towards lower bar and am always fighting with depth and am working on moving the bar up a bit to combat the issue.

To the original poster, do you squat in a rack with pins? If not, do it. You may be cutting them high because you're afraid to fail. If you have pins set up, there's no safety issue with failing. There may be a feeling of silly, but not safety. I've left a bar on the pins more than once and you get over it.

If you're interested, video your squat and look at it critically and see what the issue is. You may also want to post it on a site where people can you you useful feedback.

It depends on the individual, but there are people that cannot go to depth with a high bar squat. I'm one of them, and those with whom I have worked out are the same. The point is to make sure that the OP knows that there isn't just one way to squat and to find out how her body moves. I personally don't think that comparing highly trained individuals who also have genetic predispositions for their sports is necessarily helpful in this context.

I absolutely agree though that the OP should be taking video and possibly posting them in one of the lifting groups. I'd avoid the genpop for those.

I agree that each individual should learn how their own body works. I have very long femurs and watch all the short legged people squatting with what seems to be incredible ease. I feel like I have to travel 10 miles to hit depth. Who knew I'd ever be jealous of short legged women Most people I compete with don't have a genetic disposition for their sport. It's mostly hard work, understanding their own bodies and time under a bar.

Most people new to lifting generally use a high bar position because they usually see bar placement as the bar merely 'resting' on their shoulders as opposed to an active tightening of the upper back and bending of the bar.

If you have 12 minutes, this is the best tutorial for squat set-up that I have come across. It is demonstrated by Suzanne Hartwig Gary and narrated by her husband. Although, these were all things that I 'knew' having them laid out in this manner made it easy to follow and are steps that I still run through in my head even during competition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtPN-ftmxG8

As for posting videos, again, I agree with you. Pick carefully where you post them. I would avoid sites like BB.com and T-nation because they are full of people with big opinions and often little actual experience. There are a number of very experienced individuals but if you don't post there, you won't know who is an idiot and who is legit. Some people like to comment because they like to see the sound of their own voices. I would suggest a site called http://www.lift.net. There are a number of serious lifters and the idiot quota is much lower. You would get solid feedback without the sounds of big swinging ****s.

Are you doing high bar or low bar squats? Try low bar if you are currently using high bar squats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0

I'd almost suggest the opposite. Low bar squats produce more forward lean due to the low placement of the bar. More forward lean makes it more difficult to go deep. Think Olympic squatters vs. a powerlifting squat. Low bar helps move more weight, but higher bar gives better depth.

I tend towards lower bar and am always fighting with depth and am working on moving the bar up a bit to combat the issue.

To the original poster, do you squat in a rack with pins? If not, do it. You may be cutting them high because you're afraid to fail. If you have pins set up, there's no safety issue with failing. There may be a feeling of silly, but not safety. I've left a bar on the pins more than once and you get over it.

If you're interested, video your squat and look at it critically and see what the issue is. You may also want to post it on a site where people can you you useful feedback.

It depends on the individual, but there are people that cannot go to depth with a high bar squat. I'm one of them, and those with whom I have worked out are the same. The point is to make sure that the OP knows that there isn't just one way to squat and to find out how her body moves. I personally don't think that comparing highly trained individuals who also have genetic predispositions for their sports is necessarily helpful in this context.

I absolutely agree though that the OP should be taking video and possibly posting them in one of the lifting groups. I'd avoid the genpop for those.

I agree that each individual should learn how their own body works. I have very long femurs and watch all the short legged people squatting with what seems to be incredible ease. I feel like I have to travel 10 miles to hit depth. Who knew I'd ever be jealous of short legged women Most people I compete with don't have a genetic disposition for their sport. It's mostly hard work, understanding their own bodies and time under a bar.

Most people new to lifting generally use a high bar position because they usually see bar placement as the bar merely 'resting' on their shoulders as opposed to an active tightening of the upper back and bending of the bar.

If you have 12 minutes, this is the best tutorial for squat set-up that I have come across. It is demonstrated by Suzanne Hartwig Gary and narrated by her husband. Although, these were all things that I 'knew' having them laid out in this manner made it easy to follow and are steps that I still run through in my head even during competition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtPN-ftmxG8

As for posting videos, again, I agree with you. Pick carefully where you post them. I would avoid sites like BB.com and T-nation because they are full of people with big opinions and often little actual experience. There are a number of very experienced individuals but if you don't post there, you won't know who is an idiot and who is legit. Some people like to comment because they like to see the sound of their own voices. I would suggest a site called http://www.lift.net. There are a number of serious lifters and the idiot quota is much lower. You would get solid feedback without the sounds of big swinging ****s.

Agreed on newbies using the high bar position, and avoiding T-Nation, and that is why I mentioned the low bar squat and the video. The video is from Mark Rippetoe, and admittedly he is a proponent of low bar squatting for training, but he is very good with technique. He is also the author of Starting Strength and I like him even though I use Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 for programing. There's a fair amount of disagreement and trash talk among the proponents of high bar and low bar squatting (pretty much like everything else in lifting) which I tend to ignore, and it sounds like you are the same. The problem is that some of those big swinging ****s really know what they're doing. It's separating them from the blow hards that can be difficult.

I honestly ended up accidentally falling into low bar squatting over the years because it is what worked for me. I eventually honed my form and learned what was going on, and I'd like for the OP to avoid that long, winding trip, if possible.

Anyway, good stuff, and good luck, OP.

I'll also suggest to check your bar position, and I myself would advise you to get comfortable with high bar first of all, owing to the greater forward tilt in your trunk on a low bar, which restricts depth.

I love SS, and a ton of what Ripp has to say, but beware taking his squat form advice as gospel. It's directed at beginners and, specifically, tuned to encourage people to *overcorrect* the bulk of deficiencies, under the assumption that people will inadequately perform the overcorrection, ending up right around where they ought to be.

TL:DR---Rippetoe squat form advice is joked about by serious powerlifters. Take in information and advice from multiple sources.

See my note above on trash talk and finding what works for the lifter. You do yourself a disservice when you refuse to consider information from various respected sources, and respected sources will often disagree with each other. Every one of leading trainers and lifters have a following who believe their word is the gospel truth. That's a far cry from what I have said above.

I'm not sure if the last couple of people who quoted my comment re: Rip and Squats were agreeing or disagreeing with me. Basically, what I was trying to say is that he's a well-regarded beginner and perhaps intermediate strength coach, and IMHO his SS program is the best beginner strength training program there is, period. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that all of his advice is perfect, or that your preferred form of any of the various lifts is going to stay the same forever. Hell, I just found out that Brandon Lilly squatted high bar until like a year ago, and that guy has a 2100+ lb raw 3 lift total. Yeah, most powerlifters go low-bar. But the same things don't work for everyone. So, like I said, get advice from a variety of places and try a variety of things.

I was in agreement.

You have only to watch a PL meet to see a wide variety of top level athletes that perform the same movement in very different ways all with a lot of success.

I'm great with front squats and body weight squats, but back squats and I aren't friends. After a month of no success I got about 25 second opinions, and it seems to be a core strength issue.

That seems counterintuitive to me. Front squats are generally way rougher on the abs than back squats. Maybe it's mid/low back weakness?

I thought I had hip flexor issues and it turned out it was actually my IT band. Try rolling that daily and see if things improve.

I have problems foam rolling normally (why the hell are all foam rollers 6"+ diameter!?) so I use either a piece of 4" diameter pvp pipe or lacrosse balls for the most part. And yeah, it hurts like the ****ens.

If you're worried about your form, I would definitely have someone check it. At least then you can find out if that is the issue or it's something else. Otherwise it could be a mobility issue like a few other people said. In that case you can either work on mobility or there are ways to adapt the movement. It also could be that you're starting out with too much weight. If it is just your confidence, I would recommend starting with box squats. They're a powerlifting exercise but the gym I interned at used them a lot to help people build confidence in the movement. This is a pretty good demonstration: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/box-squat

Thank you for all the advice! I didn't realize there was a high and low position. I've been doing low because it felt more comfortable on my back but I'm willing to try other methods. I'll check out the links and try some different things tonight. Thanks!

I have always found low-bar to be much more comfortable, but high bar is fairly tolerable once you learn to pack your neck before unracking the bar, and it's probably a better training lift. Most people can get more ROM with high-bar, but low-bar is generally capable of moving more total weight (for max strength testing and competition).

Bumping for the information, I am also trying to progress from Body weight squats onto barbell squats.