PALEO: pros, cons and whatever else you may think?

Or maybe better said a lot of foods blow my macros out of the water in a hot minute.

One reasonably healthy typical Subway sandwich can be a half a day's calories.

Facepalm*

If the foods blow your macros out of the water then it clearly DOESNT FIT YOUR MACROS. Youredoinitwrong.jpg

Indeed, but that makes it a very interesting point....when a "healthy typical subway sandwich" doesn't fit ones macros...

That's impossible.

The most one can say is that the Subway Sandwich doesn't fit their macros based on everything else they're choosing to eat that day.

Which can be true for any food, and for any person.

Sure. However for me, at my age, a "healthy subway sandwich" which runs about 50+ carbs would definitely bite into my macros and leave me quite hungry for the rest of my day, from my experience. (and lacking nutrients). So I choose to get those 50 carbs (about 1/3 of my days carbs) elsewhere. Because for ME that is more sustainable....

You miss the point. Whether you choose to prioritize other foods over it isn't the issue. The fact of the matter it that is it OK to eat if it fits into your macros thus it doesn't NEED to be on a banned food list.

Not missing the point. I rant the iifym calculator

A "healthy subway sandwich" which runs about 50+ carbs would definitely bite into my macros and leave me quite hungry for the rest of my day, from my experience. (and lacking nutrients). So I choose to get those 50 carbs (about 1/3 of my days carbs) elsewhere. Because for ME that is more sustainable....
I run. I ride. I walk. I lift. I do pilates. my 40% is likely a bit higher than many women my age.
I'm taller. I have more lean body mass.
http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

could be kinda tight for the average short woman who doesn't do what I do. Not a lot of room for donuts there.
I think iifym works great for many. But to show donuts and pizza to a short 50 year old? Yeah not so healthy (and a daily occurance on here).

fwiw I have no banned foods list. I have a philosophy around which I build my meals...

Eat your subway sandwich with 5 cups worth of steamed broccoli, problem solved. An additional 25g carbs or so and you'll blow the rest of your micros and fiber out of the water and not be hungry.

I follow IIFYM as well and I make sure to build a base of nutritionally dense foods to hit my macros and micros. From there I fell in the rest with other foods. That's the whole concept.

A great answer to this question by a sports star here in Australia. I am not saying I agree or disagree but he makes some excellent points. For ease I have copied and pasted his response from the blog below, but link to where I found it is;

http://www.rebeccajuddloves.com/category/ask-bec/

Warning : Its a long read!


Today I thought I’d investigate a very popular diet at the minute, The Paleo Diet. As its name suggests, it aims to mimic the eating patterns of our Paleolithic ancestors that roamed the Earth over 10,000 years ago.

The diet can be traced back to the 1970’s and a book called “The Stone Age Diet.” The Paleo Diet eating plan involves eating lots of meat, eggs, fruit, most vegetables, most nuts and seeds whilst avoiding grains, legumes, milk, and milk products, refined sugars, high omega-6 vegetable oils, tomatoes, potatoes, added salt, coffee and alcohol. The motives behind what to eat and what to avoid stems from the belief that human beings hadn’t evolved enough to handle foods that have existed post the Agricultural revolution (the period post the Paleolithic period).

The simple belief that we weren’t that different to our cave men ancestors and that we were designed to eat what they did made logical sense to me, so I thought it was worth exploring more. I however had to enlist some serious help to work out whether this diet was good for you or whether it had some shortcomings. To help me out I enlisted my mate, whom I can best describe as a Mad Professor whom I’d be comfortable as claiming to have world class nutrition knowledge. What he came back with was amazing, however after receiving instructions from “The Boss” that I had to “get to the point because RJL readers don’t have all day!” I’ve tried to get you the most interesting parts of his research whilst also listing some extra links to any RJL fans that want to take their research that little bit further.

One of the major problems the Mad Professor had with the Paleo Diet was the lack of grains and legumes in it. The problem he had with this was two fold, firstly grains and legumes have valuable fibre and anti oxidants which are good for optimal immune system function as well as reducing the more serious risk of colon cancer whilst protecting us from heart disease. And secondly the claims that grains and legumes weren’t eaten by our Paleolithic ancestor’s are simply untrue. He’s uncovered research showing stone tool evidence of instruments used to grind seeds and grains from 30,000 years ago. He also found some studies showing micro fossils found in teeth/plaque showing and abundance of plants, fruits, grains and legumes in our Neanderthal ancestors (from this I’ve also deduced that some of our ancestors didn’t floss regularly either!!).

The other problem the Mad Professor had with comparing current versions of the Paleo Diet to what our ancestors ate 10,000 years ago is that many of the products used in today’s version of the diet weren’t the same as what our ancestors ate all those years ago. Some examples of these discrepancies are:
•Banana’s used in today’s diets are unlike the wild seed filled, almost inedible ones of previous times
•Lettuces our ancestors ate were bitter, indigestible and with a large spine
•Tomatoes had toxins present which are no longer present
•Olive oil is the only natural vegetable oil that can be harvested without synthetic chemicals but still requires presses to produce which was not available to our ancestors
•Wild avocado’s, unlike today’s versions were very small with only millimetres of bruit
•Broccoli didn’t exist
•Wild carrots contained natural pesticides that we have bred out and made bigger and eliminated the bitterness
•Similarly we have bred out the cyanide in almonds so we can consume them
•Grains and legumes have been proven to be protective to health by improving blood lipid profiles, Glucose control, reduction of inflammation and reduced risk of stroke and heart disease
•Milk or diary don’t produce acid and has definite bone health protective properties in nearly ALL studies
•Paleo advocates suggest sugar causes obesity – whilst it is common sense to realise this is dependant on quantity and its balance with physical activity
•I see many Whey Protein “Paleo” meal replacements, which I am certain didn’t exist back then

As you can see the Professor really got to work on this topic. Interestingly what our ancestors ate really does differ to the commercial diet versions suggested to us. What I took out of it, was that the Paleo Diet probably had some merit in comparison to many of the other fad diets that people have asked about (lemon detox I’m looking at you!!). It does make sense to reduce food that’s been highly processed and to reduce refined sugars. It also makes sense to eat plenty of fruit and vegetables when in season (this is when they should have their richest nutrient value). But for maintaining good health it is also important to consume a balance of whole grains, legumes, low fat dairy and lean proteins to help with feeling full, maintaining muscle, reducing body fat and supporting bone health even if some of these foods are frowned upon by the Paleo Diet disciples.

If you have any more questions you might like to ask me which are diet or exercise related, please use the ‘Ask Bec’ tab.


For further research, check out these links below:


L. Cordain (2005). Origins and evolution of the Western Diet: health implications for the 21st century. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition


J. Mercader (2009). Mozambicain grass seed consumption during the Middle Stone Ages. Science


A. Revedin (2010). 30,000 year old evidence of plant food processing. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA


Y. Jang (2001) Consumption of wholegrain and legume powder reduces insulin demand, lipid perioxidation, and plasma homocysteine concentrations in patients with coronary artery disease: randomised controlled clinical trial. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol.

Oh in relation to the whole subway battle above me.....I too follow IIFYM, the particular Subway Sub I eat is in my food diary if you wish to take a look and it is 45g of carb. I am only allowed to have 125g a day and I fit it in just fine, still have a great breakfast and awesome dinner. The purpose of IIFYM is to adjust your intake so you can eat what you want and for the most part when you want.

Oh in relation to the whole subway battle above me.....I too follow IIFYM, the particular Subway Sub I eat is in my food diary if you wish to take a look and it is 45g of carb. I am only allowed to have 125g a day and I fit it in just fine, still have a great breakfast and awesome dinner. The purpose of IIFYM is to adjust your intake so you can eat what you want and for the most part when you want.

Thank you, the last sentence sums it up quite nicely.

I was being a bit facetious with the sandwich example. Sabine gets what I am trying to say though. I skip the sandwich too for the reasons she stated. This all is relative too. I can't workout hard for health reasons and mt nearly 40 year old female body keeps weight off better and is less hungry when I eat a lower carb Paleo type diet. Feel free to disagree.

No one is arguing whether you feel better eating paleo or not. If you want to cut out certain foods and don't feel bad doing it, by all means have at it. The fact of the matter is Paleo itself doesnt mean you don't have to count calories as you can still get fat, over eat, etc. It doesn't defy the laws of thermodynamics as you still need to be an a deficit to make it work. It's not the fact you're eating a paleo diet that is causing the weight loss. Its the overall deficit.

i love the concept of Paleo ,the simple basic eating ,

i personally am not willing to give up cheese.

The fact of the matter is Paleo itself doesnt mean you don't have to count calories as you can still get fat, over eat, etc. It doesn't defy the laws of thermodynamics as you still need to be an a deficit to make it work.

Why do you have to count your calories to remain in a deficit? Is counting calories really sustainable? Do you plan to count calories for the rest of your life?

It's not the fact you're eating a paleo diet that is causing the weight loss. Its the overall deficit.

So, what's the problem then? Same outcome, different path. What works for some doesn't for others.

The fact of the matter is Paleo itself doesnt mean you don't have to count calories as you can still get fat, over eat, etc. It doesn't defy the laws of thermodynamics as you still need to be an a deficit to make it work.

Why do you have to count your calories to remain in a deficit? Is counting calories really sustainable? Do you plan to count calories for the rest of your life?

It's not the fact you're eating a paleo diet that is causing the weight loss. Its the overall deficit.

So, what's the problem then? Same outcome, different path. What works for some doesn't for others.

Because you create the false perception that is somehow providing magical powers and causing you to burn fat simply by elminiating "evil processed foods". Yes, counting calories is sustainable. Yes, I plan on counting calories for as long as I'm physcially active, interesting in getting stronger, and maintaining a low body fat. Can you be in a deficit without having to count - yes, but its a shot in the dark to say the least.

The problem is making blanket statements about misinformation as to how fat loss occurs. People here who are newer to the process see the information and think - "Oh all i have to do is remove potatoes and processed foods and I can lose weight, fantastic!". In reality, not how it works.

I have no problem with eating whole, nutrient dense foods. However, I do have a problem with people trying to debunk science with a diet that isn't even founded on science.

I was being a bit facetious with the sandwich example. Sabine gets what I am trying to say though. I skip the sandwich too for the reasons she stated. This all is relative too. I can't workout hard for health reasons and mt nearly 40 year old female body keeps weight off better and is less hungry when I eat a lower carb Paleo type diet. Feel free to disagree.

Thanks. I'm not knocking iffym, just trying to get the 6'1" 200lb men to see that when you're small the amount of discretionary calories is quite small, and IFFYM can be pretty LOW CARB.

Yes, it's restrictive, but some personalities do well with restriction. I'm one of them. I lost 109 pounds a few years ago loosely following Primal. It's not as restrictive as Paleo, I don't think, because it still allows some carbs. I felt GREAT. I had no problem implementing it into any situation.

But our financial status changed dramatically, and I had to gradually go back to a cheaper way of eating. And even though we still ate healthy, the weight crept back. I miss it! primal, that is. But it just isn't financially sustainable.

Try it, see if it works for you. If you find it expensive, or it makes you feel bad, then stop.

I also liked it because, unlike more traditional no-carb type plans, it focuses on health. Healthy fats with olive and coconut oils, avocados, etc. Lean meats. legumes and grains within whatever carb limit you set for yourself. Very little bacon and steak (unless that's they way you swing! )

I did continue to count calories while doing it too. However, eating proteins and fats made it so much easier to stick to whatever cal. deficit I had at the time without feeling hungry. Also got me started on IF, which is where I'm at now, and it's working great without breaking my budget. But again, I work better with some restriction. Too many choices are my downfall!

Looked on page 1. Looked on page 7. I'm sure whatever's in between is nothing but more of the same.

Can't we all just get along? :sad: Why so much fighting?

OP: If you want to try it, go for it. If it works, keep doing it. If it doesn't, then try something different.
Good luck

"Oh all i have to do is remove potatoes and processed foods and I can lose weight, fantastic!". In reality, not how it works.

I don't think very many people think/say that. That's very much over-simplifying it. It might be more like this:

"Focus on eating plenty of good fat, fill your plate up with the best quality meat you can afford (about 1-2 palm sized portions) and the rest with veggies. Moderate your fruit & nut intake. If you are getting hungry between meals, try increasing your fat. If you do a lot of intense activity, be sure to include some starchy veggies like sweet potatoes & squash"

Any diet that has a name is silly.

Any diet that strictly prohibits certain foods is silly.

Any diet that does both of these is double-silly.

By all means focus your diet on lean meats and veggies. But don't listen to what other people tell you are acceptable foods and unacceptable foods. Focus on your nutrients and eat things you enjoy.

^^Listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about.

I was being sarcastic about the broccoli... My point is you can eat the sandwich and pair it with something else to make it more satiable.

It's not one size fit's all in terms of the macros from the calculator. It is a baseline.... If I crunch my numbers they aren't the same either. My carbs are higher than is recommended on the calculator...

No one is saying you must eat a subway sandwich, they are saying it is a possibility. Can I fit pizza into my macros? Yes. Will it take a large chunk out of my macros? Yes. Now, can I compensate and say eat just 1 slice of pizza and then have more macros to work with? Yes.

Apply the same principles to the Subway sandwich.

With most approaches (except possibly pale and atkins) you can eat subway. South Beach diet would be fine with a subway sandwich. No magic with IFFYM. I was just trying to get folks to see that a small, older woman doesn't get as much flexibility with IIFYM just as she doesn't with other diets. In fact, she gets fewer carbs than with some other plans.

IIFYM doesn't specify a carb intake.

It's IIFYM. That's If It Fits Your Macros.

If you want to eat low carb while doing IIFYM, then you just... do so.

If you choose to eat Paleo, do so because you believe in the tenants of Paleo and not because you want to lose weight. If you are "going Paleo" to lose weight or for a challenge, you will not stick with it and as soon as you stop depriving yourself of whatever you need to eliminate to "go" Paleo, you will undo most if not all of your progress.

If you think you can stick with it. Listen to yourself talk about your food choices.

If you say "I can't have that" rather than "I don't eat that" you aren't going to be successful long term.