Discourage and inform or just nod and agree?
astronomicals
Posts: 1,537 Member
What do you tell overweight people who just want to do some cardio and lift weights and have no intention of cleaning up their diet. I tell em they're just wasting their time if they think its going to result in a bunch of weight loss. What would you say?
Im talking about a diet full of beer and piles of food.... large caloric surplus..
Whats the flipside? let them waste a bunch of time and decide exercise is stupid and that its pointless? I think thats worse than hitting 'em with some hard truths to begin with..
thoughts
Im talking about a diet full of beer and piles of food.... large caloric surplus..
Whats the flipside? let them waste a bunch of time and decide exercise is stupid and that its pointless? I think thats worse than hitting 'em with some hard truths to begin with..
thoughts
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Replies
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Speaking as someone who works out and does eat like crap a lot (it's a forever struggle to eat better), there's way more reasons to work out than just losing weight. Gaining strength, cardiovascular endurance, flexibility, etc. Someone eating poorly and working out will be in better shape than one who eats poorly and doesn't work out. Of course people should have realistic expectations. I know I'm not going to lose weight by lifting and then pounding candy.0
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I figure they have one step to a healthy life down and I am in no way one to judge another. If they asked for advice I would tell them how it should go about. But if not, then I would just stay their friend to workout with them and be their for when the time comes for them wanting to get a lifestyle change down. I know how hard it is to change to healthy eating, It is easier said than done. I finally have it down packed for myself but struggle more with working out. But all in all, it will fall into sync sooner or later.0
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I don't tell them anything.
They are doing something more than laying around doing nothing. If they stick with being more active, they will discover likes and dislikes, become more informed, have changing tastes in the training world as time goes by. Who's not to say they will end up where they need to be and that they needed to experience everything along the way?
Without the freedom to make mistakes and explore different ways to do things, then there are no opportunities to learn. It's more valuable if people come to things under their own steam and in their own time and become their own people. Rather than becoming the people you think they should be.0 -
IMHO if said overweight person is not willing to help themselves initially, no manner of telling, teaching, or explaining will help them. Ever.
I have many overweight friends (I was once too) and I usually drop a line similar to "if you need some help, just ask" and wait for them.
those that are serious about cutting down and getting healthy will come to the party, and those that just want to give it another half hearted shot, you see drinking litre milks and scoffing burgers after their "workout"
tough love is an option at times, but i know more stubborn overweight people, than ones that are willing to help themselves0 -
I don't tell them anything.
They are doing something more than laying around doing nothing. If they stick with being more active, they will discover likes and dislikes, become more informed, have changing tastes in the training world as time goes by. Who's not to say they will end up where they need to be and that they needed to experience everything along the way?
Without the freedom to make mistakes and explore different ways to do things, then there are no opportunities to learn. It's more valuable if people come to things under their own steam and in their own time and become their own people. Rather than becoming the people you think they should be.
I think I've got my answer..
But
I wish I never did a lemon cleanse... I also wish I had never eaten just a pound of boneless skinless chicken breasts a day along with a lot of vegetable..I had no idea how low in calories it was.. It was hell. Neither one of those were good learning experiences.... Injuring myself increasing running mileage/speed sucked, too... Hmmm, what other dumb nutritional stuff have I done... Bad lifting regimens...
The only lesson I learned that actually helped me was injuring myself training... Do that once or twice and you learn to take it easy and let things heal. You learn to stretch and do proper warmups and cool downs... I think that could have vbeen avoided too though... It also left me with a chronic ankle injury that will probably be there for life...
Im not sure everyone has the will power to fail as many times as I have.. I'm pretty damn good at figuring out the wrong way.0 -
Id like to add that my friend wants to change. Its his idea. He wants to lift. Its his idea. I didn't ever fat shame him or tell him he should train.
He said he didnt want people seeing him do cardio which led my dumbass to make a comment about diet being more important and him not needing to do endless cardio.. No lecture or anything.. Just one comment that was accidentally discouraging. Apparently the idea of diet change is much more overwhelming than the thought of doing some cardio. I should know this. Comparison of calories burned running and calories in a hamburger can be a pretty humbling thing. And by humbling I mean depressing.... So I guess it was two sentences. Its not like I told him everything he thought was wrong and told him he had to do whatever I said.
I think I know what I'm going to do. If he ever asks for help I'll just give him a pile of stuff to read. That way if he doesnt read it I at least know I gave him what he needed to get there. This would also enable him to "do it himself" since he could read it all and formulate his own plan. Until that time I'm just going to ignore anything he says on the matter, since, I can't just nod and agree.0 -
All I said was log your food and activity on MFP. I think they understood what I meant that it's not just how hard you work in the gym but also what you are eating. I wouldn't beat yourself up for one or two truthful statements that were actually in response to his own question or comment. Why hide the truth from your own friend? Just so long as you're not preaching or judgmental, they can know they can come to you with more questions.
But for me, I will say that working out has me at the fittest I have ever been in my entire life. This, in and of itself is a goal accomplished. Fitness can be a different goal than weight loss, so it may help to confirm what the person's long and short term goals are before providing information0 -
A lot of people seem to associate exercise with weight loss rather than food - if I am asked - and only if I am asked - I will just tell them that abs are made in the kitchen. I told someone just yesterday that they could do 1000 sit ups every day but if they still ate all the sugar and crap then it wasn't gonna help - they just laughed and said they knew they had to do something about eating healthier - I have been asked enough times now that I know that it comes in stages - there comes a tipping point where you realise that the healthy eating and being active are both needed for the best results.0
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If they are serious, they need to understand that weight loss is 80% diet and 20% exercise. However, once they start to exercise, hopefully they will begin realise that it is much less effort to exercise self control, than it is to physically exercise.
I know that just by getting back into calorie watching using MFP the past few weeks, has really re-focused my food choices.
Some days when I know I won't be exercising, I consciously focus on calorie avoidance - saying no to situations (coffee/lunch/drinks etc with friends) that I know will result in excess calories and accept that it is easier NOT to eat 4-500 calories, rather than sweating it out for an hour of cardio to burn them off.0 -
[A]ccept that it is easier NOT to eat 4-500 calories, rather than sweating it out for an hour of cardio to burn them off.
Ain't that the truth. *sigh*
OP, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it - it was an honest (and correct) response to a directed question. Perhaps next time someone asks, you say the same but temper it with a "but, exercise helps gets you healthier" so it's not all negative. For all of us, it's baby steps. It's taken me many years of false starts to get to a point where the eating more healthily, with sensible portions and a sensible amount of exercise is finally paying dividends.
(And to answer the question in the topic: I'd rather encourage and inform... Baby steps, remember.)0 -
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wrong thread0
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I wopuld ask if theywant some help. Thewn i would suggest things that would help.
like watching two movies....Forks over Knives and Hungry for a change.
Both opened my eys on food in general0 -
If they are serious, they need to understand that weight loss is 80% diet and 20% exercise. However, once they start to exercise, hopefully they will begin realise that it is much less effort to exercise self control, than it is to physically exercise.
^^this
For me, seeing how much exercise you have to do to be able to eat 500 calories gives me the incentive to cut back on the food I eat. It is way easier for me to eat less, than exercise more. Besides, not many people have schedules that allow us to exercise for hours every day.0 -
Depends on the person really.
Most people respond better to positive reinforcement then positive punishment then negative reinforcement then negative punishment.
A minority do not.
Know your audience and all that.0 -
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Shake your head and move away from them...
I've tried talking to my ex-boyfriend who went to the gym everyday at lunchtime and on his way back was buying a sandwich and 2 (yes TWO!!!) packs of Walker crisps...
Seriously, what's the point?
But then again, at least he was going to the gym, whereas I wasn't doing anything at all and had binge evenings with Doritos in front of the telly...
So, before I ramble on for much longer, going to the gym and starting with exercise even without changing your diet is better than not doing anything at all.
You've got to start somewhere after all!0 -
Maybe that was his routine to *earn* those walker crisps and not get bigger!! :laugh:0
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What do you tell overweight people who just want to do some cardio and lift weights and have no intention of cleaning up their diet. I tell em they're just wasting their time if they think its going to result in a bunch of weight loss. What would you say?
Im talking about a diet full of beer and piles of food.... large caloric surplus..
Whats the flipside? let them waste a bunch of time and decide exercise is stupid and that its pointless? I think thats worse than hitting 'em with some hard truths to begin with..
thoughts
this is my hubby - hits the weights 5 or 6 times a week but eats crap.
when i got him to sign up on here (because he is clueless about nutrition) he lasted about a week before going in a massive huff because he didn't have enough calories left for some rhubarb crumble one night
i just leave him to it now.0 -
I don't tell them anything.
They are doing something more than laying around doing nothing. If they stick with being more active, they will discover likes and dislikes, become more informed, have changing tastes in the training world as time goes by. Who's not to say they will end up where they need to be and that they needed to experience everything along the way?
Without the freedom to make mistakes and explore different ways to do things, then there are no opportunities to learn. It's more valuable if people come to things under their own steam and in their own time and become their own people. Rather than becoming the people you think they should be.
This feels about right to me. I usually try to change one thing at a time. So they are now moving a bit? Good. Now lifting a bit? Even better. Let that become a habit and then introduce the next step. Then the next. Eventually they will want more and at that point I'll show them the next step. Or maybe they'll never want more, but hey, it's their life.
So I guess I'm saying nod and agree?0 -
Let them lift, leave them alone and watch em get strong as ****.0
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I have tried discouraging in the past. I have a younger cousin who is overweight. Not much, I'd guess 40-50 lbs and was posting on Facebook about this diet she was struggling on. I dropped my 2 cents about how diets don't work along with links to MFP and she ignored it all, got sick and now is on some other diet.
Another buddy of mine who severely needs to lose weight, doesn't listen to my advice at all. Eats low fat/diet type food and doesn't understand why he won't lose weight. Again, like with my cousin, I tried to get him to sign up for MFP and use it. Says he doesn't have time. *rolls eyes*
I don't say anything to anyone anymore. It's really fusterating and just frankly I don't waste my time or energy anymore. If people ask, I'll give my advice, otherwise I just shut up and don't say anything.0 -
Don't say anything. If people aren't already doing it, they aren't interested. No one likes to hear someone else proselytize. When people decide to make changes, they will do it on their own, in their own time.
Just think about how interested you are in hearing about Jesus and having your soul saved. If you aren't there already, you don't care. It's the same with telling people about the 'Jesus' of lifting and eating clean.
Nod and smile and let people walk their own path.0 -
I'm getting to the point of just nod and agree.
I hear most days about my colleagues/friends diets.
"I'm just going to eat fruit from now on and a main meal in the evening"
"I'm juicing for 2 meals a day"
"I'm doing Slimming World"
"I'm just going to eat Weetabix"
...and the list goes on. I'm starting to get sick of saying "Why don't you just eat healthier?!" and they go "mmm" and then the next day they tell me they only ate a banana and an apple for lunch... then for dinner ate a massive unhealthy dinner.
Then I see them looking at slimming pills online.
:noway: :devil:0 -
I have tried discouraging in the past. I have a younger cousin who is overweight. Not much, I'd guess 40-50 lbs and was posting on Facebook about this diet she was struggling on. I dropped my 2 cents about how diets don't work along with links to MFP and she ignored it all, got sick and now is on some other diet.
Another buddy of mine who severely needs to lose weight, doesn't listen to my advice at all. Eats low fat/diet type food and doesn't understand why he won't lose weight. Again, like with my cousin, I tried to get him to sign up for MFP and use it. Says he doesn't have time. *rolls eyes*
Oh, and this! I once spent about 20 minutes typing out some mad long email to two female colleagues inbetween jobs at work about BMR, TDEE, gave the link to MFP etc etc... they didn't reply and then I still hear them saying "I just can NOT lose weight whatever I do, so I've given up now" whilst stuffing their faces with crisps at lunch.
It makes me quite mad, so maybe I need to stop giving a sh1t about other peoples lives and stop letting it annoy me :laugh:0 -
I don't tell them anything.
They are doing something more than laying around doing nothing. If they stick with being more active, they will discover likes and dislikes, become more informed, have changing tastes in the training world as time goes by. Who's not to say they will end up where they need to be and that they needed to experience everything along the way?
Without the freedom to make mistakes and explore different ways to do things, then there are no opportunities to learn. It's more valuable if people come to things under their own steam and in their own time and become their own people. Rather than becoming the people you think they should be.
I think I've got my answer..
But
I wish I never did a lemon cleanse... I also wish I had never eaten just a pound of boneless skinless chicken breasts a day along with a lot of vegetable..I had no idea how low in calories it was.. It was hell. Neither one of those were good learning experiences.... Injuring myself increasing running mileage/speed sucked, too... Hmmm, what other dumb nutritional stuff have I done... Bad lifting regimens...
The only lesson I learned that actually helped me was injuring myself training... Do that once or twice and you learn to take it easy and let things heal. You learn to stretch and do proper warmups and cool downs... I think that could have vbeen avoided too though... It also left me with a chronic ankle injury that will probably be there for life...
Im not sure everyone has the will power to fail as many times as I have.. I'm pretty damn good at figuring out the wrong way.
this is true...but you had to learn these things on your own. When you tell people that X cleanse or X diet is bogus they just dig in and say "so and so says this or that..." Just look at the threads on here where people who are shredded and/or in great shape tell people don't do that and you can eat this and people just say "thanks, but I will do it my way..."
I think the greatest learning experiences come from personal failure..sad but true...and story of my life..
If this theoretical person is a close friend, then I would try to have an intelligent conversation with them, but if they still wanted to do it their way then I would say OK....0 -
I can't say anything directly to my partner or he'll go and do the opposite!
Instead of saying, "If you do this you'll be slim like you used to be" I say " I'm doing this so I'll be slim like I used to be!"
I think positive encouragement and just generally talking about what we do to gain results may sink in. Some people are only happy when they think it was their idea in the first place!0 -
I used to be a little overweight (178 lb, 5'8) and lifted for more or less a year with little to no results. Then two months ago, I changed my diet to lose some weight while still doing the exact same lifting routine and I made more progress in two months with adequate nutrition then I did in a year with inadequate nutrition.
I guess doing cardio and lifting without proper nutrition is better than nothing, but the results are peanuts.
If I met a guy who did like I did for a year, I'd certainly tell him he's wasting his time. The choice to do it right would be his.0 -
I used to be a little overweight (178 lb, 5'8) and lifted for more or less a year with little to no results. Then two months ago, I changed my diet to lose some weight while still doing the exact same lifting routine and I made more progress in two months with adequate nutrition then I did in a year with inadequate nutrition.
I guess doing cardio and lifting without proper nutrition is better than nothing, but the results are peanuts.
If I met a guy who did like I did for a year, I'd certainly tell him he's wasting his time. The choice to do it right would be his.
If the 'results' were fat loss, then sure, you were spinning your wheels a bit.
However, if the results were increased c-v, or strength/bone density/muscle, then you probably got those. You also gave yourself time under the bar without a calorie deficit impacting your recovery. Helping to keep your form crisper and progress in the weights faster.
All depends on what results you are talking about really.....0 -
I just had that discussion with my mom last night about a friend of hers. In her 50's. Very overweight (maybe even obese, but I don't really know the exact number to determine) and she has diabetes running rampant in her family. She had her yearly physical a few weeks again, sugar up, cholestrol up, weight up 10lbs from last year (and she's only 4'11). The only thing she could say was "I'll join a gym, all I need to do is exercise, I don't eat that much". Denial.
I wish we as a collective group could do a public service annoucement that made people understand that exercise WILL NOT fix a bad diet. And denial and excuses will only get us fat and dead over time.0 -
I don't tell them anything.
They are doing something more than laying around doing nothing. If they stick with being more active, they will discover likes and dislikes, become more informed, have changing tastes in the training world as time goes by. Who's not to say they will end up where they need to be and that they needed to experience everything along the way?
Without the freedom to make mistakes and explore different ways to do things, then there are no opportunities to learn. It's more valuable if people come to things under their own steam and in their own time and become their own people. Rather than becoming the people you think they should be.
I think I've got my answer..
But
I wish I never did a lemon cleanse... I also wish I had never eaten just a pound of boneless skinless chicken breasts a day along with a lot of vegetable..I had no idea how low in calories it was.. It was hell. Neither one of those were good learning experiences.... Injuring myself increasing running mileage/speed sucked, too... Hmmm, what other dumb nutritional stuff have I done... Bad lifting regimens...
The only lesson I learned that actually helped me was injuring myself training... Do that once or twice and you learn to take it easy and let things heal. You learn to stretch and do proper warmups and cool downs... I think that could have vbeen avoided too though... It also left me with a chronic ankle injury that will probably be there for life...
Im not sure everyone has the will power to fail as many times as I have.. I'm pretty damn good at figuring out the wrong way.
this is true...but you had to learn these things on your own. When you tell people that X cleanse or X diet is bogus they just dig in and say "so and so says this or that..." Just look at the threads on here where people who are shredded and/or in great shape tell people don't do that and you can eat this and people just say "thanks, but I will do it my way..."
I think the greatest learning experiences come from personal failure..sad but true...and story of my life..
If this theoretical person is a close friend, then I would try to have an intelligent conversation with them, but if they still wanted to do it their way then I would say OK....
Your learning by failing made me laugh. That's how I do most of my learning starting as a kid when my mom told me not to touch the iron because it was hot. It wasn't until I put my hand on the bottom of the iron that I 'knew' it was hot. It was the same with don't touch the knife, it's sharp. I'm still, figuratively, touching the bottoms of irons. Most people learn like that.
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