People who think fat is not a genetics issue

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  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    - There's no mention of lean body mass. Twins with higher LBM would burn more calories, even at rest, than a low LBM pair on the same diet.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005243222101

    Note that the overfeeding regime fed them each the same amount of excess calories over their measured energy requirement, so the same amount of food.

    "Body weight increased significantly (P<0.001) during overfeeding, the average gain being 8.1 kg . Body composition also changed significantly. Fat mass and fat-free mass increased, but the gain in adipose tissue was greater than the increase in lean tissue, as shown by the changes in the ratio of fat mass to fat-free mass, which increased from 0.13 to 0.22 (P<0.001). "

    "Although the mean increase in body weight was 8.1 kg, the standard deviation was 2.4 kg and the range 4.3 to 13.3 kg"
    When the results for all 24 men were analyzed, the correlations between the total energy ingested during the 100-day period (including the 84,000-kcal surplus) and the gains in body weight (r = 0.26), fat mass (r = 0.26), sum of 10 skin-fold—thickness measurements (r = 0.25), and abdominal visceral fat (r = −0.31) were not statistically significant.
    - ie there is no evidence from this study for calorie counting.
  • Nissi51
    Nissi51 Posts: 381 Member
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    I absolutely believe genetics play a role.

    That doesn't mean you throw your hands up in defeat. You find YOUR intake level and work it. Consistent calorie restriction is effective, genetics or not.

    Some people are able to eat more and lose, some must eat a more calorie restrictive diet to lose. I also think some of us will have to count calories for the rest of our lives. I am one of those people and I am fine with it. It's the cost of maintaining my weight loss, and to me, a price I am willing to pay.

    Get it done!
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    I think genetic factors play a role in fat loss.

    I think anyone assuming that it's all genetics and not at all behavioral, is fooling themselves quite badly. I'm not suggesting you are doing this.

    You cannot control your genetics.
    You CAN control your lifestyle choices, and fortunately time and time again when we see examples of people who sustain caloric deficits, they lose weight. So fortunately there is something that can be done about it.

    ^^^^ this

    some people are genetically predisposed to gain fat more easily than others. Some people, due to genetics, will find it harder to lose fat and keep it off than others. But harder doesn't mean impossible, so no-one is condemned to a life of obesity. That should be taken as a positive message, not a negative one. I don't think anyone wants to be condemned to a lifetime of ill health caused by obesity. Acknowledgement from others that it *is* harder for some people IMO is important, because there's nothing worse than really struggling with something then other people acting like your struggle isn't real.
  • lilbearzmom
    lilbearzmom Posts: 600 Member
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    In the long run, does it really matter if genetics play a role? I never doubted this was the case to some extent, but the same conclusion can be made according to the study: OVEREATING makes people gain weight, NOT genetics. Beyond that it's a matter of just how much they will gain when they overeat. About this article, I say, SO WHAT? Eat less and move more. This equation has not changed.
  • Satiable
    Satiable Posts: 121
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    - There's no mention of lean body mass. Twins with higher LBM would burn more calories, even at rest, than a low LBM pair on the same diet.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005243222101

    Note that the overfeeding regime fed them each the same amount of excess calories over their measured energy requirement, so the same amount of food.

    "Body weight increased significantly (P<0.001) during overfeeding, the average gain being 8.1 kg . Body composition also changed significantly. Fat mass and fat-free mass increased, but the gain in adipose tissue was greater than the increase in lean tissue, as shown by the changes in the ratio of fat mass to fat-free mass, which increased from 0.13 to 0.22 (P<0.001). "

    "Although the mean increase in body weight was 8.1 kg, the standard deviation was 2.4 kg and the range 4.3 to 13.3 kg"
    When the results for all 24 men were analyzed, the correlations between the total energy ingested during the 100-day period (including the 84,000-kcal surplus) and the gains in body weight (r = 0.26), fat mass (r = 0.26), sum of 10 skin-fold—thickness measurements (r = 0.25), and abdominal visceral fat (r = −0.31) were not statistically significant.
    - ie there is no evidence from this study for calorie counting.

    Thanks for the link, Yarwell!
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    they also did an exercise one http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1550-8528.1994.tb00087.x/pdf

    using a calorie intake deficit plus exercise protocol. Some interesting variations in fat vs carb burn during exercise, and change in same due to the protocol.

    Again the twins responded much more alike each other with much bigger variation between pairs than within.
  • Boofuls
    Boofuls Posts: 47 Member
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    It's a very interesting study. There was another similar one where people were given an extra 1000 calories a day of alcohol and there was very little weight gain.
  • grentea
    grentea Posts: 96 Member
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    At 17 some guys are still growing and they aren't at their final adult size. I think men can keep growing into their early 20s unlike most women who stop getting taller around the mid teens. This one study doesn't mean that you will always be fat. It would be more definitive if the people they used were older instead of adolescents who are still growing.
  • MyJourney1960
    MyJourney1960 Posts: 1,133 Member
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    I think genetic factors play a role in fat loss.

    I think anyone assuming that it's all genetics and not at all behavioral, is fooling themselves quite badly. I'm not suggesting you are doing this.

    You cannot control your genetics.
    You CAN control your lifestyle choices, and fortunately time and time again when we see examples of people who sustain caloric deficits, they lose weight. So fortunately there is something that can be done about it.
    this ^^

    because really, what does it matter? it's like i will say that due to my genetics, i am destined to have bad eyesight and teeth. so should i not get glasses? should i walk around bumping into people and then say "oops, it's not me, it's my genes"? no. you do what you got to do to overcome whatever less desirable genes you got.

    and really - i understand the need that scientists have to check things out but purposely making young men gain weight? that sounds like a really smart idea:noway:
  • Boofuls
    Boofuls Posts: 47 Member
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    It matters because if it really is unrealistic for me to lose and keep the weight off it is probably healthier to just maintain at current weight rather than put my body through the stress of repeated gains and losses. I am going to keep trying though, I am vain enough to shoot for a small chance of normal looking.

    Argh, I should probably ban myself from posting here today, i don't actually want to bring you all down.
  • lsorci919
    lsorci919 Posts: 772 Member
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    There are studies that say the same thing about alcoholism....
    But just because there is a history of alcoholism in my family, that doesn't make me an alcoholic!
    What makes me an alcoholic is the fact that I drank to excess, became dependent on it to run my life,
    and when I got to the point of realizing it was killing me, I couldn't quit to save my life.... that's what made me an alcoholic!

    Now, about food, it is basically the same thing, same behavior, same consequences and same results....
    When I took control of my behavior, I became free of the obsession and lost the allergy for both....

    Thanks for letting me share!

    Alcoholism is the first thing that went through my head when I read the op. I have alcoholism and obesity in my family. So by genetics I should be a fat alcoholic. Yeah..................... That's not gonna happen. Just because it runs in your family doesn't mean it has to happen to you. You control what you eat and drink. I personally think when you take control of yourself and your decisions it makes it a lot easier.
  • bellesouth18
    bellesouth18 Posts: 1,069 Member
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    I battle genetics every day with my weight loss--PCOS and low thyroid. The Synthroid I take helps with thyroid levels, but I was too old to treat the PCOS when it was discovered when I was in my early 40s. But you know what? I've lost 64 lbs. in spite of it. Those two conditions just mean that I gain weight easily and can't take it off as easily as those with normal bodies. But it hasn't meant that I can't lose at all.

    I was at a pretty normal weight until my mid 30s. I quit doing the strenuous exercise that I was used to doing and got lazy. I'm exercising again and monitoring calories and am about half way to my ultimate goal weight of 125 lbs. It can be done!
  • jennifer_417
    jennifer_417 Posts: 12,344 Member
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    After lots of research I have concluded this. You're making it way more complicated than it needs to be. Yes, genetics screwing up your weight loss are a real thing. And yes there are people that can practically eat whatever they want and not get as insanely fat as you or me. But it also doesn't stop you from losing weight unless you have a serious medical condition.

    Bad genetics is basically your body's way of saying you're gonna have to work harder to get the results you want. Not that it's impossible, just a little more difficult. That's all. Some people might lose weight a little faster but the formula for weight loss is ridiculously easy. Eat less calories than you burn. Boom. Simple right? You do that and pretty much no matter what the weight will come off. No excuses. Do it!

    Perfect.
  • evileen99
    evileen99 Posts: 1,564 Member
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    Genes can certainly influence weight, but it's 30% genetics, 70% environment.

    I come from a long line of fat women. Women who eat fried foods, smother everything in gravy or butter, never pass up dessert, and never exercised a day in their lives.

    I have managed, with those same genes, to maintain a normal weight my entire life by NOT recreating the environment I was brought up in.
  • MyJourney1960
    MyJourney1960 Posts: 1,133 Member
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    It matters because if it really is unrealistic for me to lose and keep the weight off it is probably healthier to just maintain at current weight rather than put my body through the stress of repeated gains and losses. I am going to keep trying though, I am vain enough to shoot for a small chance of normal looking.

    Argh, I should probably ban myself from posting here today, i don't actually want to bring you all down.
    no i think you are missing the point.

    while you may be genetically predisposed for *something* (obesity, etc), you *can* take steps to change this. if you are genetically tall and wide you will always be tall and wide, but that doesn't mean you have to be obese also. so the only thing stopping you fromkeeping the weight off is you. not your genetics.
  • firstsip
    firstsip Posts: 8,399 Member
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    It matters because if it really is unrealistic for me to lose and keep the weight off it is probably healthier to just maintain at current weight rather than put my body through the stress of repeated gains and losses. I am going to keep trying though, I am vain enough to shoot for a small chance of normal looking.

    Argh, I should probably ban myself from posting here today, i don't actually want to bring you all down.

    Don't scare yourself with the "90% regain statistic." That inflated number has much more to do with HOW people lose weight and their knowledge of weight gain/loss and nutrition. Look on these boards--look at every magazine on a magazine rack. People attempt to lose weight as quickly as possible, eating low calorie diets, restricting odd foods or eating only certain ones, and generally overcomplicating things.

    As a result, people: don't learn HOW their body functions, they become unhappy with what they're doing and only do so to reach a "goal weight" and then end up bingeing or overeating, AND low calorie diets (particularly with the slim emphasis on true weight lifting for women, in particular) end up with more shed lean body mass. Losing that LBM is a big deal when it comes to eating "normal" calories again--more will be put on in fat.

    If you see how simplistic weight loss/gain is and value patience, you're not going to be that "90%."
  • ElliottTN
    ElliottTN Posts: 1,614 Member
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    So maybe you should re-read this story and look at it from an entirely different perspective. Maybe something like this:

    Despite genetic factors, those who ate excess calories......gained weight.
  • ElliottTN
    ElliottTN Posts: 1,614 Member
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    Or maybe you could read the study in that: If we ever went through a time of extreme famine....I would have superior genetics.

    Regardless, what does it really matter what the study says. Are you going to print it out and carry it around with you for the rest of your life? Maybe get a hole punch and tie it with a string around your neck? Besides, how bad would life suck without the struggle in the first place.
  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    The age range could affect it because of the difference in hormone levels, a 17 year old would store more calories as muscle than fat, increasing their metabolism. Actual TDEE could be different based on actual activity done. Some people are naturally more jittery than others.
  • carolina822
    carolina822 Posts: 155 Member
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    In the long run, does it really matter if genetics play a role? I never doubted this was the case to some extent, but the same conclusion can be made according to the study: OVEREATING makes people gain weight, NOT genetics. Beyond that it's a matter of just how much they will gain when they overeat. About this article, I say, SO WHAT? Eat less and move more. This equation has not changed.

    It matters in that people still judge the overweight as lazy slobs when the fact is that it just is a lot harder and requires constant vigilance that others don't have to worry about. If you weren't naturally talented at math, and you were required to be an engineer and while you CAN do it, it takes twice the effort and is ten times as frustrating, it would be pretty crappy to tsk tsk you for wanting to be a English teacher instead.

    I'm not making excuses, just pointing out why it gets so damn hard for some of us to "simply" eat less and move more when it's such an uphil battle and one slip can wipe out a weeks worth of hard work and deprivation. Understanding that it really is harder and validating that with data makes it an easier pill ( for me at least) to swallow.

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