Running- avoiding tightness in calves
MissMollieK
Posts: 316 Member
I wanted to know if anyone out there struggles with getting tight calves after and during a run. I used to struggle with knees when I first started running a few years ago. That no longer causes me issues- and hopefully won't again, but now I seem to never stretch my calves out enough. What am I doing wrong or could I do different? Is there a way that I'm running improperly? I use a foam roller and do tons of stretches after running and also warm up- though I don't stretch as much when warming up. I would love any advice! Thanks!
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Replies
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I had issues with this when I first started running and saw a physical therapist who did a therapy called dry needling to loosen my calf muscles. They were in a constant state of being tight until he did that. Now I just stretch them by hanging my heels off of a step for about 30 seconds before and after my runs, in addition to hamstring and quad stretches.0
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The calf exercise that MissMollieK suggested is great! After each run that is what I do. I also believe that calf compression sleeves work well. I rarely run in the sleeves, but when I first started running I used them for recovery often!0
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Stretching is great, but the effects don't last long, so if you have chronically tight calves, i'd wear a night splint, to stretch the calves the entire time you sleep. Choose one that adjusts incrementally to angles smaller than 90 degrees, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Plantar-Fasciitis-Splint-Medium/dp/B006L8N71Y
I'd also wear shoes with a low heel (< 6 mm heel-to-toe drop). The low heel allows your calves to stretch farther each time your heel hits the ground, which relaxes the calves. Most shoes have a raised heel, which has the opposite effect.
It's good to transition to lower-heeled shoes cautiously, to avoid injuries.0 -
At the risk of asking the obvious.......how often (and for how long) do you wear shoes with high heels?0
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Compression socks always feel good. They push out the lactic acid that stiffens the myofibrils.0
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Compression socks always feel good. They push out the lactic acid that stiffens the myofibrils.
lactic acid does no such thing. it's a primary fuel for muscle, not a waste product. it's unrelated to soreness or tightness.0 -
Use a small firm ball such as a lacrosse ball to kneed your calf muscles to loosen them up.
You can also stand on top of said ball and kneed the bottom of your foot.
Push past the discomfort and you'll love it.0 -
I am too suffering from this as well as knee pain. How do I subdide my knee pain ?0
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Compression socks always feel good. They push out the lactic acid that stiffens the myofibrils.
lactic acid does no such thing. it's a primary fuel for muscle, not a waste product. it's unrelated to soreness or tightness.
Fuel? You're either unfamiliar with cellular respiration or you're a funny person I want to be friends with.0 -
I often struggle with it, to the point of tearing the calf muscles. In fact, I did a 5k race today and am now pretty tight! For me, the solution was seeing a p.t. I got some inserts that help reallign my feet. I also need to be very conscious of my gait. He adjusted my gait (which is controversial) but it has made all the difference. I also find that I need to ensure my hamstrings are really loose. The problems really seem to begin at the hamstrings, but it's the calves that bear the brunt of the problem.0
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Compression socks always feel good. They push out the lactic acid that stiffens the myofibrils.
lactic acid does no such thing. it's a primary fuel for muscle, not a waste product. it's unrelated to soreness or tightness.
Fuel? You're either unfamiliar with cellular respiration or you're a funny person I want to be friends with.
A third option exists, which is that you mistook lactate for pyruvate from which lactate is synthesized during anarobic cellular respiration. Its true that lactate does not contribute to soreness, but it does cause pain by lowering the pH and causing acidosis. It is indeed a byproduct of cellular respiration, specifically the oxidation of pyruvate. The build up of this waste product causes pain and temporary decreased activity between the myofibril, due to the pH change.0 -
Compression socks always feel good. They push out the lactic acid that stiffens the myofibrils.
lactic acid does no such thing. it's a primary fuel for muscle, not a waste product. it's unrelated to soreness or tightness.
Fuel? You're either unfamiliar with cellular respiration or you're a funny person I want to be friends with.
The myth you are preaching was busted years ago. Time to update the old knowledge base, bro.
here is a 2006 new york times article covering the science http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/health/nutrition/16run.html?_r=0
"As for the idea that lactic acid causes muscle soreness, Dr. Gladden said, that never made sense.
"Lactic acid will be gone from your muscles within an hour of exercise," he said. "You get sore one to three days later. The time frame is not consistent, and the mechanisms have not been found."
The understanding now is that muscle cells convert glucose or glycogen to lactic acid. The lactic acid is taken up and used as a fuel by mitochondria, the energy factories in muscle cells.
Mitochondria even have a special transporter protein to move the substance into them, Dr. Brooks found. Intense training makes a difference, he said, because it can make double the mitochondrial mass."0 -
Compression socks always feel good. They push out the lactic acid that stiffens the myofibrils.
lactic acid does no such thing. it's a primary fuel for muscle, not a waste product. it's unrelated to soreness or tightness.
Fuel? You're either unfamiliar with cellular respiration or you're a funny person I want to be friends with.
A third option exists, which is that you mistook lactate for pyruvate from which lactate is synthesized during anarobic cellular respiration. Its true that lactate does not contribute to soreness, but it does cause pain by lowering the pH and causing acidosis. It is indeed a byproduct of cellular respiration, specifically the oxidation of pyruvate. The build up of this waste product causes pain and temporary decreased activity between the myofibril, due to the pH change.
muscle soreness is still poorly understood, so your acidosis conclusion is unsound, further, it's completely unsubstantiated0 -
I never correlated soreness and acidosis. See above. The Krebs cycle of cellular respiration is well understood. However, that's an interesting article I've never see and I'll look into it.0
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I never correlated soreness and acidosis. See above. The Krebs cycle of cellular respiration is well understood. However, that's an interesting article I've never see and I'll look into it.
you don't consider pain and soreness to be synonyms? I do. Although, specifically, soreness tends to imply pain not related to injury.
It's fuel man, not waste. This is like, OLD news. By the time NYT wrote about it, it was old news. That was over 7 years ago. It will live on though, as long as someone has a lactate dispelling massage, tube sock, or special blood lactate monitoring device to sell. Don't even get me started on workout plans designed to avoid lactic acid.0 -
I never correlated soreness and acidosis. See above. The Krebs cycle of cellular respiration is well understood. However, that's an interesting article I've never see and I'll look into it.
you don't consider pain and soreness to be synonyms? I do. Although, specifically, soreness tends to imply pain not related to injury.
It's fuel man, not waste. This is like, OLD news. By the time NYT wrote about it, it was old news. That was over 7 years ago. It will live on though, as long as someone has a lactate dispelling massage, tube sock, or special blood lactate monitoring device to sell. Don't even get me started on workout plans designed to avoid lactic acid.
^ agreements on the profit ergo junk medicine point.0 -
That piqued my interest as a biology major (and someone who has heard soreness comes from lactic acid buildup), so I read up on it.
Dr. Brooks' thesis for his research (which was published in 1985, not 2006) was not on muscle soreness, but on fatigue/failure. He was challenging the coaches that said "Don't work too hard, your lactic acid will build up and then you won't be able to perform." He was challenging the idea that lactic acid buildup caused muscle failure in athletes, not the idea that it caused soreness in untrained athletes. It is a subtle, but distinct, difference. Following the rabbit hole, I found that even his studies identified that trained people were more efficient at utilizing lactic acid in muscles. This supports Dr. Brooks' hypothesis that it is a muscular fuel, but it does not refute that it contributes to DOMS in untrained people.
As for Dr. Gladden's claim, there have been experiments that measured elevated lactic levels in muscles several hours after workouts, and most researchers tend to agree that DOMS comes from a combination of unused lactic acid and an influx of lymphocytes and blood flow to repair tissue that the body is not used to having to repair.
So in summary: Don't just quote NYT articles. The journalist writing the article is giving you his interpretation of the results. In a scientific study, the details he may gloss over or the different diction he may use matters A LOT. Also, any journalist could find a guy with a PhD trying to push his research. What matters is if his methods are sound and if his results are able to be reproduced.0 -
Hmm. Looks like I have a lot of reading up to do. Also berateing my chemistrye professors for perpetuation of old sscience if indeed I find these claims of lactate as fuel to be true.0
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OP, this seems like one of those things that some people just have to eventually train through...that it resolves over time as you continue training...but that people try various things along the way and attribute their success to whatever it was they tried before it stopped being an issue when time/continued training was what actually resolved it.
(This is all just my own personal theory...or more accurately, my own speculation. Whatever you decide to try, good luck.)0 -
I wanted to know if anyone out there struggles with getting tight calves after and during a run. I used to struggle with knees when I first started running a few years ago. That no longer causes me issues- and hopefully won't again, but now I seem to never stretch my calves out enough. What am I doing wrong or could I do different? Is there a way that I'm running improperly? I use a foam roller and do tons of stretches after running and also warm up- though I don't stretch as much when warming up. I would love any advice! Thanks!
As a very overweight person my calf muscles used to tighten up considerably after a strenuous walk. I did two things at the same time so I'm not sure which item "cured" me but I no longer suffer that tightening when walking:
1) New walking shoes. My old shoes, good for casual walking, were no good for long treks through the mighty concrete jungle. I also learned that after every 500 - 800 miles of walking I need new shoes.
2) I started wearing compression socks for a circulatory problem. The compression socks have reduced the size of my right calf by almost 1.5 inches and a similar drop on my left calf. That excess fluid in my calfs was causing me issues.
I don't know which one did it, but I no longer have the soreness and, in some cases, cramping that I used to have.0 -
Run more often.What am I doing wrong or could I do different? Is there a way that I'm running improperly?0 -
That piqued my interest as a biology major (and someone who has heard soreness comes from lactic acid buildup), so I read up on it.
Dr. Brooks' thesis for his research (which was published in 1985, not 2006) was not on muscle soreness, but on fatigue/failure. He was challenging the coaches that said "Don't work too hard, your lactic acid will build up and then you won't be able to perform." He was challenging the idea that lactic acid buildup caused muscle failure in athletes, not the idea that it caused soreness in untrained athletes. It is a subtle, but distinct, difference. Following the rabbit hole, I found that even his studies identified that trained people were more efficient at utilizing lactic acid in muscles. This supports Dr. Brooks' hypothesis that it is a muscular fuel, but it does not refute that it contributes to DOMS in untrained people.
As for Dr. Gladden's claim, there have been experiments that measured elevated lactic levels in muscles several hours after workouts, and most researchers tend to agree that DOMS comes from a combination of unused lactic acid and an influx of lymphocytes and blood flow to repair tissue that the body is not used to having to repair.
So in summary: Don't just quote NYT articles. The journalist writing the article is giving you his interpretation of the results. In a scientific study, the details he may gloss over or the different diction he may use matters A LOT. Also, any journalist could find a guy with a PhD trying to push his research. What matters is if his methods are sound and if his results are able to be reproduced.
There just isn't any positive evidence that would anyone applying the scientific method to conclude lactic acid is related to DOMS, sorry. The mechanism has been sought after for years. It never materialized. Basically, you are saying "prove it isn't true", while having no evidence to back it in the first place. The ONLY evidence any one has is the past beliefs of others. Which isn't evidence at all.
You don't need me to post anything beyond the New York Times article. This info is all over the place. Go do some research and satisfy yourself.
This makes me think back and chuckle at advice I once got from a trainer to avoid milk. You know, because, lactic acid. He never mentioned sauerkraut or kimchi, both loaded with lactic acid.0 -
Hmm. Looks like I have a lot of reading up to do. Also berateing my chemistrye professors for perpetuation of old sscience if indeed I find these claims of lactate as fuel to be true.
Weird stuff gets taught in schools. I was a student in the 90's, and I was taught that gravity is a force of attraction between two bodies that have mass. Well over half a century after Einstein figured out Newton had to be wrong.0 -
Stretching is great, but the effects don't last long, so if you have chronically tight calves, i'd wear a night splint, to stretch the calves the entire time you sleep. Choose one that adjusts incrementally to angles smaller than 90 degrees, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Plantar-Fasciitis-Splint-Medium/dp/B006L8N71Y
I'd also wear shoes with a low heel (< 6 mm heel-to-toe drop). The low heel allows your calves to stretch farther each time your heel hits the ground, which relaxes the calves. Most shoes have a raised heel, which has the opposite effect.
It's good to transition to lower-heeled shoes cautiously, to avoid injuries.
This advice is totally false. Wearing shoes with a lower heel drop will hurt your calves more than help them. It is a known problem and you should be very careful if you are wearing these. I'm back to a 8mm drop and not having any problems.
I've run for close to 30 years and for the most part haven't had significant calf issues (once or twice) until I started running in Newtons and other lower heeled shoes. They killed my calves and I was out for 7 weeks after one injury. I threw those shoes away very quickly as have many others who have tried this.
Also, calf sleeves may look terrible, but they do help. Fortunately i've weaned myself off them but they do help and give you confidence and support.
Finally, deep massage will help. My calves are still very tight, but fortunately I am married to an LMT who takes care of me.0 -
I have always suffered from super tight soleus. I find that that once soleus is tight, it creates a domino effect with Achilles and Plantar Fascia. It has always manifested in a feeling that I was developing shin splints. Now that I know it is due to the bio dynamics of my body. What I do? Roller ball calves...achilles.....plantar fascia after exercise. I can stretch a bit when I am really warm--but stretching doesn't quite reach the deep muscles to help release them like the roller ball does. My 2 cents! HTH!0
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Although wearing a low drop (less than 6mm) is associated with greater calf pain if you go too fast, if you transition slowly they make such a difference. I started running in Feb and started having serious calf pain once I finished c25k and was moving up to 10k. My friend is a bare foot runner and kept nagging me about getting lower drop shoes because I was heel striking. I completely ignored her until I hobbled over the line of my 2nd 10k and went straight to see the sports Physio. They said my trainers had such a big drop that I had no choice but to heel strike and that was causing the pain. I bought some 4mm drop shoes and started running again from scratch, literally doing a km or less and really focusing on my form (mid-foot strike, feet underneath me, etc) and stretching routine after my run. I'm currently back up to 8k and am completely calf pain free.0
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I would incorporate more magnesium into your diet. Make sure you are meeting your calcium needs as well. Whenever hubby starts to cramp up, I make him take a 250mg magnesium supplement. Works like a charm.0
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Doing a quick search, there is general consensus that DOMS arises from a combination of unused lactic acid paired with an influx of auto-immune response to the area of muscle wear. You are correct that the exact micro-mechanism is unknown, and that is mostly because we don't have instruments that can objectively measure soreness and pain.There just isn't any positive evidence that would anyone applying the scientific method to conclude lactic acid is related to DOMS, sorry. The mechanism has been sought after for years. It never materialized. Basically, you are saying "prove it isn't true", while having no evidence to back it in the first place. The ONLY evidence any one has is the past beliefs of others. Which isn't evidence at all.
You don't need me to post anything beyond the New York Times article. This info is all over the place. Go do some research and satisfy yourself.
This makes me think back and chuckle at advice I once got from a trainer to avoid milk. You know, because, lactic acid. He never mentioned sauerkraut or kimchi, both loaded with lactic acid.
I'm not asking you to prove a negative; you posted that the general consensus was actually wrong and then cited what you thought was a study that refuted this claim when in fact, it did not.
The fact that you also think Einstein's work proves Newton's work to be 'wrong' demonstrates that you have no understanding of science whatsoever.0 -
(Face palm)0
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I find that stretching my calves before I run prevents a lot of the soreness. When I started c25k my calves were really tight and sore after every run. So now before running I stand on a step and dip my heels a few times, and I also do a lunge type thing around the house which looks ridiculous but definitely helps. Now I've finished c25k and my calves are always a-ok :drinker:0
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