Advice for a new vegan?

Aw, poor little animals feel pain as they're killed and eaten. Cue violins. That's nature, honey. And who says plants don't feel pain? Just because you can't empathize with faceless plants doesn't mean they don't feel "pain" after a fashion. And do you kill bugs that come in your house? Do you spray insecticides in your garden, or introduce ladybugs or other predators to control the bug population? Or does your empathy only extend to Chordata, Vertebrata, or Mammalia?

It's a little more than "poor little animals" feeling pain - yes, it's true, animals in nature do kill and eat each other. The lion on the plains runs down a gazelle, kills and eats it for survival. This is completely true.

However, the difference between the lion and the man is that the man has empathy. He has the ability to make decisions based on empathy and, knowing full well that he can not only survive but THRIVE on a plant-based diet, can CHOOSE not to kill needlessly and eat a vegan diet. The lion, however, is instinctively programmed to kill the gazelle for survival, and is not able to make the same decision that a person is. Ethical vegans are exercising this ability.

What other "reasons" are there? Unless you're allergic to meat, I can't see why anyone would do this on purpose. :huh: It's not "healthier" by any means, and it's not a better diet for weight loss. So if you leave out maudlin sentimentality as well, it doesn't really leave much in the way of rationale. But I'm curious, so do tell.

There are actually many reasons that someone might choose to go vegan that have nothing to do with sentimentality and the belief that animals inherently want to live, avoid pain, and do not want to die. People can also go vegan after learning about the sheer amount of resources and environmental stress that go into raising a single livestock animal for human consumption. They learn about how many people could be fed and cared for with those resources, or how much of an environmental impact they can make when they do not consume animals or animal products, and choose to lead a plant-based lifestyle.

With all due respect though, your responses do come off as awfully snarky and condescending. Please bear in mind when you respond that you began to post in a thread asking for advice for a new vegan.

What I don't understand is why people get so frustrated over others eating decisions, it's OK to discuss it but insulting is just childish. From both sides. Literally, who gives a hoot.

Aw, poor little animals feel pain as they're killed and eaten. Cue violins. That's nature, honey. And who says plants don't feel pain? Just because you can't empathize with faceless plants doesn't mean they don't feel "pain" after a fashion. And do you kill bugs that come in your house? Do you spray insecticides in your garden, or introduce ladybugs or other predators to control the bug population? Or does your empathy only extend to Chordata, Vertebrata, or Mammalia?

It's a little more than "poor little animals" feeling pain - yes, it's true, animals in nature do kill and eat each other. The lion on the plains runs down a gazelle, kills and eats it for survival. This is completely true.

However, the difference between the lion and the man is that the man has empathy. He has the ability to make decisions based on empathy and, knowing full well that he can not only survive but THRIVE on a plant-based diet, can CHOOSE not to kill needlessly and eat a vegan diet. The lion, however, is instinctively programmed to kill the gazelle for survival, and is not able to make the same decision that a person is. Ethical vegans are exercising this ability.

What other "reasons" are there? Unless you're allergic to meat, I can't see why anyone would do this on purpose. :huh: It's not "healthier" by any means, and it's not a better diet for weight loss. So if you leave out maudlin sentimentality as well, it doesn't really leave much in the way of rationale. But I'm curious, so do tell.

There are actually many reasons that someone might choose to go vegan that have nothing to do with sentimentality and the belief that animals inherently want to live, avoid pain, and do not want to die. People can also go vegan after learning about the sheer amount of resources and environmental stress that go into raising a single livestock animal for human consumption. They learn about how many people could be fed and cared for with those resources, or how much of an environmental impact they can make when they do not consume animals or animal products, and choose to lead a plant-based lifestyle.

With all due respect though, your responses do come off as awfully snarky and condescending. Please bear in mind when you respond that you began to post in a thread asking for advice for a new vegan.

I'm a carnivorous empathy-lacking predator, of course I'm snarky and condescending. On weekends I make coats out of Dalmatian puppies. :bigsmile:

Advice?...just don't....


And if Vegetarians/vegans care so much about animals...why do you eat their food?????


( Never be afraid of a vegan, they wont have the strength to argue back.)

:happy:

With all due respect, I could probably bench you. Any more cliches you'd like to add?

MEAT IS MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!


Tasty, succulent, delicious murder......


You did ask....

1) B12: Super easy: Nutritional yeast. I add it to all sorts of stuff.


3) Protein: Plants themselves have 4-7%, where do the cows get their protein? From plants, duh. Don't have time to explain the "complete" protein myth circulating out there, but rest assured, vegans don't need to worry



7) Iron: You'll also hear this a lot. That plant iron is "low quality". Wrong. In terms of absorption, animal-based (heme) iron does absorb faster/better, however when has that always meant better? Kind of like saying simple carbs are better than complex carbs... well don't they get pushed faster into your body? Iron and other heavy metals accumulate in the body and are more and more research is pointing to heavy metals being a root cause of everything from Alzheimer's to Parkinsons, so no, the more iron absorbed NOT better. Plant based (non-heme) iron is better suited for your body because your body has better regulating mechanisms for it. No harmful accumulation there. If you're at all worried about absorption, throw some citrus or strawberries in some green leafies to boost it.

8) Gosh, what else might you hear? Who in the world knows, if you have a question, just let me know though And no, not going to put a bibliography here to wrap everything up (for those of you that want me to cite each and every source for these "radical" claims. anyone can find these facts easily enough if they're interested)

So lets say there is no nutritional yeast or anything fortified. You would have no choice but to consume animal products.

Complete protein? lol? you think that the protein in the grass is the same as the protein from the cow? You obviously dont know that those animals synthesize those proteins

Calcium is useless without lysine

because vegetables and fruits do not accumulate heavy metals right? Most of your precious green leafy vegetables have heavy metals in there.
Iron? Lol, ok so you either get dementia or you become anemic.
Cause plant based iron is absorbed better? no, it isnt. best thing to recover from anemia is animal based iron.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20980658

post is complete garbage

I recommend you read the CHINA STUDY to give you lots of fuel to all those vegan haters out there and totally make you believe 100% in your lifestyle. You will never look back!

I always told people I didn't want to give my money to a industry that doesn't treat there workers fairly. Then someone always says, "I worked at a chicken plant and I was fine", or "My uncle owns a cow farm and treats his employees swell." To which I say,"Sigh, I wish it were like that for everyone." Then they mutter," Hippie."

Haters will be haters. You have to understand that if you were on the Paleo/Atkins bandwagon they could NEVER understand you giving up grains. Food effects people to the deepest core and people feel very threatened to see someone being so different from themselves for a variety of personal, political, and survival reasons. IT IS CRAZY!!!!

Go to places where you know the menu and can order spaghetti squash or been burrito sans cheese. I ALWAYS carry food in my purse when I go out in case I am stuck someplace that only has french fries. You can gain weight being vegan if you do chips and french fries/beer. That is what we don't' want!

1) What's the best way to tell other people if they do ask why I'm suddenly not eating meat or dairy?

2) What are the staples in your diet that you cannot live without?

3) What do you eat when you go out?

4) What has been your experience with veganism and weight loss?

Welcome back.
You've got some good pointers already for your thoughtful questions. I'm glad to see that. (Ignore the naysayers. You gotta do what's right for you.) Yes, you can be a healthy human without meat or diary. Here's my 2 cents -- take what you can use and leave the rest.

1) I don't say anything to anyone unless they ask. I keep it simple by saying I just don't eat meat anymore, that I do it for health reasons and that I feel better without it. I don't bring up ethical reasons unless asked directly about it. I don't apologize and I don't defend it to anyone. I just do what I feel is best for me.
2) Staples are whole fruits, raw/steamed vegetables, raw unsalted nuts and seeds, all kinds of legumes, and tofu.
3) For meals away from home, I do the best I can. I eat ahead of time. I bring my own food. I try to enjoy the event, the people rather than the food when possible.
4) It is entirely possible to be a fat, unhealthy vegetarian -- I was that kind of vegetarian. Do your homework. Buy yourself a copy of "Eat To Live" by Dr. Fuhrman, and get a copy of "Diet For A Small Planet" so you understand how to be a healthy vegetarian and know how to respond to difficult situations. Know why you are doing this. I have become a healthy, trim vegetarian with these two books. You can, too.

Best of luck to you.

So wait, you're going vegan because you think it's healthy? :huh:

Artificially restricting your diet to exclude an entire subgroup of nutrient sources your body evolved to utilize and having to bend over backwards to compensate for the lack of that nutrient source doesn't sound particularly "healthful" to me.

My advice to you is not to appeal to the general forum for advice about veganism, unless you are a masochist. lol...

I recommend you read the CHINA STUDY to give you lots of fuel to all those vegan haters out there and totally make you believe 100% in your lifestyle. You will never look back!

you do know that that was debunked (alot) right.... also no one hates vegans, or paleo, or any other food type, we just dont like "preachy fanatics" of any kind