Advice for a new vegan?
Replies
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Advice?...just don't....
And if Vegetarians/vegans care so much about animals...why do you eat their food?????
( Never be afraid of a vegan, they wont have the strength to argue back.)
:happy:0 -
Aw, poor little animals feel pain as they're killed and eaten. Cue violins. That's nature, honey. And who says plants don't feel pain? Just because you can't empathize with faceless plants doesn't mean they don't feel "pain" after a fashion. And do you kill bugs that come in your house? Do you spray insecticides in your garden, or introduce ladybugs or other predators to control the bug population? Or does your empathy only extend to Chordata, Vertebrata, or Mammalia?
It's a little more than "poor little animals" feeling pain - yes, it's true, animals in nature do kill and eat each other. The lion on the plains runs down a gazelle, kills and eats it for survival. This is completely true.
However, the difference between the lion and the man is that the man has empathy. He has the ability to make decisions based on empathy and, knowing full well that he can not only survive but THRIVE on a plant-based diet, can CHOOSE not to kill needlessly and eat a vegan diet. The lion, however, is instinctively programmed to kill the gazelle for survival, and is not able to make the same decision that a person is. Ethical vegans are exercising this ability.What other "reasons" are there? Unless you're allergic to meat, I can't see why anyone would do this on purpose. :huh: It's not "healthier" by any means, and it's not a better diet for weight loss. So if you leave out maudlin sentimentality as well, it doesn't really leave much in the way of rationale. But I'm curious, so do tell.
There are actually many reasons that someone might choose to go vegan that have nothing to do with sentimentality and the belief that animals inherently want to live, avoid pain, and do not want to die. People can also go vegan after learning about the sheer amount of resources and environmental stress that go into raising a single livestock animal for human consumption. They learn about how many people could be fed and cared for with those resources, or how much of an environmental impact they can make when they do not consume animals or animal products, and choose to lead a plant-based lifestyle.
With all due respect though, your responses do come off as awfully snarky and condescending. Please bear in mind when you respond that you began to post in a thread asking for advice for a new vegan.0 -
Advice?...just don't....
And if Vegetarians/vegans care so much about animals...why do you eat their food?????
( Never be afraid of a vegan, they wont have the strength to argue back.)
:happy:
With all due respect, I could probably bench you. Any more cliches you'd like to add?
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What I don't understand is why people get so frustrated over others eating decisions, it's OK to discuss it but insulting is just childish. From both sides. Literally, who gives a hoot.0
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Advice?...just don't....
And if Vegetarians/vegans care so much about animals...why do you eat their food?????
( Never be afraid of a vegan, they wont have the strength to argue back.)
:happy:
That sentiment apply to vegetarians as well?0 -
Aw, poor little animals feel pain as they're killed and eaten. Cue violins. That's nature, honey. And who says plants don't feel pain? Just because you can't empathize with faceless plants doesn't mean they don't feel "pain" after a fashion. And do you kill bugs that come in your house? Do you spray insecticides in your garden, or introduce ladybugs or other predators to control the bug population? Or does your empathy only extend to Chordata, Vertebrata, or Mammalia?
It's a little more than "poor little animals" feeling pain - yes, it's true, animals in nature do kill and eat each other. The lion on the plains runs down a gazelle, kills and eats it for survival. This is completely true.
However, the difference between the lion and the man is that the man has empathy. He has the ability to make decisions based on empathy and, knowing full well that he can not only survive but THRIVE on a plant-based diet, can CHOOSE not to kill needlessly and eat a vegan diet. The lion, however, is instinctively programmed to kill the gazelle for survival, and is not able to make the same decision that a person is. Ethical vegans are exercising this ability.What other "reasons" are there? Unless you're allergic to meat, I can't see why anyone would do this on purpose. :huh: It's not "healthier" by any means, and it's not a better diet for weight loss. So if you leave out maudlin sentimentality as well, it doesn't really leave much in the way of rationale. But I'm curious, so do tell.
There are actually many reasons that someone might choose to go vegan that have nothing to do with sentimentality and the belief that animals inherently want to live, avoid pain, and do not want to die. People can also go vegan after learning about the sheer amount of resources and environmental stress that go into raising a single livestock animal for human consumption. They learn about how many people could be fed and cared for with those resources, or how much of an environmental impact they can make when they do not consume animals or animal products, and choose to lead a plant-based lifestyle.
With all due respect though, your responses do come off as awfully snarky and condescending. Please bear in mind when you respond that you began to post in a thread asking for advice for a new vegan.
I'm a carnivorous empathy-lacking predator, of course I'm snarky and condescending. On weekends I make coats out of Dalmatian puppies. :bigsmile:0 -
Advice?...just don't....
And if Vegetarians/vegans care so much about animals...why do you eat their food?????
( Never be afraid of a vegan, they wont have the strength to argue back.)
:happy:
lol i know a vegan names Scott jurek that won the western states 100 race (ultramarathon) 7 times in row. and then he went on to win the Badwater ultra marathon, twice. pretty strong guy id say. lol.0 -
Advice?...just don't....
And if Vegetarians/vegans care so much about animals...why do you eat their food?????
( Never be afraid of a vegan, they wont have the strength to argue back.)
:happy:
With all due respect, I could probably bench you. Any more cliches you'd like to add?
MEAT IS MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!
Tasty, succulent, delicious murder......
You did ask....0 -
Most vegan food is high in sodium and fat. But what do I know?
Two of my favorite things!
I wouldn't say most vegan food is high in sodium and fat. You can find tons of convenience foods that are, but that's not exclusive to the vegan foods.
New vegans who want to connect for recipes, advice, and common ground should stick to groups. If you don't want to debate this topic, stay out of the main forums. 99% of the people on both sides aren't going to change their minds, and both sides will decide the other is smug, self-righteous, or *everyotherinsulthere* Pointless and often unpleasant. (Unless you like a good argument. Sometimes I do, but not on this topic.) (This isn't in reaction to anything on this particular thread, it's just the overall trend.)0 -
So lets say there is no nutritional yeast or anything fortified. You would have no choice but to consume animal products.
1) B12: Super easy: Nutritional yeast. I add it to all sorts of stuff.
3) Protein: Plants themselves have 4-7%, where do the cows get their protein? From plants, duh. Don't have time to explain the "complete" protein myth circulating out there, but rest assured, vegans don't need to worry
7) Iron: You'll also hear this a lot. That plant iron is "low quality". Wrong. In terms of absorption, animal-based (heme) iron does absorb faster/better, however when has that always meant better? Kind of like saying simple carbs are better than complex carbs... well don't they get pushed faster into your body? Iron and other heavy metals accumulate in the body and are more and more research is pointing to heavy metals being a root cause of everything from Alzheimer's to Parkinsons, so no, the more iron absorbed NOT better. Plant based (non-heme) iron is better suited for your body because your body has better regulating mechanisms for it. No harmful accumulation there. If you're at all worried about absorption, throw some citrus or strawberries in some green leafies to boost it.
8) Gosh, what else might you hear? Who in the world knows, if you have a question, just let me know though And no, not going to put a bibliography here to wrap everything up (for those of you that want me to cite each and every source for these "radical" claims. anyone can find these facts easily enough if they're interested)
Complete protein? lol? you think that the protein in the grass is the same as the protein from the cow? You obviously dont know that those animals synthesize those proteins
Calcium is useless without lysine
because vegetables and fruits do not accumulate heavy metals right? Most of your precious green leafy vegetables have heavy metals in there.
Iron? Lol, ok so you either get dementia or you become anemic.
Cause plant based iron is absorbed better? no, it isnt. best thing to recover from anemia is animal based iron.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20980658
post is complete garbage0 -
wow! what a read.
I am almost a vegan (Still eat the odd egg and a bit of cheese and butter, all measured.) , and I have been looking for vegan and veggie friends on here. I wish I could become a full time vegan.
Do lots of reading, I am forever reading, I take hemp protein when I can.
Dr mcDougall eating plan is what I try to follow. http://www.drmcdougall.com/about/dr-john-mcdougall/
I was eating way, and I mean way to much oil and too big serves for the energy going out.
My fitness pal has helped get a grip on how much I was not moving and overeating , even thou I juice a lot .
all the eating healthy wont help if your trying to lose weight with out exercise. You need the too to go together.
You will find your own groove.
To anyone please feel free to add me if you are vegan or veggiehead.0 -
I recommend you read the CHINA STUDY to give you lots of fuel to all those vegan haters out there and totally make you believe 100% in your lifestyle. You will never look back!
I always told people I didn't want to give my money to a industry that doesn't treat there workers fairly. Then someone always says, "I worked at a chicken plant and I was fine", or "My uncle owns a cow farm and treats his employees swell." To which I say,"Sigh, I wish it were like that for everyone." Then they mutter," Hippie."
Haters will be haters. You have to understand that if you were on the Paleo/Atkins bandwagon they could NEVER understand you giving up grains. Food effects people to the deepest core and people feel very threatened to see someone being so different from themselves for a variety of personal, political, and survival reasons. IT IS CRAZY!!!!
Go to places where you know the menu and can order spaghetti squash or been burrito sans cheese. I ALWAYS carry food in my purse when I go out in case I am stuck someplace that only has french fries. You can gain weight being vegan if you do chips and french fries/beer. That is what we don't' want!0 -
I recommend lots of green smoothies. I hate salad and with a green smoothie you can drink 4 cups of spinach and a cup of blueberries or other fruit and no calories from the dressing. So tasty. Throw in some avocado and flaxseed. Be creative. Smoothie kale with pineapple. Follow with some almonds or other nut butter on some wasa crackers. Hummus could become your best friend.0
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Welcome back.1) What's the best way to tell other people if they do ask why I'm suddenly not eating meat or dairy?
2) What are the staples in your diet that you cannot live without?
3) What do you eat when you go out?
4) What has been your experience with veganism and weight loss?
You've got some good pointers already for your thoughtful questions. I'm glad to see that. (Ignore the naysayers. You gotta do what's right for you.) Yes, you can be a healthy human without meat or diary. Here's my 2 cents -- take what you can use and leave the rest.
1) I don't say anything to anyone unless they ask. I keep it simple by saying I just don't eat meat anymore, that I do it for health reasons and that I feel better without it. I don't bring up ethical reasons unless asked directly about it. I don't apologize and I don't defend it to anyone. I just do what I feel is best for me.
2) Staples are whole fruits, raw/steamed vegetables, raw unsalted nuts and seeds, all kinds of legumes, and tofu.
3) For meals away from home, I do the best I can. I eat ahead of time. I bring my own food. I try to enjoy the event, the people rather than the food when possible.
4) It is entirely possible to be a fat, unhealthy vegetarian -- I was that kind of vegetarian. Do your homework. Buy yourself a copy of "Eat To Live" by Dr. Fuhrman, and get a copy of "Diet For A Small Planet" so you understand how to be a healthy vegetarian and know how to respond to difficult situations. Know why you are doing this. I have become a healthy, trim vegetarian with these two books. You can, too.
Best of luck to you.0 -
I also don't understand why anyone else cares what I eat or don't eat. On public forums like this, you just have to separate the wheat from the chaff and move on.What I don't understand is why people get so frustrated over others eating decisions, it's OK to discuss it but insulting is just childish. From both sides. Literally, who gives a hoot.0 -
So wait, you're going vegan because you think it's healthy? :huh:
Artificially restricting your diet to exclude an entire subgroup of nutrient sources your body evolved to utilize and having to bend over backwards to compensate for the lack of that nutrient source doesn't sound particularly "healthful" to me.
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Or the steak from the gristle. :devil:
I also don't understand why anyone else cares what I eat or don't eat. On public forums like this, you just have to separate the wheat from the chaff and move on.What I don't understand is why people get so frustrated over others eating decisions, it's OK to discuss it but insulting is just childish. From both sides. Literally, who gives a hoot.0 -
My advice to you is not to appeal to the general forum for advice about veganism, unless you are a masochist. lol...0
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You should probably do a lot of research on how to get proper nutrition without meat/poultry/fish/dairy/eggs/ect...you don't sound as if you actually know very much...being vegan doesn't mean you're auto "healthy"...in fact, it's far harder to actually get your proper nutrients if you don't know what you're doing. I'd suggest some major googling....maybe some books and other research. What you're giving up in RE to meat/poultry/fish/dairy/eggs, etc isn't "unhealthy' in and of itself...maybe you need to think about why you're actually doing what you're doing.
It can be a very healthy lifestyle, but you have to pay far more attention to what you're doing to actually get proper nutrients.
I am vegan. It wasn't an overnight transition for me.
I totally agree with the above poster. Vegan does not equate to health. You can sit eating bread, white pastas and french fries all day. You won't necessarily lose weight. And you definitely need to know what you are doing in order to get balanced meals.
As far as staples are concerned, I eat a lot of beans, lentils, tofu, nuts and seeds. I do use the processed foods in moderation, but not frequently (or at least I try not to)!
I grow almost all of my own produce (unless of course it isn't in season and I really really want it) and so I consume lots of salad specifically kale and other cabbages since they are in season right now.
I actually didn't lose weight at all at first. I gained! I wasn't educated and went towards the wrong things like breads, rice, pasta. The majority of your calories should come directly from the plant to your mouth. You actually have to eat higher volume than you're probably used to in order to get adequate calories.
And I am not convinced humans are meant to be herbivores, in fact biologically I believe we are omnivores. But think "grubs and bugs" not cows and chickens.
And if you really think vegan's are all weak, pale, malnourished hungry skeletons, watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbEUHCU_GtM 0 -
I recommend you read the CHINA STUDY to give you lots of fuel to all those vegan haters out there and totally make you believe 100% in your lifestyle. You will never look back!
you do know that that was debunked (alot) right.... also no one hates vegans, or paleo, or any other food type, we just dont like "preachy fanatics" of any kind0 -
I have been veggie for about 2 1/2 years, so not full vegan, so I can respect your decision and understand how tough it can be, not only physically but mentally as well.
First off, not sure if you are an athlete or not, but regardless, there are plenty of great male role models out there who are at least vegetarian:
1) Hershel Walker
2) The entire Gracie family (inventors of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and founders of the UFC).
3) Mike Mahler (the premier kettlebell instructor in the US) is full on vegan, and is built like a truck.
4) Roman gladiators were often cited as being vegetarian, as they ate so much barley, and were known as the "barley men."
5) There are mixed accounts as to whether the Roman legions were vegetarians or not.
Scooby is a vegetarian bodybuilder and Triathlete, and the guy's physique speaks for itself:
http://scoobysworkshop.com/vegetarianism/
As far as other people go, I have been really lucky. Most everyone around me has been overwhelmingly supportive. When asked about it, I just tell them it was a half ethical and half health decision, and usually leave it at that. They are more curious than critical, so if they want to ask more questions I will answer them.
Whoever said it was a good way to weed people out, gave good advice. You don't want people around you belittling your choices about anything, so you don't need to apologize for your choice or feel less about yourself when you get haters. I think I had one person who gave me a hard time about it. But that person gives everyone a hard time about everything.
Finally, I take a live and let live attitude. I don't judge meat eaters, it's a decision I made for myself, so I don't blast my opinions onto them, and I let them eat whatever they want or don't pay attention to what they are doing or hold myself in a superior place to them. Most of them go out of their way to accommodate me, but I tell them since I am the odd one out, it's always my job to accommodate them, not the other way around.
Tips:
1) Get a crock pot. You can cook up all kinds of beans and lentils in it and veggies. Just cut stuff up and dump it in and let it cook.
2) Get a rice cooker, you can also steam up some quinoa and veggies in it as well.
3) Subway has a veggie patty. It's usually not on the menu, so just ask for it. It will fill you up more than the veggie delight, and has protein sources in it.
4) Find an Indian restaurant. Almost always great veggie dishes there.
5) Not sure where you live but most Mexican chains have a veggie burrito or veggie bowl type option. Like Chipotle has Sofritas (tofu) and Rubio's has a veggie burrito or a couple of salad bowls.
6) Corner Bakery and Panera Bread also have some great veggie options
Here's a nice recipe to get started that's easy:
http://jugalbandi.info/2007/02/13-bean-11-veggie-soup/
This is also a great cookbook for vegans, very tasty stuff in here, and meals are designed to be easy.
http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fix-Vegan-Healthy-Homestyle-Minutes/dp/1449407854/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384930276&sr=8-3&keywords=vegan+cookbook0 -
Good for you! I'm a 7 year vegan, was lacto ovo vegetarian for 6 years prior to that. You won't regret it, trust me Please don't listen to nutritionally low IQ people on this forum who say it's not a healthy way to live. There is such an overwhelming amount of research that has been done w/in even the last 5-10 years that truly makes plant-based nutrition the optimal human diet, not to mention for such a wide array of other reasons: Efficiency, Economics, Compassion, Planet. NOT being vegan is actually extremely strange once someone knows about all of these aspects.
Thing is, all the credible research out there does NOT show that a fully vegan diet is the best way to eat for optimal health. A while back I became very interested in a whole foods, plant based diet for the health benefits. However, after spending hundreds of hours researching this way of eating and how it relates to health-I came to the conclusion that it's just not necessary to go that strict and cut out entire food groups. Even vegan advocates like Dr. Fuhrman and Gina Messina (author of Vegan For Her) acknowledge that the most recent studies do not show that totally eliminating meat and dairy do anything more beneficial than focusing on a diet that's mostly a whole foods, plant based diet but still includes meat and dairy in small amounts. Dr. Furhmnan himself recommends a 90/10 format.
OP-here's a great article by Alex Jamieson-
http://alexandrajamieson.com/im-not-vegan-anymore/
And here's a blog post from a former vegan, who had to stop due to the health issues she was having from her diet. I found this article during my research and that led me to finding many more blog posts, articles etc from former vegans who had to stop, due to the health problems they began having.
http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=17280510 -
I recommend you read the CHINA STUDY to give you lots of fuel to all those vegan haters out there and totally make you believe 100% in your lifestyle. You will never look back!
the China study actually DATA goes against he is saying. Cancer and non communicable diseases are overall higher in the plant eaters.
it should be marked as "Dr. Campbell's opinion"0 -
My advice to you is not to appeal to the general forum for advice about veganism
+10 -
To each their own...but animals are tasty...
I just can't personally not consume animal products..I'm a huge fan of cheese, eggs, and meat, and I seem to being doing just fine on my diet....0 -
Sounds logical.My advice to you is not to appeal to the general forum for advice about veganism
+10 -
I follow a majorly vegan diet and when I do not want to eat meat this website is my bible:
http://www.foodfacts.com/index.php
It tells you what is in the food you eat and even lets you know what is hidden in certain ingredients (did you know that sazon was made with fish derivatives?!)0 -
So lets say there is no nutritional yeast or anything fortified. You would have no choice but to consume animal products.
Complete protein? lol? you think that the protein in the grass is the same as the protein from the cow? You obviously dont know that those animals synthesize those proteins
If there was nothing fortified, we'd likely not have the other advances we have, so we'd be getting our B-12 the same way the animals do-from the ground. B-12 doesn't naturally occur in animals, it comes from bacteria.
I think she meant that while most plant foods are not complete proteins, as long as vegans eat a variety throughout the day, they are no longer told they need to eat rice and beans in the same meal, for instance.
I'm not vegan for health benefits, and I don't think a vegan diet is better for health, but these points are often used to tell vegans why what they are doing can't be healthy or natural when it's just not true.0 -
Most vegan food is high in sodium and fat. But what do I know?
Like vegetables? :laugh:0 -
OP - Join the "Happy Herbivores" group on MFP. You will be surrounded by like-minded people. Even though you have posted a legitimate question on a "Food and Nutrition" forum, past experience of MFP shows that meat eaters love a vegan thread :laugh:
Here ya go http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/45-happy-herbivores
Good luck! :flowerforyou:0
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