2000 calorie daily deficit?

longtimeterp
longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Was hoping for some thoughts on running a daily deficit of around 2000 calories for a few weeks before a Christmas vacation. i still plan on eating anywhere from 2000-3000 calories a day, and keeping my protein intake at least 1.5g/lb/lbm while lifting every other day.

and yes i've heard of the magical 30cal/lb/fat supposed maximum loss detailed in a study but that's only one study i'm aware of, and ive also read a few refutations of that number...but i'm hoping someone has some actual experience with this and it's effects or effectiveness (other than feeling a little more tired than usual)
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Replies

  • malimisko
    malimisko Posts: 17 Member
    I am doing it right now. My BMR is about 2500 and I add around 1000 with exercise. Have been eating only 1000 calories of non-processed non-starchy veggies and meat. So I have a deficit of 2500 per day. Scale is pretty much inline with that - Initial loss was much quicker due to water loss but after two weeks it is about 5 lb / week. If you go with 2000 deficit you should lose 4lb/week.
  • GingerLolita
    GingerLolita Posts: 738 Member
    How can you eat 2000-3000 calories with a 2000 calorie deficit? Your TDEE must be around 4000-5000, which is ridiculously high. Generally, a calorie deficit under 1000 isn't considered safe, unless you're doing this with consent and supervision of a doctor or nutritionist. I'd be very surprised if you got all your nutrients in and kept your energy up at this extreme deficit.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    You're talking about doing 2000 calories worth of exercise a day - every day - while running a 50% caloric deficit. That's roughly the equivalent of a 200 pound person running - not walking, running - 15 miles a day - every day.

    That's going to be impossible. You will blow your your intramuscular fat and your glycogen in no time, you won't have the intake to replenish them, and your running will come to a screeching halt because the body cannot metabolize fat stores fast enough to support the activity of running.

    You could delay the onset of this, potentially, through precisely timed eating. But that's just going to forestall the inevitable.

    The way out of this trap is to keep your deficit as a reasonable percentage of TDEE, but that would mean running 30 miles a day, every day. Alternately, if you are very very heavy and have sufficient time, you could replace running with walking. But now we're talking about walking about 8 hours a day - it would be a full time commitment.
  • Mr_Excitement
    Mr_Excitement Posts: 833 Member
    I can't imagine doing a 2000 calorie workout every day-- and if I did, there's no way in hell I could keep my food intake at 2000-3000 calories.

    That sounds like a recipe for injury to me.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    That sounds like a recipe for injury to me.

    My thoughts exactly.

    No quick fixes.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
    You're talking about doing 2000 calories worth of exercise a day - every day - while running a 50% caloric deficit. That's roughly the equivalent of a 200 pound person running - not walking, running - 15 miles a day - every day.
    yeah about 5mph for 3 hrs gets me pretty close to that according to a HRM
    That's going to be impossible. You will blow your your intramuscular fat and your glycogen in no time, you won't have the intake to replenish them, and your running will come to a screeching halt because the body cannot metabolize fat stores fast enough to support the activity of running.
    i have only recently heard of intramuscular fat, as i had previously though muscle was muscle and fat was fat. and i had an experience with this "halt" on a fasted run once i hit mile 12, i had to walk the last two and i was not feeling well for like 2 days, but it was my first run in like 6 weeks, which is what i attributed the crash to
    You could delay the onset of this, potentially, through precisely timed eating. But that's just going to forestall the inevitable.
    i do think nutrient timing matters, i try to do no more than an hour fasted at a low intensity and i've been making sure to take in both carbs and protein every 45-60 min when doing longer sessions. i've also done 16:8 and 20:4 i.f. but i figure with a larger deficit as im trying to use now, i am thinking timing many meals around exercise might work
    The way out of this trap is to keep your deficit as a reasonable percentage of TDEE, but that would mean running 30 miles a day, every day. Alternately, if you are very very heavy and have sufficient time, you could replace running with walking. But now we're talking about walking about 8 hours a day - it would be a full time commitment.
    so say 30% deficit would mean i would have to up my tdee to 6000 for the 2000...maybe 4500 with a 1500 deficit is more reasonable?
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
    I can't imagine doing a 2000 calorie workout every day-- and if I did, there's no way in hell I could keep my food intake at 2000-3000 calories.

    That sounds like a recipe for injury to me.

    i'm actually splitting up the workouts so its around 1000 in the am and another 1000 in the pm to make up the deficit
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
    How can you eat 2000-3000 calories with a 2000 calorie deficit? Your TDEE must be around 4000-5000, which is ridiculously high. Generally, a calorie deficit under 1000 isn't considered safe, unless you're doing this with consent and supervision of a doctor or nutritionist. I'd be very surprised if you got all your nutrients in and kept your energy up at this extreme deficit.

    well in the last few months my tdee has been 3500-3800 on average, and that is not taking into account my fitbit can't factor in extra energy expended during weight training, lvl 20 elliptical resistance, and 5-12% incline on the treadmill so 4000+ isnt a stretch, and im trying to add in roughly 60-90 min of additional cardio over the next two weeks
  • nomeejerome
    nomeejerome Posts: 2,616 Member
    OP:
    Why?
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    You're talking about doing 2000 calories worth of exercise a day - every day - while running a 50% caloric deficit. That's roughly the equivalent of a 200 pound person running - not walking, running - 15 miles a day - every day.
    yeah about 5mph for 3 hrs gets me pretty close to that according to a HRM


    Over training and under eating. This sounds like you want to start burning through lean mass. Why not just be reasonable and enjoy one or two days for the holiday without stressing? Even taking 6 days off is less than 2% of the year.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
    OP:
    Why?

    just trying for a kickstart before a holiday vacation, as i always gain on these trips...figure i can go back to bulking after i see friends and family
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    How can you eat 2000-3000 calories with a 2000 calorie deficit? Your TDEE must be around 4000-5000, which is ridiculously high. Generally, a calorie deficit under 1000 isn't considered safe, unless you're doing this with consent and supervision of a doctor or nutritionist. I'd be very surprised if you got all your nutrients in and kept your energy up at this extreme deficit.

    well in the last few months my tdee has been 3500-3800 on average, and that is not taking into account my fitbit can't factor in extra energy expended during weight training, lvl 20 elliptical resistance, and 5-12% incline on the treadmill so 4000+ isnt a stretch, and im trying to add in roughly 60-90 min of additional cardio over the next two weeks

    Did you know when it comes to cardio anything over 60-70 minutes per day is likely counterproductive, especially if you aren't consuming enough protein or calories to support the daily caloric expenditure. In order to build or maintain muscle, you need to eat enough food.

    Testosterone drops, cortisol increases and you end up in a catabolic state (you start burning lean mass, which in return drops your TDEE).

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/what-defines-cardio-in-terms-of-too-much-qa.html
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/too-much-cardio-followup.html
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
    Over training and under eating. This sounds like you want to start burning through lean mass. Why not just be reasonable and enjoy one or two days for the holiday without stressing? Even taking 6 days off is less than 2% of the year.

    i'm hoping adequate protein coupled with every other day lifting will help save lbm...and im okay with losing some i gain pretty easily...who knew i was a mesomorph, i had always assumed ecto since i was sooo fat
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    Without going into too many personal details, there is a place where what you are asking about is actually (and routinely) done - Ranger School. It's 8 weeks of sheer hell, where daily intake is kept to about 2200 calories and daily burn kept over 4000 calories. So what happens to these guys?

    Short version - they get fried to a crisp. :) Drop out rates are staggering. Guys actually spend a couple of months fattening up ahead of time, to increase chances of getting through. And everybody loses lean body mass in the process.

    But it is doable. And everyone does come out lean. :) Google will take you to all kinds of non-MFP discussions about the ins and out and harsh realities.

    I do think that it is possible to carry larger deficits than people on MFP typically think are safe, for those who can pay attention to details. And I should have never used the word "impossible". :smile:

    Cheers, and good luck!
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    Good way to lose a pound or three of muscle mass for no reason.

    Trust me: you don't want to do this. Putting that muscle back on is a million times harder than losing it crash dieting.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 614 Member
    okay okay, as opposed to a straight calorie number, if i shoot for 30% deficit is this a better approach?

    and i'm having an extra protein bar right now!
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    okay okay, i'll keep my deficit to around 1500 and my tdee around 4500...is this more reasonable?

    Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with such large calorie deficits. I don't recommend it.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    BTW, the whole ecto/meso/endo thing is a total sham. Literally a bunch of BS cooked up by a psychologist in the 50s who spent thousands of hours looking at pictures of naked college students trying to classify them.
  • nomeejerome
    nomeejerome Posts: 2,616 Member
    OP:
    Why?

    just trying for a kickstart before a holiday vacation, as i always gain on these trips...figure i can go back to bulking after i see friends and family

    Silly reason.
    Silly approach.
  • Hauntinglyfit
    Hauntinglyfit Posts: 5,537 Member
    I am so hungry. Help me.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Does not sound like a great plan to me. That is a lot of stress on the body for not a lot of positive.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    I am so hungry. Help me.

    This will be the title of one of his future threads.
  • SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish
    SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish Posts: 831 Member
    I've done a similarly fast loss before, lost 10lbs in one week, my deficit was all by exercise, over 3k cals/day, weights and elliptical every day with hiking/swimming/biking thrown in as well. I just wanted to see how fast I could lose for a competition, and though I did it, it was really tough by the end, and I ended up gaining it all back pretty fast and then some. I actually didn't lose strength, but this was because I was already lifting heavy and I didnt do it for long and lifted daily. However even with lifting daily I still wouldn't recommend it, I was tired, irritable and it all came back relatively quickly.
  • Ophidion
    Ophidion Posts: 2,065 Member
    This would be a more sensible way to lose weight...
    JJnXhns.jpg

    OP seriously set a reasonable deficit and exercise plan before you um die!

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html
  • fushigi1988
    fushigi1988 Posts: 519 Member
    200-500 deficit of TDEE is what is usually recommended, you are making a WAY too big gap. You will lose muscle an starve yourself. Please don't do this.
  • fushigi1988
    fushigi1988 Posts: 519 Member
    OP:
    Why?

    just trying for a kickstart before a holiday vacation, as i always gain on these trips...figure i can go back to bulking after i see friends and family

    I think your friends and family would rather see you healthy, and alive..
    The only reason you gain weight on these trips is because you are so scared of gaining weights on these trips.
    You obsess, you restrict (as is obvious from this topic), and by the time the trip comes, it will be 'omg, must eat all food', and you will binge and feel horrible.

    Just act normal, do your regular workouts now, stay in a healthy calorie range with maybe a small deficit, and have fun on the trip.
    If you eat normally there, without stress, and take some walks and stuff, othing will happen.
  • debrag12
    debrag12 Posts: 1,071 Member
    I am doing it right now. My BMR is about 2500 and I add around 1000 with exercise. Have been eating only 1000 calories of non-processed non-starchy veggies and meat. So I have a deficit of 2500 per day. Scale is pretty much inline with that - Initial loss was much quicker due to water loss but after two weeks it is about 5 lb / week. If you go with 2000 deficit you should lose 4lb/week.

    I didn't think you included your BMR in your deficit. Or am I reading this post wrong?
  • IronPhyllida
    IronPhyllida Posts: 533 Member
    I can't imagine doing a 2000 calorie workout every day-- and if I did, there's no way in hell I could keep my food intake at 2000-3000 calories.

    That sounds like a recipe for injury to me.
    I don't think it's too hard to do it, lets say, for 5 days or 7 days max... Then you'd need a rest day. It's equivalent to possibly two gym sessions, one in the morning and one in the evening.
    But think it would be hard to maintain.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    What's the huge rush?

    I get that the holidays stress people out in terms of weight loss, but you're just going to make yourself even more stressed trying to do this. Putting a deadline on weight loss seems like a great way to make yourself crazy.

    My personal experience is that too large a deficit leads to severe cravings and needing to eat everything in sight. I think that a month of running an extreme deficit followed by a few days of being around all that holiday food is a recipe for disaster. And that's in addition to all the other side effects of under-eating. I also worry about injury.

    Be patient. Eat a reasonable amount. Lift weights and eat enough to retain your LBM. And be patient.
  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
    Intramuscular fat:

    3223312899_8ee3cffe91.jpg

    Obvious when you think about it. :-)

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