Raw eggs... safe or not?

Options
SheFoxyLady
SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
in Food and Nutrition
I've been planning to make a chocolate mousse 'cake' (Marquise au chocolat to be exact - similar to the one of David Lebovitz if any one desires to learn more about it davidlebovitz.com/2010/10/french-chocolate-mousse-cake-recipe/ ) for a christmas family reunion, which will be attended by people ranging from the age of 6 to 72. The basic recipe is similar to the one of a chocolate mousse omitting the yolks: however, a certain period has to elapse before consumption of the final product. Like... 3 days. This waiting period ultimately results in an absolutely incredible texture (the texture isn't bad at all a day after, but it truly is excellent 3 days later).

I know the risks of 'raw eggs' and have read a series of debates upon them - I know it is preferable to use fresh ones, which I plan on doing, and to avoid excessive handling or washing (yes) as it could disintegrate a pre-existing protection 'barrier'.

Should I take the risk to serve whipped raw eggs that have been mixed with burning chocolate (does it actually cook them?) to my company or is it preferable to sacrifice a bit of texture and to serve it a day later? Again, I need to insist about their ages, despite the fact that they all have an excellent health...
«1

Replies

  • SheFoxyLady
    SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
    Options
    I mean, I talked with the concerned parties and they told me that they would prefer to have me doing it a day before instead of three (which I totally understand. It would be quite a pity to be sick on Christmas :/). But in itself, is there any kind of harm to eat raw eggs that have been separated from the shell a couple of days later?
  • cfredz
    cfredz Posts: 292 Member
    Options
    arent there raw eggs in egg nog? i think its safe
  • micheleb15
    micheleb15 Posts: 1,418 Member
    Options
    I would eat raw cookie dough and cake batter by the bowlful, but that's my decision and doesn't effect others. I don't really understand the issue with the days - it's going to be in the fridge all three days right? Most salmonella comes from the outside of the egg, so make sure to wash them well and use care when handling,

    Also, you have to temper the chocolate and eggs - if you cook them you did it wrong and no one wants scrambled eggs in their mousse.

    Edited: The eggs sit out for three days or the mousse needs to sit for three days? I guess that is where I am confused.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    Options
    They're not 100% safe. The chocolate will not reliably bring the eggs to a safe temperature.

    It's like a lot of food poisoning issues. The likelihood of disease-causing contamination is low. Even lower if you're talking about severe food poisoning (anything beyond a couple of hours of unpleasantness). You need bacterial contamination + time to grow at storage temperature to get a culture (or toxic growth products) that can overcome the individual's immune system. That's why it's more common with the elderly, children, and immune compromised.

    Storing the cake for three days, even in the fridge, before serving is a risk. One I would take for myself, and wouldn't have a problem with most of the time. But, you're hitting 2 of the risk factors - relative long storage time, plus elderly guests. I'd sacrifice the cake texture and be safe(r).

    ETA - Another option is buying pasteurized shell eggs. With those, I would feel comfortable following the recipe as written. Just be super careful with washing your hands, not touching your hair or skin that you didn't just wash and then touching the food, etc.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
    Options
    I've made mousse and mousse cake for eons without a problem. Most of the bacteria would be found on the shell, it is possible to have an infected yolk or white, but the probability of that is miniscule. I suggest that you coddle the egg in a temp of at least 140 but 160 is best for a half a minute. This kills the bacteria on the shell but doesn't effect the viscosity of the inside.
  • SheFoxyLady
    SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
    Options
    Micheleb: the 'mousse' remains in the fridge for three days, no worries :). I have already tested the recipe several times on myself and to be honest, have never found myself ill after...
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    Options
    Keep in mind that, for eggs, "fresh from the store" is a LOT different than "fresh from the farm".
  • SheFoxyLady
    SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
    Options
    Thanks for both other answers! I'll try the coddling technique and will talk to the other guests before once again~
  • SheFoxyLady
    SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
    Options
    MrKnight- I know, 'fresh from the store' eggs could already have sat in a local for several weeks prior to selling... and anyway, the eggs of the nearest farm actually wind up tasting better :tongue:
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
    Options
    its a risk, but unless you are giving it to children, elderly, or immunocompromised, I'd be OK with taking the risk. They make pasteurized eggs, but I find them very difficult to whip.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Options
    safe if fresh.
  • SheFoxyLady
    SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
    Options
    Would locally produced, fresh eggs actually be safer?
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,017 Member
    Options
    Would locally produced, fresh eggs actually be safer?
    That's all I ever use. Make sure all the blood and feathers are cleaned off..:tongue: No seriously, do clean them regardless and if your eating raw, just coddle them to be safer.
  • SheFoxyLady
    SheFoxyLady Posts: 24
    Options
    Would locally produced, fresh eggs actually be safer?
    That's all I ever use. Make sure all the blood and feathers are cleaned off..:tongue: No seriously, do clean them regardless and if your eating raw, just coddle them to be safer.

    No worries, bloodclot gelee hasn't been on my program :laugh:
    I'll do then, let's just hope it'll alleviate their worries. If not, oh well, I'll sacrifice texture...
  • jclist1
    jclist1 Posts: 87 Member
    Options
    My wife makes a killer French Silk Pie which uses raw eggs, and she only uses fresh eggs from a friend's farm, and I know what I am eating and risking. Serving it to company is always an iffy thing, but I would venture to safe that if the eggs are farm fresh and cleaned you should be okay.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    Options
    I believe there is a chance of food poisoning although unlikely.

    I have been told (although I'm sure this isn't reliable) that salmonella is only in the yolk of affected eggs.


    ETA: I had that mixed up. 1 in 20,000 eggs will be contaminated with salmonella, and it's usually in the whites.

    Although I would add keeping it at proper temp for other bacteria is probably more important.
  • elmr34
    elmr34 Posts: 32 Member
    Options
    For adults I wouldn't hesitate but for children I might err on the side of caution. I bake a lot and especially make a lot of royal icing which is basically raw egg whites and milk (and then sits unrefrigerated for days). However, nowadays most people make royal icing with MERINGUE powder (or dried egg whites) and water- because that way there is no chance of salmonella from the raw egg whites!

    Another option is to use pasteurized egg whites (like the kind that come in a bottle next to the eggs in the store).

    If you are looking for dried egg whites or meringue powder (they are basically the same thing) you can find them in the baking aisle. There are instructions on the back about how much egg white and water can be used to replace egg whites. These can be used in souffles, to make marshmallows, or wherever you need that ultra-fluffy thing you get from egg whites!

    Just to be clear- When I am cooking for myself I eat raw eggs (and raw fish, and undercooked meat) all the time (and have never had food poisoning from these things) but if I am cooking something that will be served to a child, an elderly person, or anyone with cancer, diabetes, etc. I like to be sure that they aren't going to get sick.
  • firstsip
    firstsip Posts: 8,399 Member
    Options
    I'll have to find a source (outside of doctors AND vets I've talked to), but you're almost as likely to get struck by lightning as to get salmonella from raw eggs. Raw chicken? Definitely playing roulette. Raw eggs? It's something like 10,000 to 1 chance you'll get food poisoning.

    A cursory search revealed equally biased sources: a site called "safe eggs" claiming raw eggs is responsible for most salmonella outbreaks in the US (immensely questionable, particularly when the "DON'T EAT RAW EGGS" claim has been beaten into people's heads; someone might be more likely to suspect they didn't cook their egg long enough over possible contamination of another "safe" product).

    On the other hand, Mercola said 30,000 to 1 odds you'd even get it... and it's Mercola.

    So I'm just going to walk away now. But I've had raw eggs in various forms and never gotten food poisoning, if it helps, and I actually am more susceptible to food-borne illness. WALK ON THE WILD SIDE.
  • callie006
    callie006 Posts: 151 Member
    Options
    They're not 100% safe. The chocolate will not reliably bring the eggs to a safe temperature.

    It's like a lot of food poisoning issues. The likelihood of disease-causing contamination is low. Even lower if you're talking about severe food poisoning (anything beyond a couple of hours of unpleasantness). You need bacterial contamination + time to grow at storage temperature to get a culture (or toxic growth products) that can overcome the individual's immune system. That's why it's more common with the elderly, children, and immune compromised.

    Storing the cake for three days, even in the fridge, before serving is a risk. One I would take for myself, and wouldn't have a problem with most of the time. But, you're hitting 2 of the risk factors - relative long storage time, plus elderly guests. I'd sacrifice the cake texture and be safe(r).

    ETA - Another option is buying pasteurized shell eggs. With those, I would feel comfortable following the recipe as written. Just be super careful with washing your hands, not touching your hair or skin that you didn't just wash and then touching the food, etc.

    This is excellent advice. While I wouldn't have an issue eating it if it were prepared by someone I trusted, I wouldn't feed it to young kids or older people because the potential consequences, even if highly unlikely, are potentially more severe to those in these groups.
  • Docpremie
    Docpremie Posts: 228 Member
    Options
    I use Egg Beaters in my egg nog, because they are pasteurized. I don't know why you couldn't do the same with this recipe, but I'd try it beforehand.

Categories