theres a huge misconception about obese tdee

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iballin
iballin Posts: 21
in Health and Weight Loss
Not saying they didn't eat in a surplus to gain there weight, but people dont realize the most accurate way aside from trial and error to figure out someones TDEE is not using the calculator based on height and weight only, but BODYFAT percent , a 330 lb male who is 50% body fat there maintain calories is actually 2700 exercising 3x a week, and i know from experience this is far more accurate then going the other way and it saying 4300 is the same weights tdee, totally wrong. i did the math and based on 2700 being my tdee and me eating 2000 calories, ive lost pretty much exactly pound for based on the 3500 calorie deficit, and i have no metabolic issues. take someone who is less bodyfat and 220 lbs and they require more calories, fat doesn't take much to survive on the body other then x amount of calories where as muscle take alot more, it just bothers me when someone will post there obese and there eating 2000 calories and ppl say woahhhh way to little calories for someone 330 lbs, well not at all if there 50 percent pure body fat, there tdee isnt very much to hold onto that fat.

Replies

  • bellevie86
    bellevie86 Posts: 301 Member
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    Yes, this is why some people use Methods that take into account body fat % Your muscles are 3 times more effective at burning calories than fat is. So this makes sense. But 2700 seems low and 4300 seems too too high, so maybe start somewhere in between and experiment?
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
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    There are a lot of factors that determine TDEE, so yes there is a lot of room for error. Only way to know for sure is via trial-and-error.

    Having said that, the average male at 330lbs and exercising 3x a week probably averages around 3500 TDEE. 2700 is very, very low.

    This pans out with my own experiences. When I was 300lbs, I lost 2lbs a week EASILY by eating 2000 calories a day with NO exercise (or just a little walking). My TDEE was probably 3000-3250. My bodyfat was around 45%.

    Now that I'm 200lbs, my TDEE is right around 3000 calories a day WITH exercise.

    So to say that a 330lb male who exercises 3x a week has a 2700 TDEE...is very very unlikely - barring medical issues of course. There are much lighter women here who have TDEEs that high.
  • iballin
    iballin Posts: 21
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    2700 seems accurate for a 50% bodyfat 5,8 male, imo, every calculator that uses bodyfat percent is saying the same. and by exercise i meant lifting weights , not cardio, so 2700 no cardio seems right to maintain imo, ppl dont relies when theyre obese there generally always gaining weight weather its slowed down and they just think theyre maintaining at 3500 but there gaining, threw m trial and error 2700 has made very happy because i was wondering why i was losing so little at 2000 thinking 3500-4000 was my maintenance but really based on the best obese formula thats including bodyfat percent, 2700 sounds right and mathematically adds up right based on what ive been losing per week at 2000 calories. body fat doesnt take as much calories to maintain as people assume, in my experience i can say that using this formula is very accurate,



    Katch-McArdle Formula
    The Katch-McArdle formula differs from the Harris-Benedict formula in that Katch-McArdle takes lean body mass into consideration. This calculation is therefore only possible if you know your percentage body fat.

    Generally speaking, this is a better measure of caloric need for the obese than Harris-Benedict because it represents your actual body composition and is not based of assumptions about what one "should" weigh.
  • iballin
    iballin Posts: 21
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    its not unlikely because i have no medical issues and my TDEE with lifting weights 3-4x a week is around 2700, people undershoot there bodyfat percent and think they have a little less then they do , but 170 pounds of lean body mass is a very muscular 5,8 male.. so to say 330 at 50-55 percent body fat would need 3500 to maintain is overshooting, i can say from personal experience my tdee is 2700-3000 maximum with strength training, people think high bodyfat takes high calories to maintain it really doesnt. its actually funny when you think about it, if someone with 50 percent body fat started trying to eat what say phil heath the bodybuilder eats everyday, they would actually gain weight lol, the famous misconception you can eat as much clean food as you want and not gain is funny to
  • iballin
    iballin Posts: 21
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    at the rate your saying that means your tdee was 3000, 2 lbs a week is 1000 calories a day, so at 2000 calories, your tdee was 3000 not much of a difference from 2700 , and lets not forget certain ppl are going to have abit better metabolic rates, so to say 2700 is way to low is stretching, but i se where your coming from

    edit you said your tdee was 3000 my bad, gota relise just lifting weights 3x a week isnt going to burn much calories, its the muscle its building that burns calories in the future, your little bit of walking could easyly out burn my strength training in the way of calories burned per day
  • RoyBeck
    RoyBeck Posts: 947 Member
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    Out of interest what do you think mine would be? 210, 30% BF, 5ft10, lightly active?
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
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    fat2fit has a calculator that takes bf% into account, and I think Scooby's workshop does as well.
  • RoyBeck
    RoyBeck Posts: 947 Member
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    Well I've just posted my info on there and it's given me a bmr of 3431 with Harris-benedict and a TDEE of 4588 so it's safe to assume I won't be paying any attention to that.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    Yes, this is why some people use Methods that take into account body fat % Your muscles are 3 times more effective at burning calories than fat is. So this makes sense. But 2700 seems low and 4300 seems too too high, so maybe start somewhere in between and experiment?

    The ratio is correct but remember that the actual numbers are pretty low:
    2 cals per lb of fat per day
    6 cals per lb of muscle per day

    Building muscles is actually not a very time efficient way to burn calores - great for lots of other reasons but best to ignore a lot of the hyperbole around "creating a calorie burning machine" through adding a few pounds of muscle.

    As for TDEE - the best way is from your actual results, be accurate with logging your intake and compare with results over time. Estimators really just provide a reasonable start point.
  • taiyola
    taiyola Posts: 964 Member
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    I used an online calculator that takes in to account my body fat percentage (based on my scales) which was relatively close to my maintenance when sedentary.

    I was sofa and bed-ridden for a good week or two, ate on average 1700 calories, and gained 0.5lb after around two weeks. The calculator gave me 1750, but obviously normally I would be walking bits and bobs, doing my normal daily activity, and also going to the gym.
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member
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    There are a lot of factors that determine TDEE, so yes there is a lot of room for error. Only way to know for sure is via trial-and-error.
    QFT.

    A lot of people take the TDEE as an absolute, run your numbers through the calculator and there's your daily calorie goal. Pick a different TDEE calculator and it shows a different result, etc. What? :huh: All the calculators give a baseline estimate. It's up to the individual to fine tune that number through carefully monitoring calorie intake, staying consistent with exercise and regular weighs ins to track gains/losses. I give myself 6 - 8 weeks to test the baseline number.
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
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    Well I've just posted my info on there and it's given me a bmr of 3431 with Harris-benedict and a TDEE of 4588 so it's safe to assume I won't be paying any attention to that.

    Like others said, it is good to use trial and error also. To find what works for you. So start with something you feel comfortable with, and adjust it depending on your results and how it works for you in terms of energy and hunger. But, other than that, this is outside of the range of what I can advise on.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    ...but people dont realize the most accurate way aside from trial and error to figure out someones TDEE is not using the calculator based on height and weight only, but BODYFAT percent ...

    I used to bring this up quite often in people's "help! I'm stalled!" threads.

    Truth is, most people didn't want to hear it, they generally insisted on believing the higher number.

    So I stopped.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    Out of interest what do you think mine would be? 210, 30% BF, 5ft10, lightly active?

    BMR is around 1800, non-exercise TDEE will be around 2400.

    EDIT: No idea how you came up with your numbers. This is out of the IIFYM calculator.
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
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    Yes, this is why some people use Methods that take into account body fat % Your muscles are 3 times more effective at burning calories than fat is. So this makes sense. But 2700 seems low and 4300 seems too too high, so maybe start somewhere in between and experiment?

    The ratio is correct but remember that the actual numbers are pretty low:
    2 cals per lb of fat per day
    6 cals per lb of muscle per day

    Building muscles is actually not a very time efficient way to burn calores - great for lots of other reasons but best to ignore a lot of the hyperbole around "creating a calorie burning machine" through adding a few pounds of muscle.

    As for TDEE - the best way is from your actual results, be accurate with logging your intake and compare with results over time. Estimators really just provide a reasonable start point.

    Ditto that.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    Actually, the *best* way to find your true TDEE is by consistently and accurately logging your calories. The online calculators tried to tell me that my TDEE was somewhere between 1600-1900, depending on the formula used. After six months of careful tracking, I found my true TDEE is actually about 2550 calories. (It's no wonder I was starving and weak trying to cut from 1900.) They also say that your TDEE will decrease as you lose, but after losing over 70 pounds, my TDEE is still roughly 2500 calories. (To be sure, I have been faithful with protein intake and regular strength training to preserve LBM.)

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