Gary Taubes
Replies
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I'd like to see the scientific research it is based on. From what I have heard, it is zero.
It based on a lot of research - but you have to read his bookd or his articles. If you haven't read it and only going by hearsay, you haven't educated yourself on the topic.
That is what I'm doing - reading it for myself and getting others' thoughts.0 -
I've read one of his books (Why We Get Fat...), I wasn't impressed.
What specifically didn't impress you?0 -
I'd like to see the scientific research it is based on. From what I have heard, it is zero.
It based on a lot of research - but you have to read his bookd or his articles. If you haven't read it and only going by hearsay, you haven't educated yourself on the topic.
That is what I'm doing - reading it for myself and getting others' thoughts.
The complicating issue with citing sources is that it is quite easy for someone to select only the research that supports his or her conclusion and neglect to consider research that refutes said conclusion/premise.
So you can claim something is "based on science" but if you cite 3 studies to support yourself and there's 15 studies that say the opposite of what you're claiming, then you're not really considering the body of evidence as a whole.
Have you read James Krieger's work yet?0 -
Some of the things Taubes says are just completely wackado...
"You don't get fat because you eat too much, you eat too much because you are fat."
Yeah, but, how did you get there in the first place?
So, paleojoe, do you know what research led Taubes to this conclusion? He didn't actually do the research himself, of course - he's an author. It was an experiement on rats and removing specific hormones.
And, if you believe Taubes is wrong - do you believe then, that all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character? Couldn't there, even a chance, that there could be something physiologically wrong in the body?0 -
And, if you believe Taubes is wrong - do you believe then, that all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character? Couldn't there, even a chance, that there could be something physiologically wrong in the body?
I think disagreeing with Taubes and believing that
are worlds apart with a massive grey area in between. That seems like a pretty big false dilemma.all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character?0 -
OP, Taubes has been debated and discussed at length on MFP. You're not going to uncover anything that hasn't already been refuted at some point.0
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I'd like to see the scientific research it is based on. From what I have heard, it is zero.
It based on a lot of research - but you have to read his bookd or his articles. If you haven't read it and only going by hearsay, you haven't educated yourself on the topic.
That is what I'm doing - reading it for myself and getting others' thoughts.
The complicating issue with citing sources is that it is quite easy for someone to select only the research that supports his or her conclusion and neglect to consider research that refutes said conclusion/premise.
So you can claim something is "based on science" but if you cite 3 studies to support yourself and there's 15 studies that say the opposite of what you're claiming, then you're not really considering the body of evidence as a whole.
Have you read James Krieger's work yet?
I'll admit, I have not - but I will. I've been reading through Why We Get Fat.
So, SideSteel, would you believe there is a chance, no matter how small, that there could be a wacky problem in the body that "aids" in fat accumulation at all?0 -
There is a ton of scientific evidence that low carb does help some medical conditions such as seizure disorders and diabetes. I do low carb but Taubes has to be taken with a grain of salt.0
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I'd like to see the scientific research it is based on. From what I have heard, it is zero.
It based on a lot of research - but you have to read his bookd or his articles. If you haven't read it and only going by hearsay, you haven't educated yourself on the topic.
That is what I'm doing - reading it for myself and getting others' thoughts.
The complicating issue with citing sources is that it is quite easy for someone to select only the research that supports his or her conclusion and neglect to consider research that refutes said conclusion/premise.
So you can claim something is "based on science" but if you cite 3 studies to support yourself and there's 15 studies that say the opposite of what you're claiming, then you're not really considering the body of evidence as a whole.
Have you read James Krieger's work yet?
I'll admit, I have not - but I will. I've been reading through Why We Get Fat.
So, SideSteel, would you believe there is a chance, no matter how small, that there could be a wacky problem in the body that "aids" in fat accumulation at all?
Fat accumulation is caused by chronic energy surplus (overconsuming calories over time).
That being said, I also believe that it's reductionist to claim that weight loss is all willpower and nothing else. Obesity is a complex scenario with a multitude of factors that contribute to it and/or contribute to resistance to weight loss.
So while we can say accurately that calorie surpluses lead to fat accumulation and calorie deficits lead to fat loss, that's not necessarily going to help the person who can't manage to adhere to their diet for whatever reason.
See here so you can find the specific links to Krieger's work:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/817143-insulin-low-carbs-gary-taubes-and-james-krieger0 -
And, if you believe Taubes is wrong - do you believe then, that all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character? Couldn't there, even a chance, that there could be something physiologically wrong in the body?
I think disagreeing with Taubes and believing that
are worlds apart with a massive grey area in between. That seems like a pretty big false dilemma.all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character?
^^ So true!
People get fat for all sorts of reasons. Some people, like me, get so absorbed in their family, work, etc. that they don't even notice that they are eating too much and gaining weight. I was on my way to 300 pounds when it finally took a photograph for me to realize how fat I'd gotten. For me, it had nothing to do with willpower, character, or anything physically wrong with me. I simply let myself get lazy. I didn't even really understand basic nutrition and believed a lot of the myths that Taubes expounds upon.
The *only* things I changed about my lifestyle:
1) Don't be lazy
2) Pay attention to diet and keep on track
I still eat the same things as I did before, just less of it (oh, and I eat more veggies now too).
Also, how does an experiment on hormones tell us *anything* about an obese person with no hormonal issues? This also speaks to SideSteel's comment about cherry-picking. When you pick and choose only research that supports your book, you end up with studies that have nothing to do with the general population.0 -
And, if you believe Taubes is wrong - do you believe then, that all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character? Couldn't there, even a chance, that there could be something physiologically wrong in the body?
I think disagreeing with Taubes and believing that
are worlds apart with a massive grey area in between. That seems like a pretty big false dilemma.all people who are overweight or obese are lacking will power and have no strength of character?
^^ So true!
People get fat for all sorts of reasons. Some people, like me, get so absorbed in their family, work, etc. that they don't even notice that they are eating too much and gaining weight. I was on my way to 300 pounds when it finally took a photograph for me to realize how fat I'd gotten. For me, it had nothing to do with willpower, character, or anything physically wrong with me. I simply let myself get lazy. I didn't even really understand basic nutrition and believed a lot of the myths that Taubes expounds upon.
The *only* things I changed about my lifestyle:
1) Don't be lazy
2) Pay attention to diet and keep on track
I still eat the same things as I did before, just less of it (oh, and I eat more veggies now too).
Also, how does an experiment on hormones tell us *anything* about an obese person with no hormonal issues? This also speaks to SideSteel's comment about cherry-picking. When you pick and choose only research that supports your book, you end up with studies that have nothing to do with the general population.
I might have to agree with you on that last paragraph. That's how you get individuals on MFP that think, "Oh, I'm fat. I must have a thyroid problem," instead of considering the first reason people likely get fat--calorie surplus. People start thinking they're the exception to the rule.0 -
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People get fat because they eat too much. Whatever the reason they eat too much is varies from person to person. It's mostly because they either don't understand how body mass accumulates or they want that fourth slice of pizza more than they want to be a healthy weight.
There are no demon nutrients. There are no evil foods. With very very few exceptions you can't blame your body or your hormones or whatever.
If you're fat, it's because you eat too much. If you want to know why that is, examine yourself. Don't ask us. To fix it you need to eat less.0 -
no wonder people get so confused about what and how to eat....0
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How did I miss this?
Anyhow, in.0 -
BrainyBurro (smartass) the answer to your question is yes. I tracked my calories and exercised based on the calories in and calories out theory and got nowhere fast. For me being carbohydrate sensitive made eating even so called healthy carbs was a challenge. I was hungry and always craving food. My willpower no matter how strong at the get go would always get to a point of thinking if this is what it takes to be thin I would rather stay fat.
Eating healthy fats and keeping my carbs low changed everything. I no longer have blood sugar spikes causing cravings and hunger, I feel energetic and my mood is wonderful. I have no doubt for me this is the only solution to improved health. Diets don't work and you have to find a lifestyle that you can live with. I am sure there a some people that have been successful doing it a different way but that is the point. Just because something isn't effective for you as an individual does not mean it is not the exact right thing for someone else.
Yes, we can tell. :noway:0 -
I've only read a few of his articles and hypothesis, but check this out:
Taubes has won the Science in Society Journalism Award of the National Association of Science Writers three times and was awarded an MIT Knight Science Journalism Fellowship for 1996-97. He is a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation independent investigator in health policy.
Doesn't sound like a snake oil salesman to me. . . .
Journalist and politician he may be. Doesn't mean his ideas are based on sound science.
Here is a good read: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/why-we-get-fat/0 -
I don't agree completely with everything he claims but I think he has got a lot more right about why we got fat then the conventional dietary guidelines have been spouting.
What many of you on here keep overlooking when spouting off about it all being about burning more then you consume. What you consume significantly effects how much you burn.0 -
I don't agree completely with everything he claims but I think he has got a lot more right about why we got fat then the conventional dietary guidelines have been spouting.
What many of you on here keep overlooking when spouting off about it all being about burning more then you consume. What you consume significantly effects how much you burn.
Well, I might be one of those 'spouting off' in your opinion, but I do know that what you consume does NOT (in fact) significantly effect how much you burn.0 -
That's pretty complicated.........if it was as easy as eating less calories, the USA should be in first place, but they're not, they lead the world in obesity. Why?Some of the things Taubes says are just completely wackado...
"You don't get fat because you eat too much, you eat too much because you are fat."
Yeah, but, how did you get there in the first place?0 -
That's pretty complicated.........if it was as easy as eating less calories, the USA should be in first place, but they're not, they lead the world in obesity. Why?Some of the things Taubes says are just completely wackado...
"You don't get fat because you eat too much, you eat too much because you are fat."
Yeah, but, how did you get there in the first place?
Diminishing work ethic and increasing entitlement (now) attitude?
That's my best guess.0 -
That's pretty complicated.........if it was as easy as eating less calories, the USA should be in first place, but they're not, they lead the world in obesity. Why?Some of the things Taubes says are just completely wackado...
"You don't get fat because you eat too much, you eat too much because you are fat."
Yeah, but, how did you get there in the first place?
Because people don't do the "eating less calories" thing.
The USA is in first place in the obesity race because calories are cheaper and more convenient here than anywhere else on the planet, in combination with the fact that the US has among the highest proportion of people with jobs requiring no physical activity. Oh, and among the highest access to high-tech sedentary entertainment like TV, movies, video games, and internet.0 -
I don't think he's wrong, nor do I think Perlmutter is wrong, nor do I think the Paleo champions are wrong. I don't think Dr. Atkins was wrong. I think all of them overstate their case based on the current research, however.
Which does not mean I don't learn from all of them. I do.0 -
His education is in physics and journalism. He traded in on his success at science writing in the popular press (newspapers and magazines, not scholarly journals) to sell diet books, after those awards. I'm pretty sure even Dr. Oz can trot out a list of accolades.I've only read a few of his articles and hypothesis, but check this out:
Taubes has won the Science in Society Journalism Award of the National Association of Science Writers three times and was awarded an MIT Knight Science Journalism Fellowship for 1996-97. He is a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation independent investigator in health policy.
Doesn't sound like a snake oil salesman to me. . . .
I think the original articles he gained the most fame for were insightful and timely. The FDA recommendations on dietary fat were prime for scrutiny. His later books aren't considered very credible. He presents only the research that supports his ideas and ignores the rest, which overwhelmingly disputes his theories.0 -
Yup, no doubt about it. Not to even enter into the psychology of overeating based on mental health as far as depression, self image etc is concerned...........it's not cut and dry and people are eating more and more even in the face of more awareness of nutrition in regards to labeling of contents and calories. People strive to lose weight only to see months and years of work fall to the waste side of the equation and add new highs to their weight gain. Tragic.
That's pretty complicated.........if it was as easy as eating less calories, the USA should be in first place, but they're not, they lead the world in obesity. Why?Some of the things Taubes says are just completely wackado...
"You don't get fat because you eat too much, you eat too much because you are fat."
Yeah, but, how did you get there in the first place?
Because people don't do the "eating less calories" thing.
The USA is in first place in the obesity race because calories are cheaper and more convenient here than anywhere else on the planet, in combination with the fact that the US has among the highest proportion of people with jobs requiring no physical activity. Oh, and among the highest access to high-tech sedentary entertainment like TV, movies, video games, and internet.0 -
BrainyBurro (smartass) the answer to your question is yes. I tracked my calories and exercised based on the calories in and calories out theory and got nowhere fast. For me being carbohydrate sensitive made eating even so called healthy carbs was a challenge. I was hungry and always craving food. My willpower no matter how strong at the get go would always get to a point of thinking if this is what it takes to be thin I would rather stay fat.
Eating healthy fats and keeping my carbs low changed everything. I no longer have blood sugar spikes causing cravings and hunger, I feel energetic and my mood is wonderful.
hmmm, you don't actually state that you were eating at a deficit. what I am getting from this isn't that when eating at a deficit, carbs prevented weight loss...I'm getting that eating carbs made you hungrier which cause you to eat more...thereby going over your calorie allotment for the day. So, while yes, eating carbs made weight loss difficult for you, it wasn't the actual carbs that prevented you from losing weight, it was the inability to stick to your caloric goal while including carbs in your diet. Those are 2 very different things.0 -
I'm familiar with some of Taube's writing, well versed in research, and am working on a masters degree in physiology. I actually find most of Taubes' work to be based on very legitimate science, although, as with anything in science, you will be able to find a source that disagrees if you look hard enough. And as much as I hate to say it, people's blogs and forums (like this one) are not going to guarantee good information, even if they mean well. Something worth researching is Sweden's recent changes in dietary recommendations to be very similar to what Taube's recommends. This change was based on a massive review of 16000 scientific articles by some very credible dieticians.0
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I'm familiar with some of Taube's writing, well versed in research, and am working on a masters degree in physiology. I actually find most of Taubes' work to be based on very legitimate science, although, as with anything in science, you will be able to find a source that disagrees if you look hard enough. And as much as I hate to say it, people's blogs and forums (like this one) are not going to guarantee good information, even if they mean well. Something worth researching is Sweden's recent changes in dietary recommendations to be very similar to what Taube's recommends. This change was based on a massive review of 16000 scientific articles by some very credible dieticians.
Sweden's new dietary suggestions are lower carbs, but not 'low carb' per se. Once doesn't have to look very hard to find studies results that refute Taube's opinions.
Blogs and forums are fine for recommendations, as long as references to peer reviewed published studies are provided.0 -
I'm familiar with some of Taube's writing, well versed in research, and am working on a masters degree in physiology. I actually find most of Taubes' work to be based on very legitimate science, although, as with anything in science, you will be able to find a source that disagrees if you look hard enough. And as much as I hate to say it, people's blogs and forums (like this one) are not going to guarantee good information, even if they mean well. Something worth researching is Sweden's recent changes in dietary recommendations to be very similar to what Taube's recommends. This change was based on a massive review of 16000 scientific articles by some very credible dieticians.
Sweden's new dietary suggestions are lower carbs, but not 'low carb' per se. Once doesn't have to look very hard to find studies results that refute Taube's opinions.
Blogs and forums are fine for recommendations, as long as references to peer reviewed published studies are provided.
Actually the Swedish council (SBU) has stated the benefits of LOW carb diets for both obesity and diabetes.
Here's a quote: …"a greater increase in HDL cholesterol (“the good cholesterol”) without having any adverse affects on LDL cholesterol (“the bad cholesterol”). This applies to both the moderate low-carbohydrate intake of less than 40 percent of the total energy intake, as well as to the stricter low-carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrate intake is less than 20 percent of the total energy intake. In addition, the stricter low-carbohydrate diet will lead to improved glucose levels for individuals with obesity and diabetes, and to marginally decreased levels of triglycerides."
English translated version found here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&prev=_dd&u=http://www.sbu.se/sv/Publicerat/Gul/Mat-vid-fetma-/0 -
I'm familiar with some of Taube's writing, well versed in research, and am working on a masters degree in physiology. I actually find most of Taubes' work to be based on very legitimate science, although, as with anything in science, you will be able to find a source that disagrees if you look hard enough. And as much as I hate to say it, people's blogs and forums (like this one) are not going to guarantee good information, even if they mean well. Something worth researching is Sweden's recent changes in dietary recommendations to be very similar to what Taube's recommends. This change was based on a massive review of 16000 scientific articles by some very credible dieticians.
Sweden's new dietary suggestions are lower carbs, but not 'low carb' per se. Once doesn't have to look very hard to find studies results that refute Taube's opinions.
Blogs and forums are fine for recommendations, as long as references to peer reviewed published studies are provided.
Actually the Swedish council (SBU) has stated the benefits of LOW carb diets for both obesity and diabetes.
Here's a quote: …"a greater increase in HDL cholesterol (“the good cholesterol”) without having any adverse affects on LDL cholesterol (“the bad cholesterol”). This applies to both the moderate low-carbohydrate intake of less than 40 percent of the total energy intake, as well as to the stricter low-carbohydrate diet, where carbohydrate intake is less than 20 percent of the total energy intake. In addition, the stricter low-carbohydrate diet will lead to improved glucose levels for individuals with obesity and diabetes, and to marginally decreased levels of triglycerides."
English translated version found here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&prev=_dd&u=http://www.sbu.se/sv/Publicerat/Gul/Mat-vid-fetma-/
Yes, the new Swedish recommendation suggests lowering carbs, with lower carb intake associated with greater health benefits. I have a few articles that I will post links to once my school gets its online library access up and running again (It seems they are updating the website over the winter break). And although I technically can't cite my own life experiences, I have met several people who have been struggling with weight for years, traditional low fat diets were not working (in the long term), and have finally had success following low carb.
Also, until recently I was completely against this LCHF idea until I really researched it.0
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