super simplified strength program for cutting
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pcastagner
Posts: 1,606 Member
Ok question for the strength folks:
I'm happy with my progress in body composition so far, as I've gone from kinda fat guy to pretty fit guy in a year.
However, it has taken me a while to get my act together on strength and as a result my squat in particular is very weak, with my 5RM only 10lbs heavier than my 5rm bench press. That's pretty sad IMO. I'm just at the start of a cut, and feeling like the last bulk would have gone better had I not been chasing strength progress I could have achieved while losing weight.
I've been doing an upper/lower split, but I've decided squats twice a week just isn't enough, and I've noticed I get the most benefits for work from the squat, deadlift, and OHP. So as I begin this latest slow cut, I'm considering the following (warmups not included). What I'm trying to figure out is, how much do I need to stimulate to reduce muscle loss? Can I get away with just OHP, squats, pullups, and deads?
so I'm thinking either:
Every other day - squat,OHP,pullup 5x5's, with deadlifts once every 8 days
or
the following 8 day cycle:
Day 1
OHP 5x5
Dips to failure x5
chinups to failure x5
day 2
rest
Day 3
Squat 5x5
Pull-up failx5
Good Morning 8x3
day4
rest
day5
Squat
OHP
chin-up
day6
rest
day 7
Squat 5x5
bench press 5x5
deadlift 5x3
day 8 rest
comments or criticisms most welcome. I generally need 8 days after deads to get back to full strength.
current stats: 170lbs
Deadlift 245lbs x 3 (double overhand grip)
Squat 160 x5
OHP 95 x5
Bench 150 x5
I'm happy with my progress in body composition so far, as I've gone from kinda fat guy to pretty fit guy in a year.
However, it has taken me a while to get my act together on strength and as a result my squat in particular is very weak, with my 5RM only 10lbs heavier than my 5rm bench press. That's pretty sad IMO. I'm just at the start of a cut, and feeling like the last bulk would have gone better had I not been chasing strength progress I could have achieved while losing weight.
I've been doing an upper/lower split, but I've decided squats twice a week just isn't enough, and I've noticed I get the most benefits for work from the squat, deadlift, and OHP. So as I begin this latest slow cut, I'm considering the following (warmups not included). What I'm trying to figure out is, how much do I need to stimulate to reduce muscle loss? Can I get away with just OHP, squats, pullups, and deads?
so I'm thinking either:
Every other day - squat,OHP,pullup 5x5's, with deadlifts once every 8 days
or
the following 8 day cycle:
Day 1
OHP 5x5
Dips to failure x5
chinups to failure x5
day 2
rest
Day 3
Squat 5x5
Pull-up failx5
Good Morning 8x3
day4
rest
day5
Squat
OHP
chin-up
day6
rest
day 7
Squat 5x5
bench press 5x5
deadlift 5x3
day 8 rest
comments or criticisms most welcome. I generally need 8 days after deads to get back to full strength.
current stats: 170lbs
Deadlift 245lbs x 3 (double overhand grip)
Squat 160 x5
OHP 95 x5
Bench 150 x5
0
Replies
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Right, so first thing first, sorry if this sounds harsh...
How come it takes 8 days to recover from deads? It shouldn't really take that long - I've pulled 2 PB's in 3 days before, granted I'm A) Bulking, and
Lifting for over 3 years, but 8 days is a bit long.
Regarding a extra simple workout, what you have is good, but I'd suggest a few tweaks:
You only have a vertical pull - Pull-ups I'd add a Horizontal one as well i.e: BOR, an extra move for the posterior chain as well - i.e SLDL
For a simple workout, here's the workout I started with 3 years ago. Workout A, Workout B, 3 times a week, rotate - So week 1 = A, Rest. B, Rest, A, then week 2 is B, Rest, A, Rest, B, then cycle..
A:
Squats
bench press
SLDL
OHP
chinups/pullups
B:
Deadlift
dips
Lunges
dumbbell shoulder press
bent over rowing0 -
Right, so first thing first, sorry if this sounds harsh...
How come it takes 8 days to recover from deads? It shouldn't really take that long - I've pulled 2 PB's in 3 days before, granted I'm A) Bulking, and Lifting for over 3 years, but 8 days is a bit long.
lol because I am old?
ok I'll rework this. more deads. I guess my reasoning was that Rippetoe recommends once a week, and since I'm cutting I would add a day, and run an 8 day cycle of every other daily workouts. I'm not sure my brain can handle just three days a week. I'll go insane.
could I do good mornings instead of SLDL? Anything I could sub in for bent over rowing? I mean if not, I'll just get over it and do them.0 -
5x5 is a lot of volume for cutting if you've already started to stall. Maybe look into RPT as the format for your lifts to maximize intensity and decrease volume a bit.0
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5x5 is a lot of volume for cutting if you've already started to stall. Maybe look into RPT as the format for your lifts to maximize intensity and decrease volume a bit.
reading now. many thanks.0 -
YW. IMO, after you've exhausted noob gains, autoregulation is the way to go when cutting.0
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Right, so first thing first, sorry if this sounds harsh...
How come it takes 8 days to recover from deads? It shouldn't really take that long - I've pulled 2 PB's in 3 days before, granted I'm A) Bulking, and Lifting for over 3 years, but 8 days is a bit long.
lol because I am old?
ok I'll rework this. more deads. I guess my reasoning was that Rippetoe recommends once a week, and since I'm cutting I would add a day, and run an 8 day cycle of every other daily workouts. I'm not sure my brain can handle just three days a week. I'll go insane.
could I do good mornings instead of SLDL? Anything I could sub in for bent over rowing? I mean if not, I'll just get over it and do them.
Yes, you could sub Good Mornings for SLDL. BOR, not much you can sub in really, OAR/Krock rows, T-Bar Rows could go in place...0 -
Right, so first thing first, sorry if this sounds harsh...
How come it takes 8 days to recover from deads? It shouldn't really take that long - I've pulled 2 PB's in 3 days before, granted I'm A) Bulking, and Lifting for over 3 years, but 8 days is a bit long.
lol because I am old?
ok I'll rework this. more deads. I guess my reasoning was that Rippetoe recommends once a week, and since I'm cutting I would add a day, and run an 8 day cycle of every other daily workouts. I'm not sure my brain can handle just three days a week. I'll go insane.
could I do good mornings instead of SLDL? Anything I could sub in for bent over rowing? I mean if not, I'll just get over it and do them.
Yes, you could sub Good Mornings for SLDL. BOR, not much you can sub in really, OAR/Krock rows, T-Bar Rows could go in place...
just saw a video of pendlay showing how to do the row. now I want to do them. what i've been seeing bros do in the gym, not so much.
I'm gonna give this RPT thing 30 days. let's see what happens.0 -
Pendlay rows are the only type of barbell row I do.0
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Pendlay rows > "regular" barbell bent-over rows.
If you find Pendlay rows to be a little too taxing on your lower back, you can always go the chest-supported row route.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOr-FNIC2g 0 -
Whenever I see something incongruous like squat max barely higher than bench, especially for someone who isn't just a titanic upper body, I think there's probably a form/flexibility issue to address.0
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Pendlay rows > "regular" barbell bent-over rows.
If you find Pendlay rows to be a little too taxing on your lower back, you can always go the chest-supported row route.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxOr-FNIC2g
If they are too much for my back I'll just find an auxiliary lift to straighten things out. My back is not too shabby but I'll report back after today's workout.0 -
I did day one of the RPT program posted here: http://www.fitocracy.com/knowledge/starting-guide-reverse-pyramid-training/
IT WAS AWESOME!
I'm just at the stage where I can do a chinup with enough weight to do a back-off set without assistance, so the recommendation came right on time!0 -
YW. IMO, after you've exhausted noob gains, autoregulation is the way to go when cutting.
please explain autoregulation! thanks0 -
I would add some vertical pull/push on the days you are doing horizontals and vice-versa.
Maybe change it up a bit on your fail days to add weights to your dips/chins/pull ups too.0 -
I would add some vertical pull/push on the days you are doing horizontals and vice-versa.
Maybe change it up a bit on your fail days to add weights to your dips/chins/pull ups too.
yeah this is really coming home to me, that I can't get away with just vertical.
also the weighted dips/chins and eventually pull-ups.0 -
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YW. IMO, after you've exhausted noob gains, autoregulation is the way to go when cutting.
please explain autoregulation! thanks
autoregulation: programming that bases your intensity/reps/sets on capacity on a daily basis, rather than following a prescribed % of 1RM/rep/set scheme.
5/3/1, Westside, Cube, etc are all programmed periodization
RPT, Bulgarian, Nemesis, etc are autoregulated
To a certain extent, SS and SL are autoregulated, because you have a plan in place for if/when you miss at any increment. From another standpoint, they are not, because they come with the inherent supposition that you will never regress on any day.0 -
You might look into the All Pro Beginner routine, supposed to be better when on a cut than ss or sl . It is a full body 3 day a week program, sort of a modified Stronglifts with a couple of added acc. lifts.
http://simplebeginnersroutine.com/
Mike0 -
YW. IMO, after you've exhausted noob gains, autoregulation is the way to go when cutting.
please explain autoregulation! thanks
autoregulation: programming that bases your intensity/reps/sets on capacity on a daily basis, rather than following a prescribed % of 1RM/rep/set scheme.
5/3/1, Westside, Cube, etc are all programmed periodization
RPT, Bulgarian, Nemesis, etc are autoregulated
To a certain extent, SS and SL are autoregulated, because you have a plan in place for if/when you miss at any increment. From another standpoint, they are not, because they come with the inherent supposition that you will never regress on any day.
knowledge acquired! thanks!0 -
5/3/1, Westside, Cube, etc are all programmed periodization
RPT, Bulgarian, Nemesis, etc are autoregulated
To a certain extent, SS and SL are autoregulated, because you have a plan in place for if/when you miss at any increment. From another standpoint, they are not, because they come with the inherent supposition that you will never regress on any day.
I'd say that 5/3/1 is more autoregulated than SS or SL for three reasons. First, the last work set of the main lift is basically AMRAP (not to failure). As such, however many you do - as long as it's for the lower limit of reps - is fine. Secondly, if you don't feel like doing anything else that day, you don't have to. Wendler even states that there are some days he goes in, does the one main lift, and leaves. He also states that, while he can suggest accessory/assistance exercises and overall plans, it's ultimately up to each individual to figure out what (s)he needs and what works best for him/her. Which is the third reason - there are so many different ways to do 5/3/1 that each individual can choose for themselves what, exactly, to do.0
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