Lifters: Not real sure what to do now...
tracieangeletti
Posts: 432 Member
I have been lifting for 7 months now. I lift 3x a week as well as spin 3x a week. I do chest and tri' s, back and bi' s, and legs and shoulders. The program is written to do 3 sets of 10 reps. I started that way but then listened to a trainer who told me about muscle confusion and how I should add another set, which I did. I've been doing 4 sets of each lift for about 20 weeks now. My issue is that I have a MS which makes working out a bit harder on me to begin with, so I'm now finding 4 sets of deadlifts at 150 lbs a little intense. Squats are starting to get rough too. My son thought that maybe 4 sets were too much and I should drop it back to 3 as it was written. My question is would dropping that extra set be a step backwards and interfere with weight loss or toning?
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Replies
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I don't have any experience with MS, but listen to your body. 4 sets of 10 is a lot if you're lifting heavy. Maybe look into a program like 5/3/1 or 5x5 - both great progressive heavy lifting programs with less reps. Also, dropping a set is not going to do anything to harm your weight loss as long as your calories are in order.0
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I don't have any experience with MS, but you can change the qty of lifts & pace. Do you go lower reps for squats (as an example) & work them 2x a week...Listen to your body & experiment. Change the angle of your lifts or add some low weight isometrics to supplement the major lifts (Lateral Raises for shoulders or flys for chest).0
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First off, "Muscle Confusion" is a myth. First time I heard the term was when P90X came out. It may help sell DVDs, but in reality if you want muscles to grow you need to increase the weight you put on the bar, not the volume, especially true with someone with your medical condition. 4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.0
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I don't have any experience with MS, but listen to your body. 4 sets of 10 is a lot if you're lifting heavy. Maybe look into a program like 5/3/1 or 5x5 - both great progressive heavy lifting programs with less reps. Also, dropping a set is not going to do anything to harm your weight loss as long as your calories are in order.
I will have to check to see what 5/3/1 is. I had thought about Stronglifts 5x when I was first looking for a program to do but was nervous about having to do squats 3x a week and trying to add weight each time. I started out adding 5 lbs each workout but as the weight got heavier I started to add 5 lbs every other time I do the lift, so I've been staying at same weigh for two weeks and then adding. I have not been able to that on upper body and isolation lifts though. My upper body strength blows. Two years ago I couldn't lift a gallon of milk without using two hands. No joke. It was terrible.
I am trying to recomp. I still seem to have an extra 5 to 10lbs of flab.:-/ It's getting better and I'm getting smaller but much slower than I'd like. Tried and still trying to drop calories to speed up loss but lifts and motivation seem to suffer. Not sure what to do there either. Better to bite the bullet drop calories and have lifts and mood suffer, or keep at current level and struggle with these last lbs???0 -
First off, "Muscle Confusion" is a myth. First time I heard the term was when P90X came out. It may help sell DVDs, but in reality if you want muscles to grow you need to increase the weight you put on the bar, not the volume, especially true with someone with your medical condition. 4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.
truth! especially the bold.0 -
4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.
Try doing a 10, 8, 6, 8 or a 8,6,4,6 or 8,5, 5, 1 or 10, 10, 8 or 5x5 or etc... its limitless.
I do this on my major compound lifts (Squat, Deadlft, benchpress, overhead press and rows.) Then, do the 3x8-12 or 4x 8-12 on the isolation type exercises.0 -
I am trying to recomp. I still seem to have an extra 5 to 10lbs of flab.:-/ It's getting better and I'm getting smaller but much slower than I'd like. Tried and still trying to drop calories to speed up loss but lifts and motivation seem to suffer. Not sure what to do there either. Better to bite the bullet drop calories and have lifts and mood suffer, or keep at current level and struggle with these last lbs???
The last 5-10 lbs are the worst. When I started I *thought* I needed to be 135. I am coming up on my year and have only lost 8 pounds and am at 149. My body has changed completely - I am happy now with how I look and would have to give up a lot to get to 135 which I won't do. It takes a while. Don't cut and be miserable.
One of my favorite stories that I read when I first started is below. The quote that stuck with me was "I would gain ten pounds tomorrow if it meant I could add 50lbs to my deadlift."
- http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/0 -
First off, "Muscle Confusion" is a myth. First time I heard the term was when P90X came out. It may help sell DVDs, but in reality if you want muscles to grow you need to increase the weight you put on the bar, not the volume, especially true with someone with your medical condition. 4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.
Would dropping from 4 sets to just one set once a week be too little? Maybe for the big compound lifts I could do a 5x5 and keep isolation lifts at 3 or 4 sets at 10 reps. Are you supposed to do 5x5 on deads?? Should I try to do deads and squats more than once a week? I really appreciate all your answers!!:-)0 -
First off, "Muscle Confusion" is a myth. First time I heard the term was when P90X came out. It may help sell DVDs, but in reality if you want muscles to grow you need to increase the weight you put on the bar, not the volume, especially true with someone with your medical condition. 4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.
Would dropping from 4 sets to just one set once a week be too little? Maybe for the big compound lifts I could do a 5x5 and keep isolation lifts at 3 or 4 sets at 10 reps. Are you supposed to do 5x5 on deads?? Should I try to do deads and squats more than once a week? I really appreciate all your answers!!:-)
1 set of deads wouldn't be too little if you up the weight. I'd ramp up to 1 heavier set though, not just jump right into it- cut back to 3x10 this week, next week add 5-10lbs and do 3x8, the following week add 5-10 and do 3x5, the next week 5-10 and 2x5, then the last week add weight and do your 1x5. From there on out try to add weight when you can. If the 5 reps is easy, add 5lbs next time, keep going that way.0 -
4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.
Try doing a 10, 8, 6, 8 or a 8,6,4,6 or 8,5, 5, 1 or 10, 10, 8 or 5x5 or etc... its limitless.
I do this on my major compound lifts (Squat, Deadlft, benchpress, overhead press and rows.) Then, do the 3x8-12 or 4x 8-12 on the isolation type exercises.
So try to vary reps and or sets. I could give this a try.0 -
I am trying to recomp. I still seem to have an extra 5 to 10lbs of flab.:-/ It's getting better and I'm getting smaller but much slower than I'd like. Tried and still trying to drop calories to speed up loss but lifts and motivation seem to suffer. Not sure what to do there either. Better to bite the bullet drop calories and have lifts and mood suffer, or keep at current level and struggle with these last lbs???
The last 5-10 lbs are the worst. When I started I *thought* I needed to be 135. I am coming up on my year and have only lost 8 pounds and am at 149. My body has changed completely - I am happy now with how I look and would have to give up a lot to get to 135 which I won't do. It takes a while. Don't cut and be miserable.
One of my favorite stories that I read when I first started is below. The quote that stuck with me was "I would gain ten pounds tomorrow if it meant I could add 50lbs to my deadlift."
- http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Yes, these last lbs are really messing with my mind and making me sad. Lol I, at one, time thought that I could get down to 115 lbs. I weigh anywhere from 123 to 127 depending on the day. I think the only way I could get to 115 lbs at this point would be by lopping off a limb!!0 -
First off, "Muscle Confusion" is a myth. First time I heard the term was when P90X came out. It may help sell DVDs, but in reality if you want muscles to grow you need to increase the weight you put on the bar, not the volume, especially true with someone with your medical condition. 4 sets of heavy deadlifts for you is ridiculous (I do 1 working set myself). Cut the volume and try increasing the weight on a consistent basis. And as already stated, listen to your body.
Would dropping from 4 sets to just one set once a week be too little? Maybe for the big compound lifts I could do a 5x5 and keep isolation lifts at 3 or 4 sets at 10 reps. Are you supposed to do 5x5 on deads?? Should I try to do deads and squats more than once a week? I really appreciate all your answers!!:-)
1 set of deads wouldn't be too little if you up the weight. I'd ramp up to 1 heavier set though, not just jump right into it- cut back to 3x10 this week, next week add 5-10lbs and do 3x8, the following week add 5-10 and do 3x5, the next week 5-10 and 2x5, then the last week add weight and do your 1x5. From there on out try to add weight when you can. If the 5 reps is easy, add 5lbs next time, keep going that way.
Sounds doable and easy to follow! Thank you!!0 -
One working set of deadlifts, after the warmup sets. You are doing warmup sets, right?0
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yesWould dropping from 4 sets to just one set once a week be too little?
5x5 or 5x3 except for deadlifts.Maybe for the big compound lifts I could do a 5x5 and keep isolation lifts at 3 or 4 sets at 10 reps
no, 5 reps yes not 5 setsAre you supposed to do 5x5 on deads??
yes without a doubt. squat every session, deads every otherShould I try to do deads and squats more than once a week?
example
workout a
squat 5x5
workout b
squat 5x5
dead 5x10 -
Would dropping from 4 sets to just one set once a week be too little? Maybe for the big compound lifts I could do a 5x5 and keep isolation lifts at 3 or 4 sets at 10 reps. Are you supposed to do 5x5 on deads?? Should I try to do deads and squats more than once a week? I really appreciate all your answers!!:-)
My personal reasoning behind only doing one working set of Deadlifts is because it's such a taxing lift. I should add that I also do 3 warm ups sets obviously at lesser weights before my work set (which is 5 reps at the heaviest weight I can lift w/good form). My goal in lifting is to put weight on the bar, and this is what is working for ME. Anyway, if I do more than one set of Deadlifts, I find that all my other lifts after that will suffer. That said, there's many people that do 3x5 or 5x5 just fine. I personally couldn't imagine doing 5 heavy sets of deadlifts, unless that was all I did that day.
Really would need to see your program to give you a better answer. Sorry.0 -
If you are lifting HEAVY you shouldnt be able to do 10 reps of anything.
you should drop to lower reps and 3-5 sets but not 4 sets of 10.0 -
I do 3 warm up sets with progressive weights for the first lift of each muscle set used. This is my program now:
Chest and tri's:
Flat dumbbell press- 3 warm up sets then, 4 x 10 at 30lbs (regular bench is 70lbs) not the best, I struggle with upper body
Incline bench press- 4 x 10 at 60lbs
Push up- 4 x 20
Seated tricep press- 4 x10 at 35lbs
Tricep dips- 4 x 15
Back and bi's:
Deadlifts- warm up, 4 x 10 at 150 lbs
T bar row- 4 x 10 at 70 lbs, normally do pendlay rows
Close grip pull down- 4 x 10 at 55lbs
Dumbbell curls- 4 x 10 at 20 lbs
Barbell curls- 4 x 10 at 40 lbs
Pull ups- 4 x 10, these are not real pull ups I sorta pull up on a bar but with feet stretched out in front of me
Legs and shoulders:
Squats- warm up, 4 x 10 at 130 lbs
Front squat- 4 x 10 at 75 lbs
Leg extension- 4 x 10 at 55 lbs
Leg curl- 4 x 10 at 65 lbs
Military press- warm up, 4 x 10 at 50 lbs
Side lateral raise- 4 x 10 at 10 lbs
Rear delt raise- 4 x 10 at 7 1/2 lbs
The program changes slightly every two months with some lifts changing variations like from barbell to dumbbell or front squats to hack squats
Sound decent? On the right track? Suggestions? :-)0 -
Would dropping from 4 sets to just one set once a week be too little? Maybe for the big compound lifts I could do a 5x5 and keep isolation lifts at 3 or 4 sets at 10 reps. Are you supposed to do 5x5 on deads?? Should I try to do deads and squats more than once a week? I really appreciate all your answers!!:-)
My personal reasoning behind only doing one working set of Deadlifts is because it's such a taxing lift. I should add that I also do 3 warm ups sets obviously at lesser weights before my work set (which is 5 reps at the heaviest weight I can lift w/good form). My goal in lifting is to put weight on the bar, and this is what is working for ME. Anyway, if I do more than one set of Deadlifts, I find that all my other lifts after that will suffer. That said, there's many people that do 3x5 or 5x5 just fine. I personally couldn't imagine doing 5 heavy sets of deadlifts, unless that was all I did that day.
Really would need to see your program to give you a better answer. Sorry.
I transitioned from strength to hypertrophy and it's killing me- I'm shooting for 8 but normally I make 6. And doing 4 or 5 sets of 6 reps is awful- I have deloaded by about 30-50 lbs of my 1 rep max. It's atrocious.
I have no idea how people do 2 sets of 12 anything- it's like torture.0 -
I transitioned from strength to hypertrophy and it's killing me- I'm shooting for 8 but normally I make 6. And doing 4 or 5 sets of 6 reps is awful- I have deloaded by about 30-50 lbs of my 1 rep max. It's atrocious.
I have no idea how people do 2 sets of 12 anything- it's like torture.
You and me both. 8 rep sets are like cardio imo0 -
I transitioned from strength to hypertrophy and it's killing me- I'm shooting for 8 but normally I make 6. And doing 4 or 5 sets of 6 reps is awful- I have deloaded by about 30-50 lbs of my 1 rep max. It's atrocious.
I have no idea how people do 2 sets of 12 anything- it's like torture.
You and me both. 8 rep sets are like cardio imo
Is the difference between hypertrophy and strength lifting that different? Sometimes I wonder if I switched to lower reps if I could lift more weight. Maybe some but I don't think by too much. Am I wrong?0 -
Tracie - personally not a big fan of splits for someone who has not been lifting that long. But if you are making gains in strength than stick with it. Perhaps the extra recovery time for the muscles is needed for you, however, in what reading I've done about MS I've never read that as an issue, but I could be wrong.
It's a decent program. Here's how I'd rewrite it if you were my client. Didn't put weights because I have no idea what you can lift with good form. Probably a bit too much isolation work in the program but if your recovery is good and you're progressively lifting heavier (which should be your goal) then stick with it. I kind of get the impression from what you've stated that your trainer's goal is more to change up exercises (muscle confusion-LOL) than to stick with an exercise and progress with the weight.
Chest and tri's:
Flat dumbbell press- 3 warm up sets then, 3x5
Chest Flyes - 3x12
Push up- 3 x 20
Seated tricep press- 3x10
Tricep dips- 3 x 15 - I'd work up to doing these on parallel bars if you're not already.
Back and bi's:
Deadlifts- warm up, 1x5
T bar row- 3x5
Pull ups- 3x? Work on negatives so you work towards doing the complete Pull Ups
Barbell Curls- 3x10
Preacher Curls 3x10
Legs and shoulders:
Squats- warm up, 3x5
Front squat- 3x5
Lunges (weighted barbell, dumbbell, etc.) 3x10
Military press- warm up, 3x5
Side lateral raise- 3x10
Rear delt raise- 3x10
Basically, Compound Lifts (the most important) 3x5
Isolations 3x8-10
...and thank you for the kind words in your PM
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Thank you so much!! I will try this and see if it's a bit easier for me. I may someday switch to a 5 x 5 or 5 x 3 routine altogether without the splits. I started with splits for several reasons. First, I was just plain afraid of squats and deads to begin with and thought that having them to do just once a week would be better! Lol Second, my MS makes me feel like I'm always working in a energy deficit to begin with and exercise adds extra drain. I was afraid doing squats 3 x a week and deads sometimes 2 x a week would just zap all my energy and I wouldn't be able to keep up. If my MS flares it can knock me out completly. Third, two of my gym days are back to back and I know you shouldn't work same muscle group two days in a row. If I can switch up my gym days I may try a Stronglifts approach.
Once again thank you so much!! I'm feeling much more positive about my deads tomorrow!!! :-)0 -
I transitioned from strength to hypertrophy and it's killing me- I'm shooting for 8 but normally I make 6. And doing 4 or 5 sets of 6 reps is awful- I have deloaded by about 30-50 lbs of my 1 rep max. It's atrocious.
I have no idea how people do 2 sets of 12 anything- it's like torture.
You and me both. 8 rep sets are like cardio imo
Is the difference between hypertrophy and strength lifting that different? Sometimes I wonder if I switched to lower reps if I could lift more weight. Maybe some but I don't think by too much. Am I wrong?
Training in a lower rep range is more effective for training strength. That's a fact.0
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