Stronglifts 5x5 really build muscle???
DeadliftAddict
Posts: 746 Member
Hey all,
I have been into hypertrophy only training for the past year. I've done the main compound lifts fist followed by isolation work. Been working heavy (80-85% max) with progressive overload and reps in the 6-10 or 8-12 range. I've started doing Brandon Campbell's P.H.U.L. training program at the start of the year. I really enjoy my two power upper/lower days of training in the 5 rep range on the compound lifts on Mondays and Tuesdays. Plus I get an accessory lift for each muscle group on th same day in the 6-10 rep range. Then two upper/lower hypertrophy days on Thursdays and Fridays. With the strength and hypertrophy I can see a person getting stronger and building the size with this hybrid program. My question is in researching StrongLifts 5x5, I'm wondering can a person truly build muscle with only those lifts in that rep range? I was thinking about giving it a try after I finish running P.H.U.L. but not sure if I will build muscle without any higher rep stuff. Looking for any comments from those that have been throught the StrongLifts program with any results. Strength, muscle, or both? Also, If you thing sticking to one of these hybrid type programs would be best for me considering my goals. Which are to gain strength but not looking to be a power lifter and build muscle. I don't plan on ever just training in the 1-3 rep range.
I have been into hypertrophy only training for the past year. I've done the main compound lifts fist followed by isolation work. Been working heavy (80-85% max) with progressive overload and reps in the 6-10 or 8-12 range. I've started doing Brandon Campbell's P.H.U.L. training program at the start of the year. I really enjoy my two power upper/lower days of training in the 5 rep range on the compound lifts on Mondays and Tuesdays. Plus I get an accessory lift for each muscle group on th same day in the 6-10 rep range. Then two upper/lower hypertrophy days on Thursdays and Fridays. With the strength and hypertrophy I can see a person getting stronger and building the size with this hybrid program. My question is in researching StrongLifts 5x5, I'm wondering can a person truly build muscle with only those lifts in that rep range? I was thinking about giving it a try after I finish running P.H.U.L. but not sure if I will build muscle without any higher rep stuff. Looking for any comments from those that have been throught the StrongLifts program with any results. Strength, muscle, or both? Also, If you thing sticking to one of these hybrid type programs would be best for me considering my goals. Which are to gain strength but not looking to be a power lifter and build muscle. I don't plan on ever just training in the 1-3 rep range.
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What exactly are your goals? If it is purely to build muscle mass, you probably won't like the program. It is more geared to build strength. For most people, that will include some muscle mass, but not if you're already trained. One thing to consider is how taking a strength training cycle will benefit you when you cycle back onto mass work and have much more raw strength. Cycling and patience should pay off.0
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You'll absolutely build muscle on a 5x5 program, doing nothing but the exercises described in them. There's no need to do any isolation work in addition to it either (imho), as your body is going to be fully taxed just recovering from your heavy, compound lifts. But those programs are primarily designed for strength training, not hypertrophy.0
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I may have to stick to the hybrid program I started. I'm just thinking I've found my sweet spot in rep range. Maybe 4-6 reps.0
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I may have to stick to the hybrid program I started. I'm just thinking I've found my sweet spot in rep range. Maybe 4-6 reps.
I use a hybrid as well-- it feels like a good balance overall. But I'll switch over to a 5x5 occasionally for a few months to break a plateau or just shake things up.0 -
I use a hybrid as well-- it feels like a good balance overall. But I'll switch over to a 5x5 occasionally for a few months to break a plateau or just shake things up.
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That sounds like good advice. Thanks. How do you get over plateaus with it if you don't mind me asking?0 -
You'll definitely build size on a 5x5 program. Just because the rep ranges are geared more towards strength doesn't mean sarcoplasmic hypertrophy won't be achieved....a 6-8 rep range at 75% 1rm will give a near equal moderate amount of myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (strength and muscle growth), whereas moving to a 9-12 range will focus largely on sarcoplasmic, some myofibrillar and a little endurance.
I'd rather focus on 6-8 because you're achieving the best of both worlds...just my .20 -
You'll definitely build size on a 5x5 program. Just because the rep ranges are geared more towards strength doesn't mean sarcoplasmic hypertrophy won't be achieved....a 6-8 rep range at 75% 1rm will give a near equal moderate amount of myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (strength and muscle growth), whereas moving to a 9-12 range will focus largely on sarcoplasmic, some myofibrillar and a little endurance.
I'd rather focus on 6-8 because you're achieving the best of both worlds...just my .2
This is great info. I was looking for this. I was thinking in th range of 4 or 5-8.0 -
That sounds like good advice. Thanks. How do you get over plateaus with it if you don't mind me asking?
I couldn't really tell you what's going on physiologically, but someone suggested I try switching over to a 5x5 once when I'd been stalled out on overhead press and bench for several months. I had to drop down the weight I was moving at first, but was surprised to find I pretty much walked through my previous ceiling after a few weeks. Something about the lower rep range and pace of progression, I suppose. Really good for strength gains.
Anyway, I just switched back to my hybrid routine after 14 weeks or whatever it was. I expect I'll go back to a 5x5 when I hit another plateau.0 -
OP if you're looking for a good hybrid routine here is the one I currently use. It's probably the best routine I've ever come across and holds a great medium between strength and hypertrophic rep ranges. Focuses on isolation and compound exercises.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/
It's made to be followed and not amended or added on to0 -
OP if you're looking for a good hybrid routine here is the one I currently use. It's probably the best routine I've ever come across and holds a great medium between strength and hypertrophic rep ranges. Focuses on isolation and compound exercises.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/
It's made to be followed and not amended or added on to
*Bookmarking. That's an interesting workout. I might have to try that myself.0 -
OP if you're looking for a good hybrid routine here is the one I currently use. It's probably the best routine I've ever come across and holds a great medium between strength and hypertrophic rep ranges. Focuses on isolation and compound exercises.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/
It's made to be followed and not amended or added on to
*Bookmarking. That's an interesting workout. I might have to try that myself.
Do this routine, eat good food, get plenty of rest and you will grow like a weed.0 -
OP if you're looking for a good hybrid routine here is the one I currently use. It's probably the best routine I've ever come across and holds a great medium between strength and hypertrophic rep ranges. Focuses on isolation and compound exercises.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/
It's made to be followed and not amended or added on to
I use and love this routine. It was what I used most of the year last year. I was cutting most of the year but the newbie gains came and I dropped a ton of fat without a bunch of cardio.0 -
In...
...because this discussion is relevant to my interests.0 -
Look into Layne Norton's PHAT for hypertrophy/strength. Similar to PHUL in some ways.0
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Are you eating at a surplus?
From what I've read, volume is important for gaining size. Not sure Stronglifts will do that for you.
This is Lyle McDonald's generic bulking plan:
http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=16960 -
I was googling this topic just recently. I read that a simple way to add hypertrophy to SL is after you finish your last set, back off the weight and complete a set in the 8-12 rep range.
I'll find the source when I can be bothered. I don't even recall how respected a source it was.
ETA : It was actually a backoff set of 10-30 reps. Source -
http://muscleevo.net/stronglifts-5x5-workout/#.Us9ol55dUuc
Before I get personally flamed about any inaccuracies in that article, I'm just sharing what I found. I don't have the experience to judge it's quality at this time, which is one reason I figured I'd put it here.0 -
Both will build size as well as strength. I seriously doubt you would be able to tell the difference in size gain between the two routines as a new lifter. All other things being the same.
The program you are on is a great one though. If you like it there is really no need to switch unless you just want to try out other programs.
Personally I like routines with periodization built in. Working across multiple rep ranges is more enjoyable for me but my main goal is not power lifting either.0 -
Yepp!In...
...because this discussion is relevant to my interests.0 -
Both will build size as well as strength. I seriously doubt you would be able to tell the difference in size gain between the two routines as a new lifter. All other things being the same.
The program you are on is a great one though. If you like it there is really no need to switch unless you just want to try out other programs.
Personally I like routines with periodization built in. Working across multiple rep ranges is more enjoyable for me but my main goal is not power lifting either.
I'm thinking the same thing. I looked at Layne Norton's PHAT but I like the 2 on 1 off 2 on 2 off approach of Brandon's workout. I may be sticking to it. I wanted to see what others thought of the StrongLifts 5x5 claim's of muscle gains with his program. Plus I'm not sure I can handle squating heavy three days a week.0 -
Are you eating at a surplus?
From what I've read, volume is important for gaining size. Not sure Stronglifts will do that for you.
This is Lyle McDonald's generic bulking plan:
http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696
I am experimenting with finding my true maintenance calories right now. Adding a 100 each week to see if I gain a pound or not. I've ate at a deficit for so long. Then I will eat a a sight surplus.0 -
In for reference0
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Yep, I believe in hybrid routines. PHUL is just Layne Norton's PHAT in 4 days instead of two. Pretty cool.
Personally I'm doing a variant of 5/3/1, where I use the compound movements for strength, and the rest of my work is for hypertrophy.0 -
Yep, I believe in hybrid routines. PHUL is just Layne Norton's PHAT in 4 days instead of two. Pretty cool.
Personally I'm doing a variant of 5/3/1, where I use the compound movements for strength, and the rest of my work is for hypertrophy.
That sounds like a good idea. I've not wanted to run the 5/3/1 program because I don't have the interest in going anywhere below 3-4 reps but doing it and following up with hypertrophy might be good. I guy here at work is new to lifting and he is starting with old Beyond 5/3/1.0 -
Yep, I believe in hybrid routines. PHUL is just Layne Norton's PHAT in 4 days instead of two. Pretty cool.
Personally I'm doing a variant of 5/3/1, where I use the compound movements for strength, and the rest of my work is for hypertrophy.
That sounds like a good idea. I've not wanted to run the 5/3/1 program because I don't have the interest in going anywhere below 3-4 reps but doing it and following up with hypertrophy might be good. I guy here at work is new to lifting and he is starting with old Beyond 5/3/1.
Why not below 4 reps?0 -
Yep, I believe in hybrid routines. PHUL is just Layne Norton's PHAT in 4 days instead of two. Pretty cool.
Personally I'm doing a variant of 5/3/1, where I use the compound movements for strength, and the rest of my work is for hypertrophy.
Thats what I do as well. :drinker:0 -
This bit here from the intro to Layne's PHAT program has informed all of my training since:
"Most people try to make these issues out to be black and white to solidify their stances and often fail to acknowledge that these issues are not black and white and there is a substantial gray area. Take the arguments regarding rep ranges for example. How often have you heard you should ONLY train in ‘X’ rep range because it is the best one for growth. Then two days later you see an article interviewing a 300 lb behemoth who trains in a different rep range but also looks insane, so who are you to believe?"
I've said before that I made the decision to listen to Layne a while ago. I like what he claims is important to him, and I like his approach. In an industry where there's always the risk of someone being a fraud, he seems the most credible given his university degrees, academic research, and bodybuilding/powerlifting chops.
His stance... the answer falls in the grey area in between. Train both. Done. Works for me. It's also backed up by others I look up to like Wendler.0 -
There has been a bunch of suggestions as to routines already so I will not add my 2c...however, you cannot just look at the rep range when looking at sarcoplasmic v myofibril hypertrophy and there is no hard line - it is a continuum.
While not necessarily optimal for it, you can make size gains on SL. The reason I think it is not necessarily optimal is mainly due to the fact that it does not really lend itself to much assistance work however and less to do with the 5 rep range.
At the end of the day, the best selection depends on how long you have lifted, your preferences, time etc. However, for someone who has been lifting for a while, a routine that mixes rep ranges will generally be preferable.0 -
Yes, you can build a lot of muscle on a 5x5 and also get quite strong.0
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Yep, I believe in hybrid routines. PHUL is just Layne Norton's PHAT in 4 days instead of two. Pretty cool.
Personally I'm doing a variant of 5/3/1, where I use the compound movements for strength, and the rest of my work is for hypertrophy.
That sounds like a good idea. I've not wanted to run the 5/3/1 program because I don't have the interest in going anywhere below 3-4 reps but doing it and following up with hypertrophy might be good. I guy here at work is new to lifting and he is starting with old Beyond 5/3/1.
Why not below 4 reps?
It just seems to me to be away from my overall goals. And that can just the hypertrophic talk coming out of me. 4-6 when I'm focusing on strength just seems like spot for me. I'm open to going lower at some point.0 -
This bit here from the intro to Layne's PHAT program has informed all of my training since:
"Most people try to make these issues out to be black and white to solidify their stances and often fail to acknowledge that these issues are not black and white and there is a substantial gray area. Take the arguments regarding rep ranges for example. How often have you heard you should ONLY train in ‘X’ rep range because it is the best one for growth. Then two days later you see an article interviewing a 300 lb behemoth who trains in a different rep range but also looks insane, so who are you to believe?"
I've said before that I made the decision to listen to Layne a while ago. I like what he claims is important to him, and I like his approach. In an industry where there's always the risk of someone being a fraud, he seems the most credible given his university degrees, academic research, and bodybuilding/powerlifting chops.
His stance... the answer falls in the grey area in between. Train both. Done. Works for me. It's also backed up by others I look up to like Wendler.
Great point. I'm going to continue to train both going forward.0
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