Advice Please on Alcohol

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  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    I'd be interested in seeing Lyle McDonald's follow-up if you can find it. And I'd be grateful if anyone can cite anything to help me figure out the conundrum I always get to when alcohol is discussed on these boards:

    I don't understand the significance of the priority metabolization of alcohol when eating in a deficit. Yes, I understand as a toxin it is broken down first and takes priority over other sources of energy (calories from non-alcohol sources available / fat stores). But if a specific individual would burn as TDEE on any given day 2500 calories, getting 500 of those calories from alcohol should not alter the basic concept of calorie in / calorie out. It may alter the timing of the energy sources over the course of the day (or longer) but not the in / out relationship.

    Think of it this way -- if you are eating / drinking at a deficit, then it doesn't matter so much (possible esoteric composition issues aside? other unknown effects?) that your body is spending part of its time busily metabolizing the alcohol as a priority -- it is still going to finish the day or week having to have found the same extra calories needed to function from your body's stores. Fat storage and oxidation is always happening, and pushing alcohol to the front of the line would not seem to alter the basic energy in - energy out calculation.

    And for OP - I drink regularly and sometimes heavily. I am 55+ lbs down from my high. I count all my alcohol calories and I am not prone to snacking when tipsy - but if I were, I'd log the cals. My personal experience has been that so long as I manage my calories, drinking hasn't prevented regular and sometimes rapid (by MFP standards) weightloss.

    If you are in caloric deficit, then you are fine.
    or you are hitting your caloric needs.

    That is why I and others were saying, just make sure you count it properly.

    Cause what you see with a lot of people who are fat or have a spare tire is the fact that they are not in deficit.
    So every thing they are eating, while drinking is being stored as fat, due to the fact that the body is working to get rid of the alcohol.
    So it is not the alcohol that is making people fat, per say.

    And the other thing is to make sure you get your minimum protein and fat intake...
    If you are hitting those, and you wish to make up the rest of your calories in alcohol, then I guess go head....
    But then you start getting into the lack of nutritional value....

    I guess it comes down to your goals and desires....
    For me, and my goals.....I don't do alcohol...
    Never had a desire for the stuff.....so I don't drink it.
    But that is me....
    If you need a drink to take the edge off....then go ahead and have some.....

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html


    In regards to Lyle's follow up:
    He wrote
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/lean-body-mass-maintenance-and-metabolic-rate-slowdown-qa.html
    a long while back I had written an article as a background primer to something I had intended to write about alcohol. Well, now I don’t have to since Martin Berkhan over at Leangains.com has written it. In his article The Truth about Alcohol, Fat Loss and Muscle Gain he pretty much covers everything you could ever want to know about the topic.

    So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

    I will excerpt this one portion from the article::
    And please for God sake, read the whole article, I am not trying to cherry pick here....
    I have posted links and info, so I am not shorting anyone from what I understand/think/believe regarding the issue
    Alcohol is converted to acetate by the liver. The oxidation of acetate takes precedence over other nutrients and is oxidized to carbon dioxide and water. However, despite being a potent inhibitor of lipolysis, alcohol/acetate alone cannot cause fat gain by itself. It's all the junk people eat in conjunction with alcohol intake that causes fat gain.

    Thanks for posting this. I'm at work on a phone and posting so can't get links. Good stuff.

    If I misread in regard to my the cherry picking comment, then my apologies. My concern was simply going beyond the basics of how the body processes alcohol to the "so what" and the importance of total energy balance.
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member

    Thanks for posting this. I'm at work on a phone and posting so can't get links. Good stuff.

    If I misread in regard to my the cherry picking comment, then my apologies. My concern was simply going beyond the basics of how the body processes alcohol to the "so what" and the importance of total energy balance.

    Fine then mate....

    But do not ever call me dishonest again.
    I don't appreciate that one bit....

    I don't know you from Adam, and my only goal when posting on these boards is to share my knowledge and understanding on things.....if I am wrong, say I am wrong, and show me.
    Give me the info, I will do my research.....

    But please do not call me dishonest.
  • MissLakeTime
    MissLakeTime Posts: 59 Member
    I wondered the same thing when I started dieting again...found this helpful

    http://www.disabled-world.com/fitness/diets/alcohol-diet.php

    Thank you for sharing!
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member

    Thanks for posting this. I'm at work on a phone and posting so can't get links. Good stuff.

    If I misread in regard to my the cherry picking comment, then my apologies. My concern was simply going beyond the basics of how the body processes alcohol to the "so what" and the importance of total energy balance.

    Fine then mate....

    But do not ever call me dishonest again.
    I don't appreciate that one bit....

    I don't know you from Adam, and my only goal when posting on these boards is to share my knowledge and understanding on things.....if I am wrong, say I am wrong, and show me.
    Give me the info, I will do my research.....

    But please do not call me dishonest.

    I infered from your post of the first Lyle article, combined with your statement about not drinking alcohol, something that was clearly not true. For the record, "intellectually dishonest" is not the same as calling you generally dishonest. In any event, I apologize. These debates should be vigorous, but fair.
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
    Roger that mate. :drinker:

    and for the record, I never said don't drink alcohol....
    I am not for limiting foods at this point in the game.....
    For me, I don't drink.....just me, party of ONE
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    Roger that mate. :drinker:

    and for the record, I never said don't drink alcohol....
    I am not for limiting foods at this point in the game.....
    For me, I don't drink.....just me, party of ONE

    Cheers :drinker:
  • david6111
    david6111 Posts: 7 Member
    I love a few glasses of wine at the end of the day, but if I have them and I don't get to exercise during the day then there's no way I can get below my calorie target. What worked for me was to cut out the alcohol completely during the week, then have some wine (as much as I want) on Fridays and the weekends. That should also be sustainable and healthy in the long term I'm hoping :-)
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
    So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

    Thanks for digging that up - I'd seen Martin's write-up before (and believe it was linked earlier in this thread). Nice to know that Lyle basically agrees in toto with that write-up. Cheers. :drinker:
  • Sreneesa
    Sreneesa Posts: 1,170 Member
    I always lose weight after a night of drinking and either go back to original weight or keep the weight off.

    Its long term drinking and not fitting them in my calories that messed me up in the past.

    That is me though. Not encouraging it just my body seems to still lose if I drink as long as I fit it in my calories.
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
    So here is Martin's write up to which Lyle deferred to:
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

    Thanks for digging that up - I'd seen Martin's write-up before (and believe it was linked earlier in this thread). Nice to know that Lyle basically agrees in toto with that write-up. Cheers. :drinker:

    Welcome
  • RaspberryKeytoneBoondoggle
    RaspberryKeytoneBoondoggle Posts: 1,349 Member
    I have been drinking about two glasses of wine a day just since I started eating at a calorie deficit. Previously I rarely drank (just coincidence) I reached my goal weight with this daily habit and have managed to maintain my weight since also:)
  • lizziebeth1028
    lizziebeth1028 Posts: 3,602 Member
    Hi i am back trying to loose weight again.....i am after some advice please.

    The big question is are all calories the same, ie if I choose to have a couple of glasses of wine instead of a sandwich, will this still be counted as the same calorie content and will I still loose weight at the same rate, or is there something else I need to be aware of with Alcohol calories.

    :drinker:

    The short answer - calories in vs. calories out.

    However - it's not very healthy to 'drink your meal' every night. I'm sure that's not what you mean. Alcohol, as with everything,...in moderation.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Alcohol sucks.
  • spacelump
    spacelump Posts: 233 Member
    You might consider lower calorie options for your alcohol intake. Someone suggested this site to me and it's come in handy: http//www.getdrunknotfat.com. Also, prepare a light dinner prior, eat, wait an hour or so for it to begin digesting and breaking down calories to fuel and then have a small amount of alcohol. Drink TONS of water to help flush toxins. Prepare for the fact that you are likely to have post drinking munchies. I find pretzels and yogurt help fill my salty/sweet cravings.

    You can still drink and lose. But you have to plan it out and be responsible about your intake still.
    Ideally don't do so more than twice a week and workout! If I have an extra 600 calories from working out, then I treat myself to a vodka tonic or two, but that's it.

    I've lost 9 lbs and still have drank. But who knows? I might have to stop when I get closer to my goal. Oh, and do expect the scale will not be in your favor the following morning. Bloat, bloat, bloat.

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