Alternatives to squats for a bad knee????

JadeCrusader
JadeCrusader Posts: 9
in Fitness and Exercise
My knee cracks and grinds when I squat and I really want to get some tone on my legs and bum but my doctor said to stop squatting. He said to cycle instead... is that actually going to give me bum and leg tone? I wanted to go in and see him and have him give me some serious advice, but my insurance doesn't cover him anymore, so I am left in your hands :). Please, any advice would be great. I was super excited about doing a squat challenge and seeing some results, but it's bad for me I guess. Lunges seriously DESTROY my knees too, so they are out as well.

Replies

  • Mustgetbuff
    Mustgetbuff Posts: 267 Member
    I have bad knees as well and cycling has definitely helped build some strength in my legs, especially climbing hills. Swimming has also been great, as has yoga. I've been seeing a trainer to help build muscle in my quads, hamstrings, and hips in order to ease my knee pain; since then, I've been able to ease into squats and lunges whereas I used to be totally incapable of doing either exercise. You could try a wall squat to begin with, or assisted lunges to relieve stress on the sore joint.

    I suppose it depends on what is actually causing the cracking and grinding, though. Did you doctor specify the problem?
  • JadeCrusader
    JadeCrusader Posts: 9
    I had a tear in my meniscus in my left knee and that doctor trimmed it for me, so basically what I am hearing now, a few years after surgery, is bone grinding bone :(. I'll try wall sits!!! I hadn't thought of that.
  • jhc7324
    jhc7324 Posts: 200 Member
    When you say your knee "cracks and grinds" does it cause pain? I haven't had surgeries, but when I'm warming up for squats I hear all kinds of popping as my joints get ready for the workout. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that kind of sound as long as it isn't hurting you.
  • AlwaysInMotion
    AlwaysInMotion Posts: 409 Member
    Cycling/spinning will definitely tone your legs. A ton of cycling will tone your glutes & hammies, but might bulk up your quads & calves. The upside is you'd have sinewy, muscled cyclist's legs!

    To protect your knees on the bike, I suggest trying to maintain a higher cadence (i.e. spin speed). 80+ RPM is OK, 90-100+ RPM would be ideal. (BTW: higher cadence is considered optimal for cyclists in general.) Mostly, you'd want to avoid what we call "mashing" - pistonlike up/down movements under heavy resistance, which taxes the knees. Opt for faster pedaling with "easier" gears/resistance vs slower pedaling with harder gears/resistance. Also practice spinning in fluid circles.

    Don't forget other activities like swimming & rowing, which are total body exercises also! Yoga involves a lot of poses held for aduration, which could help strengthen the joints... and improve overall flexibility, too.
  • bio_fit
    bio_fit Posts: 307 Member
    Are you able to see a different doctor? Or maybe they can refer you to a physio?
  • cafeaulait7
    cafeaulait7 Posts: 2,459 Member
    I can still do barbell glute bridges even though squats and lunges (with heavy weight or repetitively) are out. I don't know that that holds true for every knee problem, though! I think it's the smaller ROM and where the weight sits on the body for me.

    One thing I could always do that really does help is ballet (not the plies!). The arabesques and other lifting moves to the side and the back really help the gluteus maximus and medius. Lift high, though, and don't use momentum (and I weight the moves). Similarly, some gyms have a kickback machine that doesn't bend the knee. Watch the standing leg's knee, though. It'll be straight, but it might need support if your muscles aren't up to using it for that much balance.

    My problem is the bending of the knee because of patella tracking issues (that mean bone-on-bone after many years of it). YMMV depending on how comparable yours are.
  • Fit_little_vegan
    Fit_little_vegan Posts: 36
    Spinning/cycling really helped my legs when I used to but not my butt at all.
    For that try donkey kicks, bridges, clamshells, and fire hydrants. I realize you probably have no clue what those are Cus I didn't for the longest time lol go on Pinterest to see step by steps of each and to look up no squat butt exercises, Totally possible. :)
  • Zylahe
    Zylahe Posts: 772 Member
    Hey,
    I tore my meniscus too a few years ago. No surgery, but lots of physio.

    I suggest working on the glutes and hammies, with lots and lots of stretching those and the calves.
    I recommend you tube, denise austin has a pilates hips and thighs that targets the glutes.
    Alo butt bible, but just start with the floor excersises.

    Also my physio has me doing 1 legged. Squats, so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to work up to it, start by walking up/ down stairs. And glute bridges, which are amazing for the hamstrings.
    The key is form and alignment.

    Ooh and cycling hurts my knees, my form is wrong, i bend my knees inwards....
    But on good weeks i can run fine. ( go figure)
  • JadeCrusader
    JadeCrusader Posts: 9
    Thank you so much for all of the replies! I am so used to boards where I ask a question and no one ever answers, or maybe just one or two people. I think I am liking this place :).

    Yes, I will try the wall-sits, donkey kicks, bridges, clamshells, and fire hydrants! I'll Google them. I also have a nice mountain bike, so I have been looking for one of those stationary mounts so I can use it in my living room.

    And when I say my knee grinds, I mean it is definitely bone-on-bone, eek! I have pops and clicks in my other knee (the one that was never injured) and even in my ankles and other joints, but the left knee is definitely a bad thing. I used to have pain in it until I took up jogging, and I think I ground the nerves down or something because I don't have pain while running anymore but afterward my whole leg will ache up to my hip and down to my ankle. And if the barometric pressure in our area changes then I feel it in that knee as well.

    When I begin going down on a squat the entire range of motion is a grinding noise with little pops and it doesn't hurt, but makes me feel sick to my stomach because the idea is just gross and the sound is unnerving, so I stopped doing it. Even my husband was like "EWW", LOL!
  • JadeCrusader
    JadeCrusader Posts: 9
    Hey,
    I tore my meniscus too a few years ago. No surgery, but lots of physio.

    I suggest working on the glutes and hammies, with lots and lots of stretching those and the calves.
    I recommend you tube, denise austin has a pilates hips and thighs that targets the glutes.
    Alo butt bible, but just start with the floor excersises.

    Also my physio has me doing 1 legged. Squats, so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to work up to it, start by walking up/ down stairs. And glute bridges, which are amazing for the hamstrings.
    The key is form and alignment.

    Ooh and cycling hurts my knees, my form is wrong, i bend my knees inwards....
    But on good weeks i can run fine. ( go figure)

    My knee crunches going up stairs too, but worse going down. I am overweight so I feel embarrassed if I take the elevator, so I just grind through the stairs, lol. I'm always happy when I take my daughter somewhere and we walk UP the stairs together, but she's tiny so we don't walk down the stairs yet but take the elevator. My knees thank her on those days, LOL.
  • _HeartsOnFire_
    _HeartsOnFire_ Posts: 5,304 Member
    It may be worth it to see a physical therapist. They can give you some exercises to strengthen the muscles around your knee that can help.

    I have a bum knee, a physical therapist showed me a couple things to help strengthen my quad and that has helped a lot.
  • alexandriax03
    alexandriax03 Posts: 289 Member
    I had a tear in my meniscus in my left knee and that doctor trimmed it for me, so basically what I am hearing now, a few years after surgery, is bone grinding bone :(. I'll try wall sits!!! I hadn't thought of that.

    I have horrible knees so I feel your pain. I was a competitive gymnast and cheerleader for over 10 years so I was prone to injury. I fractured both of my patellas twice. I also have Osgood-Schlatter disease and Chondromalacia patella. I currently have a minor tear in my R meniscus and biking doesn't bother it too much. Don't get me wrong, it hurts, but I push through it. The stationary bike is actually great for strengthening knees. It is often recommended to post knee OP patients to help in their recovery.

    You can also try kickbacks.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
    Go to a physical therapist and have them work you out a specific program to strengthen your knee.
  • JadeCrusader
    JadeCrusader Posts: 9
    I definitely plan on seeing my doctor in person again and getting some physical therapy :), but right now my insurance only covers family planning. I have no idea what this Obamacare thing is going to change, but hopefully it gets me access to new services soon... Because I need it! :)
  • AlwaysInMotion
    AlwaysInMotion Posts: 409 Member
    Some yoga poses you can do (free) at home… used to strengthen legs, but may also help stabilize the knee.
    Triangle pose (trikonasana)
    Warrior poses 1-3 (virabhadrasana I-3)
    Low lunge pose (anjaneyasana)
    Chair pose (utkatasana)
    Bridge pose (setu bandha sarvangasana)
    Revolved side angle pose (parsvakonasana)
    Hand to big toe pose (utthita hasta padangustasana)
    Reclining big toe pose (supta padangustasana)

    *Common poses to *avoid* for bad knees: hero pose, reclining hero pose, child's pose, or lotus pose

    See yogajournal's pose index. http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/finder/browse_index

    Also check out this yoga article: "Bend and Breathe: Five Yoga Poses your Knees Will Love" http://www.yogapaws.com/yoga-blogs-yoga-paws/bid/58016/Bend-and-Breathe-Five-Yoga-Poses-your-Knees-Will-Love

    And this one: "Knee Deep in Yoga" http://www.yogajournal.com/health/1161
  • HappyStack
    HappyStack Posts: 802 Member
    What was the tear pattern?

    Medial tears shouldn't affect your ability to squat safely and pain-free, provided you're squatting with proper form and not doing any of this 1/4 squat nonsense.
  • ThriceBlessed
    ThriceBlessed Posts: 499 Member
    http://www.active.com/fitness/articles/the-best-and-worst-exercises-for-bad-knees

    Cycling should be pretty good too.
  • SuperCrsa
    SuperCrsa Posts: 790 Member
    I also had this problem with my knees.
    I now do my squats with a lifted heel on a plate, it makes a HUGE difference on my knees.

    With lunges, when I do backward lunges that also takes a lot more pressure off my knees than the normal forward lunges.

    You cant actually strengthen the knee itself, but some exercises will help strengthen the muscles around it: Glute bridges, calf raises etc.

    Otherwise you can still get good leg workouts with Deadlifts, and stiff leg deadlifts.

    Good luck.. :smile:
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    In lieu of an actual PT's advice, I'm not sure I'd worry too much if you don't have any real injuries or pain.

    When I squat, my knees make horrible crunching sounds and it sounds and feels like there's sand in there. They make all kinds of noise just walking up stairs.

    Having said that, I can squat full range of motion with no pain and have been for two years. I can squat around 300lbs now with no problems. Use proper form and pay attention to pain. I literally just turn up the music so I can't hear the horrible sounds my knees are making. If there's no discomfort or swelling there probably isn't a problem. If anything, squatting has strengthened my knees substantially.
  • Divine2013
    Divine2013 Posts: 5
    I have bad knees too and avoid lunges and squats because my knees will be in pain afterwards. Others have mentioned most of the things I do to get around it--cycling, spin classes, swimming, yoga, wall squats, bridges. I also do leg raises, which are great for both abs and quads. Donkey kicks (with weights) will work your hamstrings and glutes. Finally a stair mill and an elliptical with the resistance cranked up will also give your quads a good workout without stressing your knees. Hiking up steep hills is also fantastic. Coming down, I use trekking poles to shift my body weight off my knees, and come down sideways for the same reason.

    FWIW, going down stairs is one of the toughest things on your knees. You put four times your body weight on your patella. I know it's embarrassing to be overweight and take the elevator down a flight of stairs, but just do it. Who cares what a bunch of mostly strangers think? I started having problems with my knees in my late teens, and twenty years later (and much heavier), the issue has been stable rather than gotten worse over time. Pain is your body's way of telling you to stop something. Listen to it.
  • jhc7324
    jhc7324 Posts: 200 Member
    In lieu of an actual PT's advice, I'm not sure I'd worry too much if you don't have any real injuries or pain.

    When I squat, my knees make horrible crunching sounds and it sounds and feels like there's sand in there. They make all kinds of noise just walking up stairs.

    Having said that, I can squat full range of motion with no pain and have been for two years. I can squat around 300lbs now with no problems. Use proper form and pay attention to pain. I literally just turn up the music so I can't hear the horrible sounds my knees are making. If there's no discomfort or swelling there probably isn't a problem. If anything, squatting has strengthened my knees substantially.
    This is kind of what I was thinking earlier. A doctor is not the right person to talk to about whether you can do squats (or any exercise really). A physical therapist will be able to better understand the the issues you have with your knees and what they can and can't do safely.
  • JadeCrusader
    JadeCrusader Posts: 9
    Thank you for the replies :)

    It was a lateral meniscus tear, and I'm not sure of the difference between that and a medial tear, but I know that at this point the whole meniscus is nearly severed into two separate pieces from all of the activity since the accident. It took me about 2 to 3 years before I actually went in to get seen because I had NO insurance when it happened. I still wouldn't have gone in, even to this day, if I hadn't fallen down the stairs in 2009 and hurt it more. Luckily I had really good insurance then so I went in to the specialist.

    My doctor is a bone and joint specialist with a physical therapy station just outside his office, inside his own building next to our general hospital. So it's not like he's just an urgent care doctor or something. I just hope I can go see him soon! I'm looking into getting better insurance right now.

    And yes, I should probably reconsider my embarrassment on using the stairs to go down :)
  • AbsoluteFittest
    AbsoluteFittest Posts: 19 Member
    Try some "SUMO" squats which is where the toes are slightly pointed outward and you may feel the burn more in the inner thigh. Also, modify everything if needed. Try a motion and when the pain starts to kick in stop there (Shorten range of motion).

    Other great exercises
    *Wall sits
    *Split Squats
    *Rear leg extensions

    Isometric holds- Finds exercises that work for you, and then hold that position till it BURNS.

    Remember during all squats, keep knees from passing your toes and squat on the heels.

    Ryan :)
  • harley_rose
    harley_rose Posts: 236
    bump
  • eso2012
    eso2012 Posts: 337 Member
    I have no cartilage in my right knee - tore my anterior cruciate ligament 20 years ago. I thought I would never be able to run or jump because the leg is weak (quad muscles and knee).

    At 45, I can now do A LOT of high intensity exercises. All because I started doing Pilates 2+ years ago. Any physiotherapist would tell you that strengthening the muscles around the knee - all directions - is the way to secure and boost your stability and strength. Some muscles are harder to train than others - quads are far easier than inner thighs. Pilates has done wonders to, gently but effectively, build all muscle groups up for me. Now I do HIIT, jump, whatever, and my knee does NOT swell up like before.

    I still hear grinds in certain positions - like if I am pushing on one knee. But those are rare moves that I can also modify.

    I think you should look into Pilates or similar exercises that focus on strengthening your knees. Meanwhile, I agree with others that a good dr or physiotherapist or even sports therapist should be able to give you more specific guidance. Swimming is great.

    I do not agree with your dr that cycling is good but then again I have a different injury.

    Good luck
  • kimby303
    kimby303 Posts: 36 Member
    Jade,
    I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet (I didn't read all of the replies), but I couldn't do lunges because I would get bad knee pain, but I can do the leg press machine without any problems. I know it's probably not as good of a burn as a squat, but it's definitely something.

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