Ketogenic-low carb diet??

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Replies

  • JaceyMarieS
    JaceyMarieS Posts: 719 Member
    Ketoacidosis and nutritional ketosis are quite different. Ketoacidosis occurs with extremely high ketones AND extremely high blood glucose. Diabetics with poor insulin response who are not using supplementary insulin or who are using insulin incorrectly are most at risk for ketoacidosis

    And your cholesterol may improve on a ketogenic diet. Mine did
    beginning lipid panel - 12/27/11 --> last lipid panel 8/22/13
    cholesterol - 207 --> 162
    HDL - 37 --> 57
    LDL - 136 --> 93
    triglycerides - 169 --> 62

    Lastly, I did not suffer "carb flu" and perform cardio (walk/jog/run, Zumba, swimming) and lift heavy.
    I've found keto to be a lifestyle I can live with.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,148 Member
    I've done low carb/Atkins-ish for awhile and it really is what I can stick to for a long amount of time. For some reason I don't binge eat like I do when I don't eat low carb. I've tried low cal and its very difficult for me to stick with it. You may experience the "low carb flu" so don't let that stop you if it's something you seriously want to try to see if it's something for you to get to your goals. I actually have the opposite, when I eat low carb I have more energy and alertness almost right away.

    Good luck! You may want to find a low carb or keto group on MFP that you can join. You also may want to find some ketone strips. (I didn't use them my first round of low carb and had a lot of success but I use them now just to see where I'm at and if I need to cut my sugar/carb intake or if I knocked myself out of ketosis)

    does anyone else think that a diet that gives you a 'flu' is a good thing? I never understood why people want to torture themselves to lose weight when you can just eat in a calorie deficit and work out/move more….
    I suggest you do some reading about what the "low carb flu" is. For some people eating low calorie is torture. If it works for some people great. It doesn't work for everyone. Everyone knows that eating less and working out will get you to lose weight, but its a whole other thing to actually do it.
    Do what works for you. She will do what works for her. If she tries low carb but it doesn't seem to help her cut her calories then she can try harder to limit her cals overall. I will continue to do what works for me. I'm not torturing myself.

    right. so restricting whole food groups is easy, but eating in a moderate 500 per day calorie deficit is hard….sounds legit...
    Seriously? If it was so "easy" and "legit" how do you think people gain weight in the first place? To each their own. Which seems to be a very difficult concept for you to grasp.

    people gain weight for a number of reasons …Eating in a surplus, emotional eaters, just plain old lazy, don't care about what they eat, don't count calories etc…..

    Once you realize that you have come to a point where you have OVEREATEN yourself to obesity and realize that you have to make changes is when you are ready to start making sustainable long term changes. All I am saying is that once you reach that point what sounds easier to you:

    Option 1 - Restrica almost all carbs to the point where you have a "carb flu" and then continue to eat like 10% carbs for the rest of your life and label said food as "bad"…then get a urine stick so that you can check your pee to make sure you are in "ketosis"…


    OR


    Option 2 - Create a 500 calorie daily deficit, hit macros, and work out more more and eat 80% healthy and 20% whatever you want (pizza, ice cream, bread, etc)…

    Whatever you choose is fine with me..I am just saying that I have been doing option 2 for six years now and have had great success with it...
  • MelRC117
    MelRC117 Posts: 911 Member
    I've done low carb/Atkins-ish for awhile and it really is what I can stick to for a long amount of time. For some reason I don't binge eat like I do when I don't eat low carb. I've tried low cal and its very difficult for me to stick with it. You may experience the "low carb flu" so don't let that stop you if it's something you seriously want to try to see if it's something for you to get to your goals. I actually have the opposite, when I eat low carb I have more energy and alertness almost right away.

    Good luck! You may want to find a low carb or keto group on MFP that you can join. You also may want to find some ketone strips. (I didn't use them my first round of low carb and had a lot of success but I use them now just to see where I'm at and if I need to cut my sugar/carb intake or if I knocked myself out of ketosis)

    does anyone else think that a diet that gives you a 'flu' is a good thing? I never understood why people want to torture themselves to lose weight when you can just eat in a calorie deficit and work out/move more….
    I suggest you do some reading about what the "low carb flu" is. For some people eating low calorie is torture. If it works for some people great. It doesn't work for everyone. Everyone knows that eating less and working out will get you to lose weight, but its a whole other thing to actually do it.
    Do what works for you. She will do what works for her. If she tries low carb but it doesn't seem to help her cut her calories then she can try harder to limit her cals overall. I will continue to do what works for me. I'm not torturing myself.

    right. so restricting whole food groups is easy, but eating in a moderate 500 per day calorie deficit is hard….sounds legit...
    Seriously? If it was so "easy" and "legit" how do you think people gain weight in the first place? To each their own. Which seems to be a very difficult concept for you to grasp.

    people gain weight for a number of reasons …Eating in a surplus, emotional eaters, just plain old lazy, don't care about what they eat, don't count calories etc…..

    Once you realize that you have come to a point where you have OVEREATEN yourself to obesity and realize that you have to make changes is when you are ready to start making sustainable long term changes. All I am saying is that once you reach that point what sounds easier to you:

    Option 1 - Restrica almost all carbs to the point where you have a "carb flu" and then continue to eat like 10% carbs for the rest of your life and label said food as "bad"…then get a urine stick so that you can check your pee to make sure you are in "ketosis"…


    OR


    Option 2 - Create a 500 calorie daily deficit, hit macros, and work out more more and eat 80% healthy and 20% whatever you want (pizza, ice cream, bread, etc)…

    Whatever you choose is fine with me..I am just saying that I have been doing option 2 for six years now and have had great success with it...

    Well seeing how option 1 isn't how I live my life and not an accurate way of how people live their how lives maintaining their weight on low carb, I see how someone would pick option 2. I actually did low carb for a number of months and once I was getting to my goal I just watched what I ate overall and stayed within 5 pounds of my lowest weight. The carb flu doesn't happen for everyone. It's also temporary so try to be a little more accurate on what keto/low carb diets are like for those who actually stick to it.
    You might as well say "Just eat less cinnamon buns" to the OP. Which I'm assuming she already knows and why she is on MFP, however doing that is VERY difficult to her to actually do. The will power to stop after 1 or to only eat the portion for her to stay within her allotted calories may not be enough for her.
  • oc1timoco
    oc1timoco Posts: 272 Member
    You might be surprised what fats don't do to your cholesterol. My fats and protein are set at 35% and my blood test are fine. Well within parameters. One size does not fit all. Some people are carb. burning machines and some need higher fats and protein with less carbs. Find what works for you.
  • Going all-out keto might not be the best idea if you really love sugars. Try reducing sugars and starches in increments. You will only keep off the weight by changing your lifestyle: a month of keto and then back to normal will hardly do much good in the long run.
  • TomfromNY
    TomfromNY Posts: 100 Member
    go to the keto / low carb boards

    I've been keto for a week - check out my diary (although this is for a 200+ man). I've lost 6 pounds in a week (although I know this is mostly water weight)

    Try this calculator to see what kind of macros you would like to target

    http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com
  • I was a carboholic and gave up grain, sugar and starchy vegetables at the end of June last year. You will probably go through what they call "Carb Flu" which is basically withdrawal. Mine lasted about 3 days. I've heard of people going through it for a week. The worst part for me was the screaming headache. Once you get past it you will be amazed at how better you feel. If you are on Facebook I recommend joining the "FatHead" page. There is SO much information on there. There are over 3000 people in the group from all over the world. A LOT of good stuff. I have read Wheat Belly and am currently reading Grain Brain. There are other FB pages you can like to get information and recipes in your news feed. Some of the ones I "liked" was Wheat Belly, Low Carbing Among Friends, Low Carb Eating, DJ Foodie. I actually started one just to store all of the recipes I want to try. I haven't lost a lot of pounds because I'm menopausal (TMI) and that hinders. The fact that I'm not exercising is another show stopper. I'm working on that but my energy level and all of my blood work has improved. I was pre-diabetic when I started this way of eating but not any longer. My advise to you is to READ, READ, READ. You will be empowered. Good Luck!!!!
  • I've done low carb/Atkins-ish for awhile and it really is what I can stick to for a long amount of time. For some reason I don't binge eat like I do when I don't eat low carb. I've tried low cal and its very difficult for me to stick with it. You may experience the "low carb flu" so don't let that stop you if it's something you seriously want to try to see if it's something for you to get to your goals. I actually have the opposite, when I eat low carb I have more energy and alertness almost right away.

    Good luck! You may want to find a low carb or keto group on MFP that you can join. You also may want to find some ketone strips. (I didn't use them my first round of low carb and had a lot of success but I use them now just to see where I'm at and if I need to cut my sugar/carb intake or if I knocked myself out of ketosis)

    does anyone else think that a diet that gives you a 'flu' is a good thing? I never understood why people want to torture themselves to lose weight when you can just eat in a calorie deficit and work out/move more….

    It has to do with your body changing over from sugar-burning to fat-burning. The "keto flu" comes from not drinking enough water and not replacing the electrolytes that are being lost. The "keto flu" is quickly "cured" by drinking some broth or boullion to increase the sodium and potassium levels.
  • I was a carboholic and gave up grain, sugar and starchy vegetables at the end of June last year. You will probably go through what they call "Carb Flu" which is basically withdrawal. Mine lasted about 3 days. I've heard of people going through it for a week. The worst part for me was the screaming headache. Once you get past it you will be amazed at how better you feel. If you are on Facebook I recommend joining the "FatHead" page. There is SO much information on there. There are over 3000 people in the group from all over the world. A LOT of good stuff. I have read Wheat Belly and am currently reading Grain Brain. There are other FB pages you can like to get information and recipes in your news feed. I actually started one just to store all of the recipes I want to try. All of my blood work as improved. I was pre-diabetic when I started this way of eating but not any longer. My advise to you is to READ, READ, READ. You will be empowered. Good Luck!!!!

    The Keto Subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/keto) has a lot of good information, too. That's where I started.
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    this is all I have for you ..Keto, Low Carb, IF, etc are not some magical diets that burn through fat….all they are is tools to create a calorie deficit..

    You can accomplish the same thing with a calorie deficit, hitting macro targets, and working out. Sugar is not making you fat. Eating caloric surplus is. I just think it is not a good idea to label certain foods "bad" and then entirely restrict them.

    Ask yourself this. Are you going to eat just about zero carbs/sugar for the rest of your life? I highly doubt it, but I could be wrong...

    Thing is, it seems like carbs are the safest thing (least health risk) for people to cut down on in many cases. Some dieters lose a ton of lean mass because they cut too much protein. I'm not a fan of fad diets, and I actually agree with you...but I also feel that if someone needs to eat low-ish carb for a while in order to make sure they're still getting enough protein, and it's working for them and they actually feel good, then more power to them.

    Problem is, these are just tools, like you said. In theory, the OP will eventually reach a point where low carb won't be enough to sustain her body chemistry. weight, strength, and energy levels.

    The other thing is, there's a fine line between ketogenesis/ketosis and ketoacidosis. This is definitely something you don't want to go to the 'xtreme" with, especially if you have any tendency toward type 2 diabetes (since blood sugar can drop like a rock without small doses of carbs every few hours. If you're eating very low carb, it can be easy to forget to eat your carbs.)

    Overall, I think the mistake that many low-carb dieters make, is continuing to eat that way even once they've reached their weight/body comp goal.
  • fraklein
    fraklein Posts: 53 Member
    Yes!! I've been on LCHF diet for one month, because I was diagnosed with diabetes in October. I've lost 27 pounds since October, and just got my newest lab results this week. ALL my readings are in the normal range now, whereas most of them were out of control before, especially glucose and cholesterol. My current MFP settings are for Carbs / Day 30.0 g; Fat / Day 93.0 g; Protein / Day 60.0 g. I try to stay under the carb limit and go over the fat limit, while keeping protein constant to maintain muscle mass while not overloading the kidneys. I love my new life. I feel (and look) better than I have in years, and I plan to live this way the rest of my life. Oh, and I do the minimum of exercise to keep my heart pumping and my brain working, etc..
  • skittlesnhoney
    skittlesnhoney Posts: 651 Member
    I work in a Special Education classroom with a student who has seizures. Sometimes he has 20 seizures in an hour. He is now on a ketogenic diet to hopefully help to stop the seizures. We have been noticing less seizure activity now that he has been on it for some time. He has lost weight, which for him is not a good thing.

    He hates his food that he has to eat, and he throws up constantly. He is vitamin deficient and he absolutely has to drink lots of water, his mom says, or he will go into kidney failure.

    I understand why his parents have resorted to this. It is a last resort for them, having tried everything else.

    After seeing his struggles and what the diet has done for him, (we have seen a decrease in seizures but an increase in violent behaviors, he drools over my fruit and his siblings fruit like he's seriously missing out, etc.) I myself could never understand anyone that is not sick doing that to themselves on purpose. And I can't see that being something that you could do a lifetime maintenance of.

    Definitely research more and look into the long term effects of this. I came across an article the other day about a child who was on this and this is an exact quote from the article:

    "Paige took her daughter to Chicago to see a Dravet specialist, who put the child on a ketogenic diet frequently used to treat epilepsy that's high in fat and low in carbohydrates. The special diet forces the body to make extra ketones, natural chemicals that suppress seizures. It's mainly recommended for epileptic patients who don't respond to treatment.

    The diet helped control Charlotte's seizures but had a lot of side effects. She suffered from bone loss. Her immune system plummeted. And new behavioral problems started popping up.

    "At one point she was outside eating pine cones and stuff, all kinds of different things," Matt said. "As a parent you have to say, let's take a step back and look at this. Is this truly beneficial treatment because of these other things?"

    Two years into the diet, the seizures came back."

    Please be safe and careful! In my opinion, a diet that could cause such harm to your body, is not a healthy way to lose weight. But I'm not an expert. Good luck!
  • TomfromNY
    TomfromNY Posts: 100 Member
    I've done low carb/Atkins-ish for awhile and it really is what I can stick to for a long amount of time. For some reason I don't binge eat like I do when I don't eat low carb. I've tried low cal and its very difficult for me to stick with it. You may experience the "low carb flu" so don't let that stop you if it's something you seriously want to try to see if it's something for you to get to your goals. I actually have the opposite, when I eat low carb I have more energy and alertness almost right away.

    Good luck! You may want to find a low carb or keto group on MFP that you can join. You also may want to find some ketone strips. (I didn't use them my first round of low carb and had a lot of success but I use them now just to see where I'm at and if I need to cut my sugar/carb intake or if I knocked myself out of ketosis)

    does anyone else think that a diet that gives you a 'flu' is a good thing? I never understood why people want to torture themselves to lose weight when you can just eat in a calorie deficit and work out/move more….

    If someone who has been eating at a calorie surplus (or even a calorie-neutral) diet, suddenly goes on a deficit, they are going to feel pretty crappy too (hungry, tired, etc...)

    My experience with a low-carb diet, is that the feeling goes away within a few days or a week. However, if I try to maintain a calorie deficit without restricting sugar/starches, that feeling doesn't go away at all - I continue to feel hungry and tired.
  • JustFindingMe
    JustFindingMe Posts: 390 Member
    Ok wow. Some good points raised...I ask myself, can I cut out sugar and bread for the rest of my life? no :ohwell:

    BUT - I can cut them down :happy:

    Youre right, Damepiglet, Im here, it works - why over complicate it? LOL

    Thanks again,

    Sarah
  • Only if you are T1 Diabetic
  • fraklein
    fraklein Posts: 53 Member
    I work in a Special Education classroom with a student who has seizures. Sometimes he has 20 seizures in an hour. He is now on a ketogenic diet to hopefully help to stop the seizures. We have been noticing less seizure activity now that he has been on it for some time. He has lost weight, which for him is not a good thing.

    He hates his food that he has to eat, and he throws up constantly. He is vitamin deficient and he absolutely has to drink lots of water, his mom says, or he will go into kidney failure.

    I understand why his parents have resorted to this. It is a last resort for them, having tried everything else.

    After seeing his struggles and what the diet has done for him, (we have seen a decrease in seizures but an increase in violent behaviors, he drools over my fruit and his siblings fruit like he's seriously missing out, etc.) I myself could never understand anyone that is not sick doing that to themselves on purpose. And I can't see that being something that you could do a lifetime maintenance of.

    Definitely research more and look into the long term effects of this. I came across an article the other day about a child who was on this and this is an exact quote from the article:

    "Paige took her daughter to Chicago to see a Dravet specialist, who put the child on a ketogenic diet frequently used to treat epilepsy that's high in fat and low in carbohydrates. The special diet forces the body to make extra ketones, natural chemicals that suppress seizures. It's mainly recommended for epileptic patients who don't respond to treatment.

    The diet helped control Charlotte's seizures but had a lot of side effects. She suffered from bone loss. Her immune system plummeted. And new behavioral problems started popping up.

    "At one point she was outside eating pine cones and stuff, all kinds of different things," Matt said. "As a parent you have to say, let's take a step back and look at this. Is this truly beneficial treatment because of these other things?"

    Two years into the diet, the seizures came back."

    Please be safe and careful! In my opinion, a diet that could cause such harm to your body, is not a healthy way to lose weight. But I'm not an expert. Good luck!

    Sorry, but the diet itself isn't to blame for the problems these children had. I get much more calcium in my diet than I ever did trying the usual low fat/high fiber route. All diets come with caveats, and no one can eat anything they want. You just have to find ways of dealing with differences the diet presents. There are plenty of ways to increase vitamin and mineral intake, as well as providing special treats without going off the diet. When protein is controlled, the kidneys are protected. I realize the stress these parents are under, having been one myself, and as a special educator. I suspect that there are unexplored reasons the diet did not work in these cases.




  • The other thing is, there's a fine line between ketogenesis/ketosis and ketoacidosis. This is definitely something you don't want to go to the 'xtreme" with, especially if you have any tendency toward type 2 diabetes (since blood sugar can drop like a rock without small doses of carbs every few hours. If you're eating very low carb, it can be easy to forget to eat your carbs.)

    This is incorrect. An above poster was correct in stating that ketoacidosis occurs when there are both extremely high ketone bodies and extremely HIGH blood sugar levels. Instead of blood sugar dropping like a rock as you state, blood sugar needs to soar for ketoacidosis to occur. Keotacidosis occurs most frequently in diabetics who do not have blood glucose controlor in diagbetics who have either not yet been diagnosed or who have been diagnosed incorrectly, such as with LADA or MODY as these two types are often misdiagnosed as Type 2 and not treated with insulin initially.

    In addition, the danger of hypoglycemia is greatly exaggerated in Type 2 diabetics unless they are using insulin or an insulin-stimulating drug. The liver is responsible for correcting hypoglycemia and can manufacture glucose from protein through a process called gluconeogenesis. From a health standpoint, carbs are unnecessary. The same cannot be said of fats and protein
  • mike_ny
    mike_ny Posts: 351 Member
    Blood cholesterol and triglyceride levels are due to genetics and lifestyle and not diet. Your body can make as much cholesterol as it wants regardless of what you eat. Doctors and the AMA are slow to change, but new studies are finding no credible links between fat intake and heart disease. There's a link between obesity and diseases, but not due to the fats themselves. There's also no real link between cholesterol and heart disease either since half of the people with heart disease don't have high cholesterol. A 50/50 chance is not a correlation.

    I've maintained about 50% or more of my calories from fat (much of it saturated) for over a year and have lost weight and dropped body fat and my blood work is better than it's ever been. My numbers are about as low as then can get. I also eat clean, run a slight calorie deficit, and stay active and get a few good workouts a week in. My numbers used to be in the high range, but that was when I was overweight, out of shape, and eating a low fat mostly carb based diet.

    As long as you burn your calories, sugar, fat, etc... are not problems. Burning fat as fuel is especially good because you don't get the insulin spikes that sugar and simple carbs give you and it's less efficient than carbs so you only net about 75% of the fat calories you eat minus any fats that are used as nutrients that never get burned at all.
  • skittlesnhoney
    skittlesnhoney Posts: 651 Member

    Sorry, but the diet itself isn't to blame for the problems these children had. I get much more calcium in my diet than I ever did trying the usual low fat/high fiber route. All diets come with caveats, and no one can eat anything they want. You just have to find ways of dealing with differences the diet presents. There are plenty of ways to increase vitamin and mineral intake, as well as providing special treats without going off the diet. When protein is controlled, the kidneys are protected. I realize the stress these parents are under, having been one myself, and as a special educator. I suspect that there are unexplored reasons the diet did not work in these cases.

    Oh I'm sure that their seizures and starting health and all of that factor in. But I felt like the OP should know what we are dealing with on a day-to-day basis. She should be supplied with as much information as possible before deciding on what she would like to do. And when she decides, that will be her decision to make.

    I have issues with yeast, sugar, and wheat and do have to choose my carbs from other options. And probably to some it would seem like a low carb diet as well. But I certainly don't eat as extreme as my student eats, and that is what I know of the ketogenic diet, from what I have to hand feed him.

    That's why I said I'm no expert! :)
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,479 Member
    does anyone else think that a diet that gives you a 'flu' is a good thing? I never understood why people want to torture themselves to lose weight when you can just eat in a calorie deficit and work out/move more….

    No, it's clear you don't understand the low carb diet, but that's OK as it doesn't suit you. So why not leave people that want to do it or discuss it alone ?

    People switching to low carb diets do eat less voluntarily, even when told to eat "ad lib". This has been documented countless times. The short term adaptation from a high carb diet to low carb does flush a lot of water and sodium out of your system, giving a temporary effect that is well known and easily avoided or mediated by eating more salt.

    "Working out" to many is a perverse activity that sounds more like torture than eating good quality food. The evidence that "moving more" is a viable weight loss technique is thin on the ground. As you would probably say "are you going to keep that up for the rest of your life ?" (not that you need to, because successful weight loss is an activity of limited duration).