HELP NEEDED! new to IIFYM
Options
Replies
-
A couple of points. OP....not a body builder. Nothing perfect about body building, just different. Most people arent willing to go to those lengths to achieve what they do. ( most dont really want that type of body) As far as the other wall of text......I am not really sure. What I do know is, IIFYM means If It Fits Your Macros you can eat it. So as far as IIFYM is concerned, which was the OP's original question by the way, there are no clean nor dirty foods. You have done an outstanding job with your transformation, everyone doesnt have the same goal as you.
Well, I wasn't specifically saying op has to follow a body building diet but the poster was saying "There is no such thing as dirty foods" which is untrue because there are foods that allow for you to get the leanest possible body in the fastest time. That is our goal as well, not just a bodybuilding goal. I was using bodybuilders contest prep diets as an example of why I don't agree with the sentiment that "Food is food is food" and it doesn't matter what you eat as long as it fits in your macros.
Let me just rephrase this question to challenge you and the poster and simply things.
If there is no such thing as "Dirty" or "Clean" foods, then why do bodybuilders (who have perfected the art of forming the human physique) eat only fish/poultry and rice/potato to get the leanest possible body in the shortest amount of time when prepping for a contest?
I dont want this to devolve into a semantical pissing contest and completely hijack the OP's thread. So I wont respond in this thread beyond this. As far as the OP's original question, bodybuilding and IIFYM have nothing in common. I dont agree that BB'ers perfect the human body and other that contest prep, they ( a collective they ) eat anything and everything. If you want to continue this debate, with me anyway, send me a message.0 -
Nope, I am suggesting that in the long run it will not be faster to immediately drop your calories as low as possible. If her TDEE slows down as a result of too low a deficit (either because of LBM loss or adaptive thermogenesis), then hypothetically she could see the same weight loss results in the same amount of time for fewer calories eaten.Man there is some decent people on these forums but I cannot stand the parroting garbage here. Why are you asking silly questions? You're literally asking me straight up "Why on earth would you recommend someone lose weight faster??"
Uhhh, because it doesn't take as long? Why would you go around the block when you could drive in a straight line?? Why would you walk when you can drive? Why would you drive when you can fly?? Why are we asking silly questions?? Are you actually legitimately trying to tell me that the 200 calories a day makes zero difference in the speed at which she would lose weight? 1600 calories is lots for her stats and regimen is plenty. It's enough to feel full and satiated, especially from the example of nutrient dense foods she's eating.
If she plateaus? Up cardio intensity? Try different types of cardio? (ie, HIIT etc.) Up cardio duration? Try low carb? Wait am I losing you here.. Keep up.. Try carb cycling? Try intermittent fasting? Try anything before lowering calories from diet. Since when did I ever mention lowering calories when she hits a plateau? That's you from your limited knowledge coming into play. I never said anything like that. Yes, you're right. Your suggestion to lower calories right off the bat when hitting a plateau is INSANE. I'm glad we both agree.
So, it may take just as long. But even if it doesn't take as long, you're assuming adherence for the lower calorie goal will be the same as the higher calorie goal, and it just isn't in the real world. If she can maintain the 1600 calorie regimen for 2 months, and the 1800 calorie regimen for a year, which one do you think she ends up losing more weight on (assuming both are a deficit-- which we can't know without trying for 4 weeks or so)? Unless the deficit at 1800 calories is less than 50 calories per day, sticking with the higher calorie limit for a year wins. And there's less chance that her LBM will decrease. And there's less chance of adaptive thermogenesis (depending again on the size of the deficit). And it's a lot more pleasant. It's not the difference between flying and driving a car; it's the difference between flying strapped naked to the outside of the plane without oxygen and driving a car.
And you cannot say what will be "plenty" and "enough to feel satiated" for any given person based on a number of calories and what kinds of foods they are made up of. Satiety is very much an individual thing.
You didn't lose me with that stuff. I have done all of those (except IF, because I would slaughter innocents if I had to skip meals) in the past at one time or another. Upping cardio intensity/duration have the same effect as dropping the calories eaten; they simply create a bigger deficit. So in that sense, you're simply suggesting to lower calories right off the bat when hitting a plateau. From a lean-mass preservation standpoint, I agree that trying HIIT is worthwhile, in terms of adherence, because if you can burn the same calories in 11 minutes that you can burn in 30 minutes, then most people will go for that. In a sense, you're just upping cardio intensity (although I believe there is more to the Tabata protocol as written than just that).0 -
A couple of points. OP....not a body builder. Nothing perfect about body building, just different. Most people arent willing to go to those lengths to achieve what they do. ( most dont really want that type of body) As far as the other wall of text......I am not really sure. What I do know is, IIFYM means If It Fits Your Macros you can eat it. So as far as IIFYM is concerned, which was the OP's original question by the way, there are no clean nor dirty foods. You have done an outstanding job with your transformation, everyone doesnt have the same goal as you.
Well, I wasn't specifically saying op has to follow a body building diet but the poster was saying "There is no such thing as dirty foods" which is untrue because there are foods that allow for you to get the leanest possible body in the fastest time. That is our goal as well, not just a bodybuilding goal. I was using bodybuilders contest prep diets as an example of why I don't agree with the sentiment that "Food is food is food" and it doesn't matter what you eat as long as it fits in your macros.
Let me just rephrase this question to challenge you and the poster and simplify things.
If there is no such thing as "Dirty" or "Clean" foods, then why do bodybuilders (who have perfected the art of forming the human physique) eat only fish/poultry and rice/potato to get the leanest possible body in the shortest amount of time when prepping for a contest?
Edit: Took it off thread, pm'd said poster as requested, no reply to the question in thread and no reply to the PM. Ask a hard question? Receive avoidance. :laugh:
Note to OP: Apologies for pooping a little on your thread. I feel like there's a ton of parroting from members here at MFP who have "heard" or "read" something on a blog or these forums. Once it's ingrained in them it's the ONLY way to do something. There's literally no other opinion that matters, they're so close minded to any other opinion or peoples own experiences. I would still stick to my original caloric goal number for a starting number, but again, entirely up to you, it's not going to make a huge difference in the overall result, would just take a little longer is all.
Good luck!
How does the cleanliness of a food effect rate of fat loss in the context of someone who is tracking their calorie and macronutrient intake?
The premise of flexible dieting is to eat a nutrient rich diet with macronutrient intake structured towards an individuals goal. The premise of flexible dieting is to eat mostly whole foods while allowing for a small percentage of discretionary calories.
Why do you believe that, given the above parameters, "cleanliness" of food matters as it pertains to rate of fat loss?0 -
So when you say that "'There is no such thing as dirty foods is untrue because..." that is what we call "moving the goalpost". In fact, you can't avoid this, because there is absolutely no way to objectively define "dirty food". Every food has advantages and disadvantages. Tuna has heavy metals, for example. Chicken breast may have a little residual skin/fat left on it. Spinach contains oxalates which make the iron and calcium less bioavailable. Should we all switch to a diet of nothing but BCAAs and multivitamin/multimineral pills and wash them down with liquid MCTs?Well, I wasn't specifically saying op has to follow a body building diet but the poster was saying "There is no such thing as dirty foods" which is untrue because there are foods that allow for you to get the leanest possible body in the fastest time. That is our goal as well, not just a bodybuilding goal. I was using bodybuilders contest prep diets as an example of why I don't agree with the sentiment that "Food is food is food" and it doesn't matter what you eat as long as it fits in your macros.
Let me just rephrase this question to challenge you and the poster and simplify things.
If there is no such thing as "Dirty" or "Clean" foods, then why do bodybuilders (who have perfected the art of forming the human physique) eat only fish/poultry and rice/potato to get the leanest possible body in the shortest amount of time when prepping for a contest?
Edit: Took it off thread, pm'd said poster as requested, no reply to the question in thread and no reply to the PM. Ask a hard question? Receive avoidance. :laugh:
Note to OP: Apologies for pooping a little on your thread. I feel like there's a ton of parroting from members here at MFP who have "heard" or "read" something on a blog or these forums. Once it's ingrained in them it's the ONLY way to do something. There's literally no other opinion that matters, they're so close minded to any other opinion or peoples own experiences. I would still stick to my original caloric goal number for a starting number, but again, entirely up to you, it's not going to make a huge difference in the overall result, would just take a little longer is all.
Good luck!
Now when you say "our goal as well", who is this "our"? Got a mouse in your pocket?
Having spent a fair amount of time around bodybuilders, I would say the choose to eat only fish/poultry and rice/potato because they're the most macro bang for the least calorie buck. I mean, that's the reason I eat those things. And then I have room for baked goods. Or the occasional order of fries. Or whatever.
I would also add that it is precisely from bodybuilders' cutting efforts that I learned not to immediately drop your calories as low as you can humanly stand, so that when your fat loss slows, you have somewhere left to cut.
I'm not parroting anything; this is accumulated experience of over 15 years of using various approaches in my own N=1 experiment.
For a given person, some amount of N=1 experimentation will be required. You measure, experiment, measure again, adjust based on results, and then repeat.0 -
There is no clean or dirty, only food...You don't have to eat "clean" to lose weight if you are being honest in your measuring. That's the point of IIFYM, eat whatever you want to meet those macro goals. Some seem to think that means eating a bunch of junk, but you would never hit your macros if you did. I eat pretty healthy during the day, but I still have cookies or ice cream daily.
I half agree with this at least, but again you're parroting from the "There is no dirty food, only food.." which I don't believe is true.
Who in a group of people knows better than ANY other group of people on how to perfect a human physique? Nutritionists who read some stuff in books? Dietitians? Doctors who read some stuff in books? Nope! Bodybuilder's who have been actually been hands-on perfecting the human physique for 75+ years. They don't read it in books, they legitimately DO it and they've perfected it to an art.
I'd say clean/dirty comes out to the old 80/20 rule. I think you could get away with losing weight for the *majority* of people successfully following the IIFYM and eating foods that are processed, manufactured garbage foods yes. Is it ideal and could it be done more efficiently? Faster? Yup which is why you see bodybuilders prepping 10.. 12.. 14 weeks out from a contest eating a very few specific foods ONLY. No ice cream, no burgers. Go search for a bodybuilders "contest prep diet". Google it. Keep in mind, these guys are on fat burners, thyroid meds, stims, growth hormone, AAS (hormones), insulin, peptides (IGF-1), etc. that entirely change what is even possible biologically and physiologically possible with the human body. Even yet, they eat chicken/fish, rice/potatoes and the odd green veggies. There is almost ZERO room for error when prepping for a contest. If there was no such thing as "dirty" foods to get as lean as possible, then why? Why don't they just eat Mexican? Italian? Home cooked meals? "As long as they're hitting their macros!" Nope. Because there IS such thing as a more efficient way to cut down to very lean states and it's by eating certain "clean" foods. White rice for example, while nutrient void is the cleanest carb source available. It's literally pure starch, no bloat from it at all. It's the #1 go-to carb source in the bodybuilding community.
Keep in mind I'm talking about when they're cutting down 4 - 6% body fat for contests but this is an example of why your "There is no such thing as dirty foods" is wrong.
uhh... there are a handful of successful natural bodybuilders that prep all the way up until show date with IIFYM.. As already stated the "cleanliness" of food doesn't make a difference.
If you can lose at a reasonable pace on a higher amount of calories you should definitely do so. ESPECIALLY if you dont have a deadline or date in mind.
You're a total brotard.0 -
The thing I don't get is, it seems like he doesn't see thatuhh... there are a handful of successful natural bodybuilders that prep all the way up until show date with IIFYM.. As already stated the "cleanliness" of food doesn't make a difference.
If you can lose at a reasonable pace on a higher amount of calories you should definitely do so. ESPECIALLY if you dont have a deadline or date in mind.
You're a total brotard.
Roman Numeral A. their macros will change if they cut carbs during a cut
and
fourthly. It's super-hard to hit those more restricted macro ratios with Italian, Mexican, soul food, whatever.
Also, people looking to reach a healthy weight/body fat are generally more successful when they change their diet for life, not adopt a temporary cutting program. Of course you don't have room for Chubby Hubby when you're on a competition cut or trying to make a weight class, but for Average Joe/Jane who's just trying to develop a sustainable relationship with food, there's nothing wrong with working it into your day.
It's not rocket science. But if you want to talk about rocket science, I'm fairly qualified to discuss the astrophysics and cosmology aspects of that.0 -
Not sure where you came up with that number but yes absolutely, I'd say female 5'2",126 lbs. at 1.8k that seems high if you're looking to slowly cut weight. Especially if you're eating "dirty" as they say. I'd suggest lowering your starting point at around 1600 calories and evaluate after 14 days. You're quite young which is HUGE but 1825 seems too high especially when doing IIFYM.
Thats my personal opinion.
First, I disagree. She is very active and doesn't have much to lose. I agree with ILiftHeavyAcrylics - why not try out the higher number that the calculator came up with for a while, and adjust up or down from there? It's always preferable to consume the maximum number of calories possible while maintaining a reasonable rate of loss. No sense in starting from a low point unnecessarily.
Second, you seem to misunderstand what IIFYM means. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with determining one's caloric intake goal. It's simply an approach to selecting foods that help you MEET your intake goal; it doesn't dictate the number itself.
Fantastic! Disagree to all your little hearts content. From my experience with training the few females i have her stats seem closer to maintenance.
Are you actually telling me I "misunderstand" IIFYM? I actually loled and could have woke up the person sleeping beside me, stop it. Don't be silly. Its not me who misunderstands anything its you who clearly misunderstands my post.
@op You have 2 options here. You can follow the coded built in JavaScript math calculator @ 1825 for 10-14 days and re-evaluate or you can lower the number and again see where that takes you in 10-14 days, adjust accordingly. Entirely up to you but I personally would set a starting point of 1600 for your stats and activity. Although clearly I somehow misunderstand "If it fits your macros" then eat it, it seems its super complicated.
why do you think that she would lose weight more quickly on 1800 "clean" calories, as opposed to 1800 "dirty" calories? this is what you implied in your first response.0 -
OP- it really comes down to trial and error. It will take some examining to see whether your actual activity levels are the same as what an online calculator says.
For what it's worth, I am always in favor of getting to enjoy more food, keeping up LBM and trying to prevent binging/making your choice as sustainable as possible. If you were having a hard time with lower calories and really strict food choices before, and the calculators suggest that you can still lose at a higher calorie count, it's worth trying.
Just to give you my experience- when I started losing weight I jumped in headfirst. Really low calories, lots of exercise- I lost weight fast, but I also burnt out pretty quickly. I was hungry and tired. I upped my calories- and kept losing. I had created an un-sustainably large calorie deficit. I kept losing weight even when I was eating somewhere between 1800-1950 calories a day. (I'm now 5'4" 128 lbs) Fast forward to now- I'm in maintenance, up to 2100 calories, and I'm still losing weight very very slowly. And you won't hear me complain about the extra food!
This isn't to say that you should automatically be eating more, but there's nothing wrong with trying to see what the maximum calorie count you can lose weight at is. Losing weight quickly can feel good, but if it makes you more likely to binge it's not worth it. Go for 2 or 3 weeks, even a month, and then re-evaluate to see whether you lose, gain or maintain. Be sure to give your body time to adapt, and then decide what to do! :flowerforyou:0 -
subscribed.0
-
thank you all for you comments and advise.
i have decided to go with 1717 calories a day, this is closer to what i was eating on my boring meal plan. yesterday was my first day at these calories and it felt like a good amount of food i wasn't left feeling hungry or overly full. i will stick to this for the next two weeks and then review it. i will let you all know how it goes .
:happy:0 -
thank you all for you comments and advise.
i have decided to go with 1717 calories a day, this is closer to what i was eating on my boring meal plan. yesterday was my first day at these calories and it felt like a good amount of food i wasn't left feeling hungry or overly full. i will stick to this for the next two weeks and then review it. i will let you all know how it goes .
:happy:
Solid0 -
thank you all for you comments and advise.
i have decided to go with 1717 calories a day, this is closer to what i was eating on my boring meal plan. yesterday was my first day at these calories and it felt like a good amount of food i wasn't left feeling hungry or overly full. i will stick to this for the next two weeks and then review it. i will let you all know how it goes .
:happy:
Solid
meaning?0 -
thank you all for you comments and advise.
i have decided to go with 1717 calories a day, this is closer to what i was eating on my boring meal plan. yesterday was my first day at these calories and it felt like a good amount of food i wasn't left feeling hungry or overly full. i will stick to this for the next two weeks and then review it. i will let you all know how it goes .
:happy:
Solid
meaning?
It means it's a good plan.0 -
thank you all for you comments and advise.
i have decided to go with 1717 calories a day, this is closer to what i was eating on my boring meal plan. yesterday was my first day at these calories and it felt like a good amount of food i wasn't left feeling hungry or overly full. i will stick to this for the next two weeks and then review it. i will let you all know how it goes .
:happy:
Solid
meaning?
It means it's a good plan.
Ah good was slightly confused then haha0 -
Does anybody know what the effect of not hitting my macros correctly on one day. Eg. Too much carb not enough fat?0
-
You can make up for it on the other days. Or just accept you didn't hit it that day and move on. It's not a big deal in the long run if you occasionally don't.0
-
Oh that's great thank you0
-
I personally turn into a pumpkin if I don't get *exactly* 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight! :laugh: Or, actually, I don't... because I shoot for such a high target, I know it's no big deal if I don't make it exactly. :happy:You can make up for it on the other days. Or just accept you didn't hit it that day and move on. It's not a big deal in the long run if you occasionally don't.0 -
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/damonbrent/view/myfitnesspal-google-chrome-extension-617102
Download this app for chrome then after you install open mfp on another tab(chrome). It will let you change macros % by 1% increments. Have fun!0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.1K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.9K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.4K Fitness and Exercise
- 403 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions