The 'Fat Acceptance' Movement
Replies
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Even skinny and/or fit people can have undetected health issues, I acknowledge this. I'm just saying by choosing consciously to be overweight and stay that way, without regard for the effects, is irresponsible. Fat acceptance blogs advocate that there is no need to lose weight, and deny the reality that extra weight can jeopardize their health.
To be fair, I have yet to read an article that advocates being obese is a healthy choice as a general matter. Now, I don't read a lot of blogs, but I suspect I would have seen such a post linked/mocked given the forums I typically frequent. Is it possible for an overweight person to be in generally good health? Yes, I think it is. As a general matter, is being overweight/obese healthy? No, and I have never seen anyone suggest as much.
All that said, it's clear that not everyone prioritizes their health, at least not until they "need" to. Actually, I'd say it's a minority of people that are truly health conscious. So, if health isn't your priority, you hate dieting and you're all-around happier being overweight and eating a certain way, I say go for it (as long as I don't have to foot the bill). Is it the optimal choice for their health? Of course not. But how many people have a few drinks on the weekend, smoke the occasional cigar, forget to floss daily, and on and on? The average person makes plenty of decisions that are not optimal for their health, knowingly, and yet we make these "unhealthy" decisions because it's all about balance and finding ways to enjoy life.
So, is there a "need" to lose weight? I'd say it depends on the person's priorities but it's their call to make.
A lot of the blogs that we are discussing here advocate being overweight and obese as a good thing. They ENCOURAGE weight gain because they believe that only overweight people are attractive. Clearly you have never come across one before, which makes you lucky.
Can you direct me to one that encourages people to gain weight that also has a large following? I have never seen one and I have read body positive blogs. The ones I read are about encouraging self esteem and acceptance of themselves.0 -
YES. The problem with blacks, gays, and the mentally retarded is totally that they're not standing up for themselves. If only they would get out there and fight prejudice instead of waiting for others to do it for them, everything would be fine.As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them0 -
The Fat Acceptance movement makes me very happy
too long have fat people been seen as the butt of every joke , too long are fat people meant to feel like worthless ugly "unhealthy" and un worthy people
fat acceptance is very important , less self hate more self love no matter what you look like. period. no bull**** "but its glorifying, but its unhealthy" what that sounds like to me is "but its so unappealing to my eyes everyone should be appealing to my eyes" no one actually gives a single **** about the health of peoples bodies most only care about appearance
but they want to act all concerned...cause you know..health and ****0 -
People should be healthy. They should be active. They should eat fruits and vegetable and maintain a balanced diet.
People should not yo-yo diet. It's worse for you than being overweight. People should not be morbidly obese. They should not be dangerously thin.
That being said, judging a specific person for the choices you assume they are making is stupid. You don't know what is going on in their lives.
For example, if many people saw Holley Mangold eating two quarter pounders and a large fries in McDonalds, they'd assume that she lacked self-control and was killing herself through poor choices. They probably wouldn't register her as an Olympic level athlete.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1285642-holley-mangold-competes-in-womens-weightlifting-at-2012-london-olympics
EXACTLY.
She came in 10th despite outweighing many other contestants by 150lbs+, Oly level athlete? Or pathetic US lifting team with low standards?0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
But none of that has to do with what she said. You are making a general assumption about her for discussing a topic that somebody else started. Why don't you start a discussion of those other things and maybe she will give you her thoughts. Her point still stands, the test the women took doesn't give the whole picture of her totally body health. I'm overweight, and my blood panel has always been good. My knees on the other hand who knows. My EKG's where always fine, but maybe I have clogged arteries.
i agree. but i don't think the average lay-poster would be able to tell you anything significant about your knees or arteries based on the hastily assessed circumference of your ribcage, and you would probably think it very strange if he or she attempted to do so.
Pretty sure that isn't what she was doing. She was just making the point that there is more to the story than just your blood panel as to weather you are healthy or not.0 -
Every single member of this forum is here because they don't want to live with their personal degree of fatness and want to change/ improve their health...
As members we don't accept the way we are so if we cant accept our own " fatness" why would any of us accept it in others !0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
Even skinny and/or fit people can have undetected health issues, I acknowledge this. I'm just saying by choosing consciously to be overweight and stay that way, without regard for the effects, is irresponsible. Fat acceptance blogs advocate that there is no need to lose weight, and deny the reality that extra weight can jeopardize their health.
why limit this to the overweight? or even specifically just weight? or appearance? there are several more reliable indicators, such as lifestyle/behaviour; body composition; etc. further, why go so far as to draw conclusions on the health status of strangers at all? my argument is that the focus on size is largely (hah! see what i did there?) socially driven concern trolling.
Probably because this thread is about fat acceptance. Not drug use or any of that other stuff. And on top of all of this, I will never bully or be rude to someone because of their size. I just don't believe they are healthy. If that's considered fat shaming, I'm guilty.
Ok, your initial comment about being 30 lbs overweight as being unhealthy irritated me, so I just want to clarify that it's actually what you meant, because 30 lbs seems like an arbitrary number. Do mean 30 lbs over what someone weighed initially, or 30 lbs over what is considered a healthy weight range for their height? Because depending on where they started, 30 lbs could mean they are still within a healthy weight range, a few pounds over healthy, or it could have them pushing a BMI in the obese range.
There would be significant differences in a person's health depending on where they fall. Technically right now, I'm 30 lbs over my goal weight, but only 5lbs away from being in the healthy weight range for my height, so it kind of bugged me to hear you say that I'm unhealthy. Yep, it was personal for me, I'm owning it.0 -
Body shaming isn't right, but telling someone that they have too much body fat and it's putting them at risk of health problems isn't body shaming. Fact is, body fat levels above a certain amount is not healthy.
I don't think people should just accept unhealthy body composition, but I think there's an issue in that the focus has always been on people who are very fat (pardon the term, because there are different kinds of obesity so the word obese wouldn't be accurate in that sentence, keep reading....) whereas unhealthy body composition can also affect thin people. For example, being underweight (for your frame size, not necessarily in terms of BMI) is not healthy either. And having normal-weight obesity (sometimes referred to as skinny-fat, although this term is abused), i.e. when your BMI is in the healthy range but your body fat percentage is in the obese range, is far from healthy. That's my point re the over-focus on fat people when it comes to discussion about body composition and health. Thin people can also have very unhealthy body composition. In the case of normal-weight obesity, the person's actually at risk of some of the same health problems as obese people combined with some health problems of underweight people, because they are underweight in terms of muscle mass and bone density, while also carrying too much body fat. These even each other out and the result is a "healthy" BMI.... but they're far from healthy.
No-one should accept unhealthy body composition as the status quo, and everyone should be pro-active about their health. That doesn't mean everyone has to be an athlete... just that they should be active, eat the nutrition their body needs, and maintain a healthy body fat percentage AND a decent amount of lean mass for their frame size. It's not hard to maintain... although for some who already have bad body composition, it can be very hard to get there... but it's worth striving for, it's your life and your health that's at stake.
Rather than framing this question as "fat acceptance" - really it should be framed as "bad body composition acceptance" (or preferably non-acceptance) and apply it to everyone, not just those who look fat. It worries me how many people who are sedentary, eat a very unbalanced diet, skip meals or do crash diets to stay thin, but think that they're healthy just because their BMI is in the healthy range. Then people wonder why you get a lot of thin people who get type 2 diabetes and heart disease.0 -
The Fat Acceptance movement makes me very happy
too long have fat people been seen as the butt of every joke , too long are fat people meant to feel like worthless ugly "unhealthy" and un worthy people
fat acceptance is very important , less self hate more self love no matter what you look like. period. no bull**** "but its glorifying, but its unhealthy" what that sounds like to me is "but its so unappealing to my eyes everyone should be appealing to my eyes" no one actually gives a single **** about the health of peoples bodies most only care about appearance
but they want to act all concerned...cause you know..health and ****
Would you say exactly the same thing about Pro-Anorexia websites? They also sell it as a 'lifestyle choice' while maintaining that their diets are healthy. They too can stay active for several years before getting physical problems.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
But none of that has to do with what she said. You are making a general assumption about her for discussing a topic that somebody else started. Why don't you start a discussion of those other things and maybe she will give you her thoughts. Her point still stands, the test the women took doesn't give the whole picture of her totally body health. I'm overweight, and my blood panel has always been good. My knees on the other hand who knows. My EKG's where always fine, but maybe I have clogged arteries.
i agree. but i don't think the average lay-poster would be able to tell you anything significant about your knees or arteries based on the hastily assessed circumference of your ribcage, and you would probably think it very strange if he or she attempted to do so.
Pretty sure that isn't what she was doing. She was just making the point that there is more to the story than just your blood panel as to weather you are healthy or not.
right. and my agreement with that point is clearly stated above. size can be one metric, but it's not a particularly useful one, especially when not considered in conjunction with a myriad of other, more specific and reliable, factors. my frustration stems from the assumption that the remainder of the fat person's health story must surely be riddled with ailments, because fat. would that same, common, assumption be made in relation to someone of a more socially acceptable size/appearance? have you ever thought to yourself "sure, this average-sized person's blood pressure is a wonderland, but i bet his knees are totally shot because average"? do you concern yourself with the possible invisible health issues of any population other than fat people?0 -
Fat hatred is one of last social acceptable forms of prejudice. I don't feel that the fat acceptance movement preaches for everyone to gain weight it's just about equality. So many people think because they were able to take control and lose weight that it is just as easy for everybody else and they are clearly just not as dedicated. There are far too many other factors at play to simply deem them lazy, greedy and all the other slurs that get thrown about on a daily basis. Of the course there are those who are overweight and don't give a crap but still we are all human beings. Most people are not stupid, they know it's unhealthy, it's just so hard sometimes. I'm a lover not a hater : )0
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Every single member of this forum is here because they don't want to live with their personal degree of fatness and want to change/ improve their health...
As members we don't accept the way we are so if we cant accept our own " fatness" why would any of us accept it in others !
Not true. Some people are on here managing eating disorders and a number of people are athletes who use the tools to bulk/cut.0 -
I will not be forced into accepting anybody, fat, thin or otherwise!! Nor will I be shamed into changing just so I don't 'offend' anyone else with something so personal as my weight! You can't judge the struggle just by looking at me and you can't assume that I am doing nothing to change it. I do not accept 'The Fat Acceptance Movement' That is my CHOICE. I also do not judge anyone who does accept it. That is your CHOICE.0
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YES. The problem with blacks, gays, and the mentally retarded is totally that they're not standing up for themselves. If only they would get out there and fight prejudice instead of waiting for others to do it for them, everything would be fine.As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them
Or, you know, they might be firebombed. Like has actually happened in history.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
I really hate this excuse. "But my blood work is fine!" Im sure it is, for now. I smoke. I eat way too much salt. I may be fine now, but that doesnt mean my habits are healthy. If I dont quit smoking, it will mean a premature death. My lungs will suffer. My salt in take will cause problems, despite me being healthy right now. If you remain iverweight, your health WILL suffer. Being overweight is an unhealthy habit and you will have to pay the piper eventually.0 -
All in all, it is a defense mechanism against being relentlessly scrutinized and harassed.0
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I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
But none of that has to do with what she said. You are making a general assumption about her for discussing a topic that somebody else started. Why don't you start a discussion of those other things and maybe she will give you her thoughts. Her point still stands, the test the women took doesn't give the whole picture of her totally body health. I'm overweight, and my blood panel has always been good. My knees on the other hand who knows. My EKG's where always fine, but maybe I have clogged arteries.
i agree. but i don't think the average lay-poster would be able to tell you anything significant about your knees or arteries based on the hastily assessed circumference of your ribcage, and you would probably think it very strange if he or she attempted to do so.
Pretty sure that isn't what she was doing. She was just making the point that there is more to the story than just your blood panel as to weather you are healthy or not.
right. and my agreement with that point is clearly stated above. size can be one metric, but it's not a particularly useful one, especially when not considered in conjunction with a myriad of other, more specific and reliable, factors. my frustration stems from the assumption that the remainder of the fat person's health story must surely be riddled with ailments, because fat. would that same, common, assumption be made in relation to someone of a more socially acceptable size/appearance? have you ever thought to yourself "sure, this average-sized person's blood pressure is a wonderland, but i bet his knees are totally shot because average"? do you concern yourself with the possible invisible health issues of any other population other than fat people?
Well since being on this site, and losing weight, I make assumptions about all people all the time for some reason, but that is my own problem. It still has nothing to do with what she said. She was commenting on somebody who willingly gave their stats, not about some random person walking by, so what you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with the comment she made. She didn't assume that person had bad knees, or her organs were failing, she just said that the posters blood test don't show the whole picture of health. Since you agree that her point is correct, and we were never talking about some random person on the street, I don't why you keep pulling randomness out of the air. Would you think a dog with three legs can't walk up stairs, because the op had her blood drawn?0 -
The Fat Acceptance movement makes me very happy
too long have fat people been seen as the butt of every joke , too long are fat people meant to feel like worthless ugly "unhealthy" and un worthy people
fat acceptance is very important , less self hate more self love no matter what you look like. period. no bull**** "but its glorifying, but its unhealthy" what that sounds like to me is "but its so unappealing to my eyes everyone should be appealing to my eyes" no one actually gives a single **** about the health of peoples bodies most only care about appearance
but they want to act all concerned...cause you know..health and ****
Would you say exactly the same thing about Pro-Anorexia websites? They also sell it as a 'lifestyle choice' while maintaining that their diets are healthy. They too can stay active for several years before getting physical problems.
Pro ana websites encourage others to follow very dangerous diets. I personally have never seen a fat acceptance website encourage others to put on weight. They tend to just put their image out there, which seems to upset some people. If someone struggling with anorexia wanted to put their thoughts out there on a blog, as long as they were not encouraging others to follow a dangerous diet, why shouldn't they have a blog or website? I have asked for evidence of a mainstream blog or website that encourages unhealthy weight gain, but no one has provided one.0 -
To a certain point, being overweight is not a problem. In that sense, mocking the marginally "fat" is awful. Women or men who are a little bit chubby and fully happy with how they look at their lifestyle, as well as their health - both proven and perceived - deserve to be celebrated just as much as "athletic" and "fit" people.
I don't feel that obese people should be mocked either, I'll make that clear, but I really don't think it should be deemed acceptable in any sense if it significantly affects or potentially will affect your health.
Thiiiiiiiis :flowerforyou:0 -
yes
I also disagree with "fat acceptance" being comparable to embracing one's race, sexuality, etc. Not the same thing in the slightest.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
But none of that has to do with what she said. You are making a general assumption about her for discussing a topic that somebody else started. Why don't you start a discussion of those other things and maybe she will give you her thoughts. Her point still stands, the test the women took doesn't give the whole picture of her totally body health. I'm overweight, and my blood panel has always been good. My knees on the other hand who knows. My EKG's where always fine, but maybe I have clogged arteries.
i agree. but i don't think the average lay-poster would be able to tell you anything significant about your knees or arteries based on the hastily assessed circumference of your ribcage, and you would probably think it very strange if he or she attempted to do so.
Pretty sure that isn't what she was doing. She was just making the point that there is more to the story than just your blood panel as to weather you are healthy or not.
right. and my agreement with that point is clearly stated above. size can be one metric, but it's not a particularly useful one, especially when not considered in conjunction with a myriad of other, more specific and reliable, factors. my frustration stems from the assumption that the remainder of the fat person's health story must surely be riddled with ailments, because fat. would that same, common, assumption be made in relation to someone of a more socially acceptable size/appearance? have you ever thought to yourself "sure, this average-sized person's blood pressure is a wonderland, but i bet his knees are totally shot because average"? do you concern yourself with the possible invisible health issues of any other population other than fat people?
Well since being on this site, and losing weight, I make assumptions about all people all the time for some reason, but that is my own problem. It still has nothing to do with what she said. She was commenting on somebody who willingly gave their stats, not about some random person walking by, so what you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with the comment she made. She didn't assume that person had bad knees, or her organs were failing, she just said that the posters blood test don't show the whole picture of health. Since you agree that her point is correct, and we were never talking about some random person on the street, I don't why you keep pulling randomness out of the air. Would you think a dog with three legs can't walk up stairs, because the op had her blood drawn?
no more than i would assume the dog had three legs as a consequence of obesity.0 -
People should be healthy. They should be active. They should eat fruits and vegetable and maintain a balanced diet.
People should not yo-yo diet. It's worse for you than being overweight. People should not be morbidly obese. They should not be dangerously thin.
That being said, judging a specific person for the choices you assume they are making is stupid. You don't know what is going on in their lives.
For example, if many people saw Holley Mangold eating two quarter pounders and a large fries in McDonalds, they'd assume that she lacked self-control and was killing herself through poor choices. They probably wouldn't register her as an Olympic level athlete.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1285642-holley-mangold-competes-in-womens-weightlifting-at-2012-london-olympics
EXACTLY.
She came in 10th despite outweighing many other contestants by 150lbs+, Oly level athlete? Or pathetic US lifting team with low standards?
She's still an athlete.0 -
To a certain point, being overweight is not a problem. In that sense, mocking the marginally "fat" is awful. Women or men who are a little bit chubby and fully happy with how they look at their lifestyle, as well as their health - both proven and perceived - deserve to be celebrated just as much as "athletic" and "fit" people.
I don't feel that obese people should be mocked either, I'll make that clear, but I really don't think it should be deemed acceptable in any sense if it significantly affects or potentially will affect your health.
THis. Health is not a weight, or a body size or shape.
You can be overweight, and perfectly healthy. You can be "the picture of health" in a physical sense, and horribly unhealthy.
Wrestlers in peak physical condition whose hearts explode are a prime example of that.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
But none of that has to do with what she said. You are making a general assumption about her for discussing a topic that somebody else started. Why don't you start a discussion of those other things and maybe she will give you her thoughts. Her point still stands, the test the women took doesn't give the whole picture of her totally body health. I'm overweight, and my blood panel has always been good. My knees on the other hand who knows. My EKG's where always fine, but maybe I have clogged arteries.
i agree. but i don't think the average lay-poster would be able to tell you anything significant about your knees or arteries based on the hastily assessed circumference of your ribcage, and you would probably think it very strange if he or she attempted to do so.
Pretty sure that isn't what she was doing. She was just making the point that there is more to the story than just your blood panel as to weather you are healthy or not.
right. and my agreement with that point is clearly stated above. size can be one metric, but it's not a particularly useful one, especially when not considered in conjunction with a myriad of other, more specific and reliable, factors. my frustration stems from the assumption that the remainder of the fat person's health story must surely be riddled with ailments, because fat. would that same, common, assumption be made in relation to someone of a more socially acceptable size/appearance? have you ever thought to yourself "sure, this average-sized person's blood pressure is a wonderland, but i bet his knees are totally shot because average"? do you concern yourself with the possible invisible health issues of any other population other than fat people?
Well since being on this site, and losing weight, I make assumptions about all people all the time for some reason, but that is my own problem. It still has nothing to do with what she said. She was commenting on somebody who willingly gave their stats, not about some random person walking by, so what you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with the comment she made. She didn't assume that person had bad knees, or her organs were failing, she just said that the posters blood test don't show the whole picture of health. Since you agree that her point is correct, and we were never talking about some random person on the street, I don't why you keep pulling randomness out of the air. Would you think a dog with three legs can't walk up stairs, because the op had her blood drawn?
no more than i would assume the dog had three legs as a consequence of obesity.
exactly, and since nobody else made assumptions there was really no point to your argument.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
I really hate this excuse. "But my blood work is fine!" Im sure it is, for now. I smoke. I eat way too much salt. I may be fine now, but that doesnt mean my habits are healthy. If I dont quit smoking, it will mean a premature death. My lungs will suffer. My salt in take will cause problems, despite me being healthy right now. If you remain iverweight, your health WILL suffer. Being overweight is an unhealthy habit and you will have to pay the piper eventually.
Whereas being at what many here consider to be a "healthy" weight, with unnaturally low levels of body fat, robs your body of much of it's ability to fight chronic disease.
It's a tradeoff, and neither are guaranteed to help, nor hinder, in the long run.0 -
Body shaming isn't right, but telling someone that they have too much body fat and it's putting them at risk of health problems isn't body shaming. Fact is, body fat levels above a certain amount is not healthy.
I don't think people should just accept unhealthy body composition, but I think there's an issue in that the focus has always been on people who are very fat (pardon the term, because there are different kinds of obesity so the word obese wouldn't be accurate in that sentence, keep reading....) whereas unhealthy body composition can also affect thin people. For example, being underweight (for your frame size, not necessarily in terms of BMI) is not healthy either. And having normal-weight obesity (sometimes referred to as skinny-fat, although this term is abused), i.e. when your BMI is in the healthy range but your body fat percentage is in the obese range, is far from healthy. That's my point re the over-focus on fat people when it comes to discussion about body composition and health. Thin people can also have very unhealthy body composition. In the case of normal-weight obesity, the person's actually at risk of some of the same health problems as obese people combined with some health problems of underweight people, because they are underweight in terms of muscle mass and bone density, while also carrying too much body fat. These even each other out and the result is a "healthy" BMI.... but they're far from healthy.
No-one should accept unhealthy body composition as the status quo, and everyone should be pro-active about their health. That doesn't mean everyone has to be an athlete... just that they should be active, eat the nutrition their body needs, and maintain a healthy body fat percentage AND a decent amount of lean mass for their frame size. It's not hard to maintain... although for some who already have bad body composition, it can be very hard to get there... but it's worth striving for, it's your life and your health that's at stake.
Rather than framing this question as "fat acceptance" - really it should be framed as "bad body composition acceptance" (or preferably non-acceptance) and apply it to everyone, not just those who look fat. It worries me how many people who are sedentary, eat a very unbalanced diet, skip meals or do crash diets to stay thin, but think that they're healthy just because their BMI is in the healthy range. Then people wonder why you get a lot of thin people who get type 2 diabetes and heart disease.
Yep.
I couldn't tell you how many times I've had people assume that they are healthy simply because they are thin, then have a rude awakening when they try to jog around the block.
I'm fat. I have conditioned my body to be able to run for 14 miles. I lift to increase bone density and muscle mass. My diet tends to be well-roundedish. Sort of. Mostly. My blood panels are excellent, as is my blood pressure and heartrate. I have done certain things to help mitigate my risk. But, I'm not kidding myself that carrying a lot of extra weight doesn't impact my health risk. It's not the only piece to being healthy, but it is a piece.
Many people fall under the illusion that weight is the only thing that matters, or that it doesn't matter at all. Both are wrong.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
You blood panel doesn't tell you how much pressure is being put on your joints, or what visceral fat is doing to your organs.
nor does the blood panel of a thin person relay any information regarding bone density. what's your point?
How is her point not obvious, and where did she say anything about thin women being healthy? Don't be mad that she is right even if it pertains to you.
ablah? her post implied that accepted medical test results indicating good health are possibly not providing a full picture of patient health. as far as that goes, i agree, however assuming that someone fat *must* have secret undetected health problems based entirely on a socially determined appearance ideal is illogical. for what it's worth (which is not much) i'm not angry, and this isn't personal. i'm a conventionally attractive woman (so many unfounded assumptions!)... can you look at my symmetrical bone structure and postulate about the condition of my various and complex biological systems? does that single factor tell you anything useful about my mental health?
with respect to the population-borne cost of obesity related health care, it's a slippery slope: for example, do we restrict access for people who run long distances because they are statistically more likely to suffer overuse injuries? call me canadian, but i'm a fan of socialized, subsidized and accessible health care for everyone--not just the individuals who think and choose in accordance with my personal values.
But none of that has to do with what she said. You are making a general assumption about her for discussing a topic that somebody else started. Why don't you start a discussion of those other things and maybe she will give you her thoughts. Her point still stands, the test the women took doesn't give the whole picture of her totally body health. I'm overweight, and my blood panel has always been good. My knees on the other hand who knows. My EKG's where always fine, but maybe I have clogged arteries.
i agree. but i don't think the average lay-poster would be able to tell you anything significant about your knees or arteries based on the hastily assessed circumference of your ribcage, and you would probably think it very strange if he or she attempted to do so.
Pretty sure that isn't what she was doing. She was just making the point that there is more to the story than just your blood panel as to weather you are healthy or not.
right. and my agreement with that point is clearly stated above. size can be one metric, but it's not a particularly useful one, especially when not considered in conjunction with a myriad of other, more specific and reliable, factors. my frustration stems from the assumption that the remainder of the fat person's health story must surely be riddled with ailments, because fat. would that same, common, assumption be made in relation to someone of a more socially acceptable size/appearance? have you ever thought to yourself "sure, this average-sized person's blood pressure is a wonderland, but i bet his knees are totally shot because average"? do you concern yourself with the possible invisible health issues of any other population other than fat people?
Well since being on this site, and losing weight, I make assumptions about all people all the time for some reason, but that is my own problem. It still has nothing to do with what she said. She was commenting on somebody who willingly gave their stats, not about some random person walking by, so what you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with the comment she made. She didn't assume that person had bad knees, or her organs were failing, she just said that the posters blood test don't show the whole picture of health. Since you agree that her point is correct, and we were never talking about some random person on the street, I don't why you keep pulling randomness out of the air. Would you think a dog with three legs can't walk up stairs, because the op had her blood drawn?
no more than i would assume the dog had three legs as a consequence of obesity.
exactly, and since nobody else made assumptions there was really no point to your argument.
it seems we are too far apart to understand one another. godspeed, brah.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
I really hate this excuse. "But my blood work is fine!" Im sure it is, for now. I smoke. I eat way too much salt. I may be fine now, but that doesnt mean my habits are healthy. If I dont quit smoking, it will mean a premature death. My lungs will suffer. My salt in take will cause problems, despite me being healthy right now. If you remain iverweight, your health WILL suffer. Being overweight is an unhealthy habit and you will have to pay the piper eventually.
Whereas being at what many here consider to be a "healthy" weight, with unnaturally low levels of body fat, robs your body of much of it's ability to fight chronic disease.
It's a tradeoff, and neither are guaranteed to help, nor hinder, in the long run.
Women who maintain a "low healthy" body fat are actually have greater health risks (as a population) than women who are in the "high healthy" body fat range.0 -
it is a free country .if you want to be fat, be fat; you want to be thin, be thin; but when you get sick or unhealthy from either condition just don't expect me to foot the bill...
This is interesting, and kind of startling. I remember hearing about it a while ago:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/
What it boils down to is that the lifetime medical costs of smokers and obese populations is actually lower...............because as a group they die sooner.
While there are many arguments against obesity, and the cost is huge, it's not monetary. We all get sick and die (thereby costing the system money), it's a matter of when.
Personally, I'm out to cost the system much more than I otherwise would by staying healthy longer. :flowerforyou:0 -
People should be healthy. They should be active. They should eat fruits and vegetable and maintain a balanced diet.
People should not yo-yo diet. It's worse for you than being overweight. People should not be morbidly obese. They should not be dangerously thin.
That being said, judging a specific person for the choices you assume they are making is stupid. You don't know what is going on in their lives.
For example, if many people saw Holley Mangold eating two quarter pounders and a large fries in McDonalds, they'd assume that she lacked self-control and was killing herself through poor choices. They probably wouldn't register her as an Olympic level athlete.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1285642-holley-mangold-competes-in-womens-weightlifting-at-2012-london-olympics
EXACTLY.
She came in 10th despite outweighing many other contestants by 150lbs+, Oly level athlete? Or pathetic US lifting team with low standards?
She's still an athlete.
So's the fattest, slowest defensive lineman on the worst college team in the country. That doesn't mean he should be celebrated as a paragon of health while obese.0
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