The 'Fat Acceptance' Movement
Replies
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Fat women have the right to feel good about themselves, just like everyone. However they need to stop "normalizing" being overweight, glorifying it even. First of all they are shaming every other body type while whining about being body shamed which is beyond annoying. And second of all they are huge "health at any size" advocates. I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
I agree and I was almost 80 lbs overweight. No, I should not feel bad about my body and no I don't think it's right to make fun of people overweight, however, being overweight is not healthy! It's not good for you! I agree, it should not be normalized.
^ This ^
When a person is so overweight their legs turn purple if they are standing for more than 10mins they are just in denial by saying they are 'curvy'.0 -
Being over-weight is just like being a smoker, except tobacco companies failed at infecting the majority as the food industry has.
Those things are not the same at all. Food is needed to live. Food is not an infection. Food doesn't cause disease. Cigarettes are not needed to live. Cigarettes cause disease. Your analogy is very poor.
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
Who told you that? The companies that pay "scientists" to conduct biased, uncontrolled research so they can sell diet pills? What foods cause disease? What diseases do these foods cause? Do you have sources for that statement?
The same "scientists' who figured out that smoking is bad for you, water is wet, and rocks are typically hard.
Yes, yes, correlation is not causation. Only most of the people hit in the head with a hammer die, so it's not the hammer that does it.
Being more than moderately overweight (and no, I don't mean a size 4) is implicated in heart disease, joint damage, diabetes, apnea, and a whole bunch of other things.0 -
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
You are just wrong.
Food does not cause disease. What causes disease is either a) viruses or bacteria growing on food, or b) extremely high consumption of one particular type of food. Again: food does not cause disease. Food is essential for avoiding death.
Being overweight does not cause disease (BTW over *what* weight??). Excess fat is often shown to be correlated with poor health but when you control for lifestyle factors (poor diet / lack of exercise / access to health care / socioeconomic level, etc) fatness itself does not cause you to be unhealthy. There is, in fact, evidence that being overweight is actually associated with lower rates of mortality (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137).0 -
The same exact scientists? Well I'll be, ain't that something. I'll assume they're the same scientists who said that blacks were genetically inferior to whites. Or the scientists who said gay people have a mental illness. Or maybe the scientists who helped justify the Holocaust? Ohhh wait, I bet you mean different scientists...Being over-weight is just like being a smoker, except tobacco companies failed at infecting the majority as the food industry has.
Those things are not the same at all. Food is needed to live. Food is not an infection. Food doesn't cause disease. Cigarettes are not needed to live. Cigarettes cause disease. Your analogy is very poor.
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
Who told you that? The companies that pay "scientists" to conduct biased, uncontrolled research so they can sell diet pills? What foods cause disease? What diseases do these foods cause? Do you have sources for that statement?
The same "scientists' who figured out that smoking is bad for you, water is wet, and rocks are typically hard.
Yes, yes, correlation is not causation. Only most of the people hit in the head with a hammer die, so it's not the hammer that does it.
Being more than moderately overweight (and no, I don't mean a size 4) is implicated in heart disease, joint damage, diabetes, apnea, and a whole bunch of other things.
Don't believe everything you hear on the news and read in your little diet books - it's all a business. I'm not talking correlation vs. causation, I'm talking about the billion dollar companies that benefit off of falsifying research to make money off of YOU. Yes, they do it, and yes, they will happily take your money even if it means plugging millions into fake research. Don't think money can't buy everything, because it can and it does. After working in research labs, I've seen how researchers will write down fake data to receive that $1M grant or a brand new laboratory. Don't think these "scientists" are all moral - even morals can be bought for the right price.0 -
Being over-weight is just like being a smoker, except tobacco companies failed at infecting the majority as the food industry has.
Those things are not the same at all. Food is needed to live. Food is not an infection. Food doesn't cause disease. Cigarettes are not needed to live. Cigarettes cause disease. Your analogy is very poor.
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
Who told you that? The companies that pay "scientists" to conduct biased, uncontrolled research so they can sell diet pills? What foods cause disease? What diseases do these foods cause? Do you have sources for that statement?
Are you trying to tell me that saturated fats dont contribute heart disease? That refined sugars dont contribute type two diabetes? Or that salt doesnt cause high blood pressure?
Or that excess weight doesnt cause degenerative disk disease? Or other joint problems and chronic inflammation?0 -
As an obese woman I can say that fat hate really hurts. I think the movement is more toward "accept them" but I don't think it is okay to normalize obesity. It is an epidemic and it is something that we need to take care of.0
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i don't think there should be a Fat Acceptance movement.
But I do think there should be some serious gains made in helping women of ALL sizes to love themselves.
These acceptance movements come out of a need for women (and Men) to love themselves and not vilify their own bodies.
Personally, I think if you can truly, well and truly, learn to love yourself, you will learn and love to have you at your best you...
which means healthy and FIT.
screw the acceptance....we need to learn to love ourselves.
We just need to accept ourselves and each other. No labels necessary, just respecting our own and each other's bodies. This is a long time away (if it were to ever happen), but it would prevent everything from eating disorders to self-harm to binging to hate crime, you know? Just be good to each other and yourself.
Edited to add: Anyone who counters either the importance of acceptance (whether fat or thin or anything in between) by attacking the opposite end is missing the point! There are risk factors associated with just about any lifestyle, and any weight, some due to what you consume or your physical behaviors, as well as those genetically predisposed or beyond surface level/simple testing. Be good to your body and be nice about everyone else's, too.0 -
Being over-weight is just like being a smoker, except tobacco companies failed at infecting the majority as the food industry has.
Those things are not the same at all. Food is needed to live. Food is not an infection. Food doesn't cause disease. Cigarettes are not needed to live. Cigarettes cause disease. Your analogy is very poor.
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
Who told you that? The companies that pay "scientists" to conduct biased, uncontrolled research so they can sell diet pills? What foods cause disease? What diseases do these foods cause? Do you have sources for that statement?
Are you trying to tell me that saturated fats dont contribute heart disease? That refined sugars dont contribute type two diabetes? Or that salt doesnt cause high blood pressure?
Or that excess weight doesnt cause degenerative disk disease? Or other joint problems and chronic inflammation?
Saturated fats (at least animal ones) do not increase heart disease or stroke.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
Refined sugars don't contribute to type two diabetes any more than an orange or a grape do.
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/8/3/279
http://thepaleodiet.com/fruits-and-sugars/
Salt doesn't "cause" hypertension, but is contraindicated in those who have it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0016285/
Careful.. if you are going to spout "facts" make sure you know them.0 -
You're telling me these things contribute but don't cause these issues. Weird, because that's not what you originally said... So that must mean these problems don't affect people who aren't heavy. Because only heavy people eat lots of saturated fats/refined sugars/salt. Right, right - keep slapping your stigma onto fat people and glorify thinness even if it's "unhealthy".Being over-weight is just like being a smoker, except tobacco companies failed at infecting the majority as the food industry has.
Those things are not the same at all. Food is needed to live. Food is not an infection. Food doesn't cause disease. Cigarettes are not needed to live. Cigarettes cause disease. Your analogy is very poor.
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
Who told you that? The companies that pay "scientists" to conduct biased, uncontrolled research so they can sell diet pills? What foods cause disease? What diseases do these foods cause? Do you have sources for that statement?
Are you trying to tell me that saturated fats dont contribute heart disease? That refined sugars dont contribute type two diabetes? Or that salt doesnt cause high blood pressure?
Or that excess weight doesnt cause degenerative disk disease? Or other joint problems and chronic inflammation?0 -
Are you trying to tell me that saturated fats don't contribute heart disease? That refined sugars don't contribute type two diabetes? Or that salt doesn't cause high blood pressure? Or that excess weight doesn't cause degenerative disk disease? Or other joint problems and chronic inflammation?
I think you missed the distinction between "cause disease when you eat it" and "contribute to disease when eaten in very high quantities and accompanied by complex interactions of other environmental and genetic factors".
No, eating saturated fat doesn't contribute to heart disease *unless* you are eating very high quantities of saturated fats, and even then only when certain other environmental and genetic factors are aligned. Ditto for all those food-disease combos you just listed.
Food does not cause disease. Eating food does not cause disease. Eating food is super important if you wish to avoid death. And yes, that even includes those supposedly disease-causing foods listed above.0 -
I think if someone is fat, and loves themselves the way they are, the details should be between them and their doctor. I don't believe that it's right to mock ANYONE, skinny, fat, or inbetween. What I don't like about the FA movement is the attempt to say that obesity is A-OK, when there's a whole lot of science that says otherwise. Coming from an obese woman, I know that my weight is unhealthy. Joint pain, blood panels, all the proof is there.
There should be a Self Acceptance movement, where the sentiment is a little more "I don't wanna be a supermodel, I just want to be healthy, and as fit as I can be." It's not about looks, it's about your life.0 -
I think if someone is fat, and loves themselves the way they are, the details should be between them and their doctor. I don't believe that it's right to mock ANYONE, skinny, fat, or inbetween. What I don't like about the FA movement is the attempt to say that obesity is A-OK, when there's a whole lot of science that says otherwise. Coming from an obese woman, I know that my weight is unhealthy. Joint pain, blood panels, all the proof is there.
There should be a Self Acceptance movement, where the sentiment is a little more "I don't wanna be a supermodel, I just want to be healthy, and as fit as I can be." It's not about looks, it's about your life.
As I said above.. depression, anxiety, and stress do far more damage than what we eat.
I'm for whatever allows people to live their lives as free of the three above, as possible.
I'd rather have 50 great years, than 80 mostly crappy ones.0 -
You should never be ashamed of who you are. But that doesn't mean that you should accept that you can never be better.0
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In to find tomorrow.0
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There is a difference between "fat acceptance" and promoting obesity. We should "accept" everyone no matter what size they are and it's wrong to ridicule people based on their weight, but being fat should not be encouraged and it shouldn't be normalized. (I literally watched a South Park episode on fat acceptance today lol)0
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I guess I missed the Fat Acceptance Movement when I am being asked if I am pregnant, or am sneered at on the airplane or have to shop in the tiniest corner of Macys...I wonder where this movement is as I am shamed EVERY SINGLE DAY NONSTOP for being overweight.
That is what I was thinking.0 -
Honestly I don't care one way or another. If you enjoy being fat, cool. That doesn't affect me in any way, so why should I care? I know I hate being fat, but there are some people who enjoy it and are happy with themselves.0
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I think this so-called "movement" is fantastic, and is a demonstration of tolerance and decency. It is a backlash against the all too common spectacle of arrogant, agressive "fit" people demeaning those who are "inferior" to them. I'd refer to these people with terms other than "fit", but they wouldn't be suitable for polite conversation. You don't have to encourage someone to maintain or adopt an unhealthy lifestyle, nor should you. It is equally unnecessary to be an insulting boor under the guise of "helping" someone make better choices.....0
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This is a disturbing thread. Acceptance does not pertain to a person's weight, but rather, their identity and rights to employment, transportation and inclusion in society. Individuals who garner stares, comments and so on because of their weight are oppressed. Meanwhile, they may be overweight for a a variety of reasons - they may suffer from depression or endure poverty. And while many individuals on MFP are successful at meeting these challenges, there are many people who ares still struggling. I think an open mind towards all people is healthy and deserves as much developing as our bodies.0
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Great response - it came while i was posting mine!0
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Visceral fat has been linked to metabolic disturbances and increased risk for cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes. In women, it is also associated with breast cancer and the need for gallbladder surgery.
Generally speaking, abdominal fat is either visceral (surrounding the abdominal organs) or subcutaneous (lying between the skin and the abdominal wall). Fat located behind the abdominal cavity, called retroperitoneal fat, is generally counted as visceral fat. Several studies indicate that visceral fat is most strongly correlated with risk factors such as insulin resistance, which sets the stage for type 2 diabetes. Some research suggests that the deeper layers of subcutaneous fat may also be involved in insulin resistance (in men but not in women).
As the evidence against abdominal fat mounts, researchers and clinicians are trying to measure it, correlate it with health risks, and monitor changes that occur with age and overall weight gain or loss. The most accurate measurement techniques, magnetic resonance imaging and computed tomography, are expensive and not available for routine use. However, research using these imaging methods has shown that waist circumference reflects abdominal fat. It has largely superseded waist-to-hip ratio (waist size divided by hip size) as an indicator of fat distribution, because it is easier to measure and about as accurate. There’s also evidence that waist circumference is a better predictor of health problems than body mass index (BMI), which indicates only total body fat (see “Measuring up”).
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Abdominal-fat-and-what-to-do-about-it.htm0 -
The same exact scientists? Well I'll be, ain't that something. I'll assume they're the same scientists who said that blacks were genetically inferior to whites. Or the scientists who said gay people have a mental illness. Or maybe the scientists who helped justify the Holocaust? Ohhh wait, I bet you mean different scientists...
Don't believe everything you hear on the news and read in your little diet books - it's all a business. I'm not talking correlation vs. causation, I'm talking about the billion dollar companies that benefit off of falsifying research to make money off of YOU. Yes, they do it, and yes, they will happily take your money even if it means plugging millions into fake research. Don't think money can't buy everything, because it can and it does. After working in research labs, I've seen how researchers will write down fake data to receive that $1M grant or a brand new laboratory. Don't think these "scientists" are all moral - even morals can be bought for the right price.
ANd let me guess,all the "real" science is hidden, bought up, or the scientists who do it are suspiciously murdered, right?
The real answer, the TRUTH, that you know is out there, is real. Any scientific evidence to the contrary is simply bought research, squelching, or falsified research.
I guess that makes sense.0 -
I was scoffed at in another thread for saying this but I'll say it again:
It was not until I looked at myself in the mirror, at 325lbs and said "Hey, you are as fundamentally good and deserving of good things as any other person out there." that I lost any weight. I have kept off over 50lbs for over 3 years. I had to embrace the girl that I was then so I could become the woman that I am now. I lost and gained the same 40ish lbs over and over for the majority of my adult life, but it wasn't until I said "you are good, too" that anything really changed.
I write a blog that I guess you could consider to be a "fat acceptance" blog. I prefer to use the terminology "body positivity". I write a blog for plus sized horse back riders that while not ignoring the need to be conscious of yourself, encourages those who don't fit the stereotypical body type of a horse back rider to not wait until all the stars align to do the things that they enjoy in their life. I wasted an easy HALF of my life not doing the stuff I wanted to do because I was overweight and thought that I didn't get the good stuff - the good job, the loving SO, the good LIFE, unless I was thin. NO MORE.
Accepting my body and seeing the value of having a body in the first place also helped me to be more attuned to it. If I stopped writing it off as useless and valueless, I started to pay attention to when my body was saying things like "I'm getting sick" and thus rest it, or "I'm dehydrated" and hydrate it. I ignored it because it was, in my estimation at that time, a POS that I was meant to hate.0 -
You're telling me these things contribute but don't cause these issues. Weird, because that's not what you originally said... So that must mean these problems don't affect people who aren't heavy. Because only heavy people eat lots of saturated fats/refined sugars/salt. Right, right - keep slapping your stigma onto fat people and glorify thinness even if it's "unhealthy".Being over-weight is just like being a smoker, except tobacco companies failed at infecting the majority as the food industry has.
Those things are not the same at all. Food is needed to live. Food is not an infection. Food doesn't cause disease. Cigarettes are not needed to live. Cigarettes cause disease. Your analogy is very poor.
Certain foods do cause disease. Being over weight causes disease.
Who told you that? The companies that pay "scientists" to conduct biased, uncontrolled research so they can sell diet pills? What foods cause disease? What diseases do these foods cause? Do you have sources for that statement?
Are you trying to tell me that saturated fats dont contribute heart disease? That refined sugars dont contribute type two diabetes? Or that salt doesnt cause high blood pressure?
Or that excess weight doesnt cause degenerative disk disease? Or other joint problems and chronic inflammation?
Wait, what? Me saying large amounts of body fat is unhealthy is me stigmatizing fat people and glorifying thinbess as healhty? Lmao! You can be considered thin and still have a hugh percentage bodyfat.its a proven fact that having a highpercentage of bodyfat puts you ay risk for health problems. But as somebody pointed out, it could just be a vast conspiracy by diet pill companies.
I also called smoking unhealthy, am I stigmatizing myself.0 -
A lot of the "hating thin people" is unintentional.
EG: the "real women have curves!" crap that turns up on FB.
Sure, it's a stand against the somewhat ridiculous standard put forth with freakishly tall and thin supermodels.
it's also an unsult, probably unintentional, to anyone who is built like my wife.
She's 5'4, about 125, eats whatever she wants, runs 15 miles a week, doesn't count calories, and other than when she was pregnant, has never weighed much more or less than that.
"real women" have XY. Beyond that.. there's no flat statement.0 -
A lot of the "hating thin people" is unintentional.
EG: the "real women have curves!" crap that turns up on FB.
Sure, it's a stand against the somewhat ridiculous standard put forth with freakishly tall and thin supermodels.
it's also an unsult, probably unintentional, to anyone who is built like my wife.
She's 5'4, about 125, eats whatever she wants, runs 15 miles a week, doesn't count calories, and other than when she was pregnant, has never weighed much more or less than that.
"real women" have XY. Beyond that.. there's no flat statement.
I presume you intended ""real women" have XX" - Y is the male sex chromosome.0 -
A lot of the "hating thin people" is unintentional.
EG: the "real women have curves!" crap that turns up on FB.
Sure, it's a stand against the somewhat ridiculous standard put forth with freakishly tall and thin supermodels.
it's also an unsult, probably unintentional, to anyone who is built like my wife.
She's 5'4, about 125, eats whatever she wants, runs 15 miles a week, doesn't count calories, and other than when she was pregnant, has never weighed much more or less than that.
"real women" have XY. Beyond that.. there's no flat statement.
I presume you intended ""real women" have XX" - Y is the male sex chromosome.
Oh for derp's sake.. yeah, I did. Long day.0 -
"Just my 2 cents. There are two sides to the fat acceptance movement. One strives to stop discrimination and hatred towards fat people. The other glorifies obesity and supports the hatred of thin people. I support fat acceptance, but not fat glorification."
My feelings also.
I think people that are overweight (obese) have a mental illness. It Is lack of self esteem. I think sites like this (MFP) help. I think counseling helps. The continued hatefulness from others towards obese people only makes it worse for them.0 -
I haven't read any of the replies, just want to throw out my thoughts :P
I feel like what should really be promoted is not being an *kitten*. Don't accept obesity when you can have better, but also don't be an *kitten* to or make fun of a fat person.
If an obese person understands the risks that they are taking by not treating their bodies better but they still prefer a bigger shape, I guess that's their decision. It's a delicate matter, really. We should promote health and respect.0 -
I was scoffed at in another thread for saying this but I'll say it again:
It was not until I looked at myself in the mirror, at 325lbs and said "Hey, you are as fundamentally good and deserving of good things as any other person out there." that I lost any weight. I have kept off over 50lbs for over 3 years. I had to embrace the girl that I was then so I could become the woman that I am now. I lost and gained the same 40ish lbs over and over for the majority of my adult life, but it wasn't until I said "you are good, too" that anything really changed.
I write a blog that I guess you could consider to be a "fat acceptance" blog. I prefer to use the terminology "body positivity". I write a blog for plus sized horse back riders that while not ignoring the need to be conscious of yourself, encourages those who don't fit the stereotypical body type of a horse back rider to not wait until all the stars align to do the things that they enjoy in their life. I wasted an easy HALF of my life not doing the stuff I wanted to do because I was overweight and thought that I didn't get the good stuff - the good job, the loving SO, the good LIFE, unless I was thin. NO MORE.
Accepting my body and seeing the value of having a body in the first place also helped me to be more attuned to it. If I stopped writing it off as useless and valueless, I started to pay attention to when my body was saying things like "I'm getting sick" and thus rest it, or "I'm dehydrated" and hydrate it. I ignored it because it was, in my estimation at that time, a POS that I was meant to hate.
Well said! :flowerforyou:0
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