The 'Fat Acceptance' Movement
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"Just my 2 cents. There are two sides to the fat acceptance movement. One strives to stop discrimination and hatred towards fat people. The other glorifies obesity and supports the hatred of thin people. I support fat acceptance, but not fat glorification."
My feelings also.
I think people that are overweight (obese) have a mental illness. It Is lack of self esteem. I think sites like this (MFP) help. I think counseling helps. The continued hatefulness from others towards obese people only makes it worse for them.
I feel that judgemental douchecanoes should keep their opinions to themselves. telling someone who is overweight they are overweight.. don't think they know that? Mentioning in passing that there's "a diet version" available. They know that too. Comments like "are you sure?" when they are ordering food.. yes, they are sure.
That's the kind of crap that wears people down, day after day.
Overweight people KNOW they are overweight. They KNOW it's probably not optimal for them.
But when your very EXISTANCE is taken by judgemental douchecanoes as a red flag to comment, judge, and ride in to "halp" the situation.. it becomes a very hard life to live for a lot of people.
And yes, there's some fine evidence of that in this thread. There's also some fine evidence of head in the sand "I deny your reality, and substitute my own" oblivion.
A person's value is not their dress size, standing weight, bicep dimension, or bench press ability.
We have become such a shallow and narcissistic culture, that some of us assume that because we are skinnier than others, we are somehow more accomplished, more learned, or better as a person.
I don't think saying anyone who is obese has a "mental illness" is helping the situation, at all.0 -
Tagging0
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I guess I missed the Fat Acceptance Movement when I am being asked if I am pregnant, or am sneered at on the airplane or have to shop in the tiniest corner of Macys...I wonder where this movement is as I am shamed EVERY SINGLE DAY NONSTOP for being overweight.
That is what I was thinking.
me to0 -
I say mental illness because of their self esteem.
I agree with you. You know if you are overweight. I think a lot of people stay overweight because society has made them feel unacceptable and worthless. Why try? It is easier to just ignore it all. That is why they need help not ridicule.0 -
I say mental illness because of their self esteem.
I agree with you. You know if you are overweight. I think a lot of people stay overweight because society has made them feel unacceptable and worthless. Why try? It is easier to just ignore it all. That is why they need help not ridicule.
They don't need pity either.
What they need is to be told that they are okay being who and what they are, and that they don't have to live up to someone elses standards or face ridicule, pity, or exclusion.
If they want to lose weight, they will. If they don't want to, they wont.
Neither you, nor I, have the ability, right, or position to decide what is best for someone else, and therefore, take a position of ridicule OR pity.
you ask the person BEFORE you decide to help them across the street, if they actually want to cross it.0 -
I say mental illness because of their self esteem.
I agree with you. You know if you are overweight. I think a lot of people stay overweight because society has made them feel unacceptable and worthless. Why try? It is easier to just ignore it all. That is why they need help not ridicule.
They don't need pity either.
What they need is to be told that they are okay being who and what they are, and that they don't have to live up to someone elses standards or face ridicule, pity, or exclusion.
If they want to lose weight, they will. If they don't want to, they wont.
Neither you, nor I, have the ability, right, or position to decide what is best for someone else, and therefore, take a position of ridicule OR pity.
you ask the person BEFORE you decide to help them across the street, if they actually want to cross it.
QFT.0 -
I just wish people would focus on trying to be as healthy as they can so we can lower healthcare issues.0
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You can be overweight outwardly, but active and eat a balanced and varied diet - just too much of it, and be a picture of health on the inside.
You can be skinny outwardly, but completely sedentary and eat like crap day-in, day-out, and be so unhealthy inside it's scary.
The thing is, outward appearance is often - not always - an indication of lifestyle choices. The overweight are often the sedentary ones eating like crap, and the thin people are often the active and "healthy eating" types.
As people have said, body image isn't really an indicator of health to a point. "To a point" because let's not kid ourselves that the 5'4 woman at 300lbs is healthy. If you're a bit chubby, I'm willing to venture a guess you have a fairly active lifestyle and pair it with decent food choices on a regular basis and I'm willing to celebrate your body type and lifestyle therein.0 -
I hate the idea that to be "acceptable" in someone's eyes as a fat person, I HAVE to be "working on it" - I used to qualify my very existence in just that way... "Yeah, I am what you see, but I'm a work in progress." A LOT happier after I stopped giving two sh*ts what anyone else thought about me. Your opinion or "acceptance" of my body says more about YOU than me.
AND YOU KNOW... once I stopped thinking about anyone else's body in anything but a completely neutral and "it's none of my business and I have no right to an opinion" way, I got a lot happier, too.0 -
Quoting these because they're worth a second look:This is a disturbing thread. Acceptance does not pertain to a person's weight, but rather, their identity and rights to employment, transportation and inclusion in society. Individuals who garner stares, comments and so on because of their weight are oppressed. Meanwhile, they may be overweight for a a variety of reasons - they may suffer from depression or endure poverty. And while many individuals on MFP are successful at meeting these challenges, there are many people who ares still struggling. I think an open mind towards all people is healthy and deserves as much developing as our bodies.
Thank you for mentioning poverty. A lot of people ignore the role of environmental and economic factors in obesity rates and disbursement. Just google "food desert" if you're unclear about how these factors play into health and body size. A disproportional amount of America's overweight and obese population live at or under the poverty line, in places with little to no access to affordable nutritious foods, safe spaces for fitness activities, or proper medical care to address underlying issues that can contribute to or cause weight gain. A lot of the attitude around weight loss is not only misinformed or hateful, it's classist as well.- "We are people too": Just because a person is fat, doesn't mean that should be treated as sub-human, or with any less respect than a normal or thin person. Period."Just my 2 cents. There are two sides to the fat acceptance movement. One strives to stop discrimination and hatred towards fat people. The other glorifies obesity and supports the hatred of thin people. I support fat acceptance, but not fat glorification."
My feelings also.
I think people that are overweight (obese) have a mental illness. It Is lack of self esteem. I think sites like this (MFP) help. I think counseling helps. The continued hatefulness from others towards obese people only makes it worse for them.
I feel that judgemental douchecanoes should keep their opinions to themselves. telling someone who is overweight they are overweight.. don't think they know that? Mentioning in passing that there's "a diet version" available. They know that too. Comments like "are you sure?" when they are ordering food.. yes, they are sure.
That's the kind of crap that wears people down, day after day.
[...]
A person's value is not their dress size, standing weight, bicep dimension, or bench press ability.
We have become such a shallow and narcissistic culture, that some of us assume that because we are skinnier than others, we are somehow more accomplished, more learned, or better as a person.
I don't think saying anyone who is obese has a "mental illness" is helping the situation, at all.
Hear hear!To me, fat acceptance is about embracing the body you have and learning to love it despite its "flaws". Does that mean you don't try to lose weight? No.It just means that you accept that, if you are fat/thin/in between that you are still worthy of love and should treat yourself well and not let others treat you crap because of how you look.
For many, many people shame and self loathing aren't effective motivators. If you love your body and truly want to honor it - the idea is you start making choices that will hopefully bring/keep you in good health -- which likely means weight loss if you are overweight/obese.I don't think it's about celebrating an unhealthy lifestyle, it's about saying I deserve to be treated like a human being and not persecuted for my size. I read quite a bit around the fat acceptance movement. I hated my body and had very low self esteem when I was bigger. It wasn't until I accepted myself and be happy in own skin that I could make life style changes, which incidentally resulted in weight loss.
Fat Acceptance, Body Positivity and Health At Every Size all share a common core of beliefs: that people, no matter what SIZE, no matter how they LOOK, and no matter their HEALTH STATUS, deserve to be treated with the same care and respect as anybody else.
People engaged in FA, Body Positivity, and HAES seek to change the way that fat people are treated on many levels, which can essentially be boiled down to:
1. Political/commercial , i.e. encouraging laws or rules that protect us from discrimination based on our bodies or health status.
2. Social, i.e.resisting and speaking out against the continuous media onslaught of fat hate (every joke that ends in a broken chair or cow sounds, ever), fat fearmongering ("omg if you get fat no one will ever love you so buy our product to stay slim or else you'll die alone"), and the public devaluation of fat people's contributions or efforts ("that politician is so fat, there's no way she could be a good senator", "she's such a talented singer, too bad she's huge", etc).
3. Personal, i.e. helping people repair the broken relationship between their bodies and their minds, through learning to accept and love yourself as you are and wanting the best for yourself whether you're 110 pounds or 310 pounds.
Our society is broken. It advocates healthful eating and fitness, and shames or even punishes the parents of children who are obese for having fat kids, but ignores the fact that some people have no access to a grocery store or a safe place to play (google food desert, and obesity & poverty). It wants everyone to "respect themselves" by eating better but glorifies television shows that actively seek to tear down fat people for "their health" (read: profit), even after participants have come out and explained how unhealthy and dangerous the practices behind the camera really were (google the biggest loser competitor talks eating disorder). We tell our children to love themselves but plaster billboard size images of models so thin they have to be photoshopped fatter (google models photoshopped to look fatter), and headless images of fat bodies designed to literally scare you into buying advertising space (google fat guy stripping billboard) or to go vegetarian (google PETA save the whales) or whatever else they're selling .
Fat Acceptance, Body Positivity and HAES seeks to address these issues and give people the tools to combat the mental toll that our culture takes by the constant barrage of "reasons" to hate ourselves. We live in a radically unbalanced culture, and so of course there will be some radical reactions within any attempt to make change to it. That doesn't invalidate the need for change, and the change starts in learning to accept our bodies as they are right now, and learning to respect other people whatever their bodies may be. It's not just the decent thing to do, it's the right thing to do, and ultimately it will be far more healthy for our society as a whole than any diet program or fitness machine ever will be. After all, people that love themselves want to treat themselves right, and sustainable healthy changes in diet and activity levels can only really be made when they come from a place of self-love and care, and our society as a whole will be healthier when we start recognizing that community health is about everyone supporting each other, rather than sitting back and judging others.
Just my thoughts.0 -
I was scoffed at in another thread for saying this but I'll say it again:
It was not until I looked at myself in the mirror, at 325lbs and said "Hey, you are as fundamentally good and deserving of good things as any other person out there." that I lost any weight. I have kept off over 50lbs for over 3 years. I had to embrace the girl that I was then so I could become the woman that I am now. I lost and gained the same 40ish lbs over and over for the majority of my adult life, but it wasn't until I said "you are good, too" that anything really changed.
Accepting my body and seeing the value of having a body in the first place also helped me to be more attuned to it. If I stopped writing it off as useless and valueless, I started to pay attention to when my body was saying things like "I'm getting sick" and thus rest it, or "I'm dehydrated" and hydrate it. I ignored it because it was, in my estimation at that time, a POS that I was meant to hate.
I think this is a really important point. Self-acceptance and self-love are pre-requisites for becoming healthy (both physically and mentally) - people who lose weight because they hate themselves often still hate themselves when they're thin, because they never learned to accept themselves as people.
Also, it's really hard to make any kind of improvements in your life (not just health, any aspect of life) when you hate yourself.
The following is addressed at the whole thread, not the above poster specifically:
I think part of the problem is that debates of this type are so polarised, they's always couched in terms of "fat and unhealthy" versus "thin and healthy" - when a) most people don't fit neatly into that dichotomy and b) anything that divides and polarises people is going to struggle to get its message across.
I think there needs to be two separate messages:
1. people are worthy of respect on the basis that they are human, it's shouldn't be conditional on how healthy they are or what they look like.
2. looking after our health is something that EVERYONE should be doing. It's not something that only applies to "fat people" - most people in our society are unhealthy due to a lack of exercise and an unbalanced diet. This forum is full of exceptions, i.e. people who *are* striving to have better health. But let's face it, most people could do a lot more to improve their health, whether fat or thin.
These are two completely separate issues. The first is an inalienable human right. The second is a necessary campaign to encourage people to strive for better health in our society, as the health consequences of a sedentary lifestyle in a society where most people can easily obtain an excess of food is something that urgently needs to be addressed, and it needs to be addressed in thin people too. Obesity may be a risk factor but it's one of many, and the others apply to countless thin people out there who do no exercise and eat an unbalanced diet (albeit one that doesn't put them in calorie surplus).
"healthy at every size" is a poor choice of name for a movement as it's not possible to be healthy at every size. - "people of all sizes striving for better health" would be better. "fat acceptance" needs to be more specific.... i.e. to separate the human rights issue (everyone should be treated with respect and dignity because they're human) from the health issue (the term "fat acceptance" implies accepting unhealthy body composition as inevitable or something that shouldn't be addressed from a health point of view - and there are "fat acceptance" extremists who do just that, as the most eloquent posts on this thread which explained the views of the movement pointed out as being problematic to the movement itself.... but if even those within the movement misunderstand the aims because of the name, surely that means the name is problematic). "treat everyone with respect and dignity" would be a better way to phrase that.... and you can add "regardless of..." statements to that, e.g. "treat everyone with respect and dignity regardless of sexual orientation" "treat everyone with respect and dignity regardless of ethnic origin" "treat everyone with respect and dignity regardless of their current state of health" or "treat everyone with respect and dignity regardless of what they look like"
It may seem like nit-picking to criticise the names of movements, but it absolutely does make a difference what you call something, and a bad name for a movement can cause all kinds of misunderstanding, as is very much the case with "fat acceptance" and "healthy at every size"0 -
Personally I think it's great. Fat doesn't automatically mean unhealthy. 'Thin' doesn't automatically equal healthy. I think it's about time that people look at more than just weight as a health meter. To me a lot of my weight is because of shame of being this weight. I get so much **** for being fat. I just think if people were more accepting of it - maybe I wouldn't have got to this weight. Who knows. I now don't care what other people think. I love myself for who I am. I exercise through love to my body. I eat healthy food because I love my body and it deserves food to make it run properly. Through this love - I'm losing weight. But I also feel that this weight will stay off. Rather than when I was losing weight before through punishment.0
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This is so ridiculous!
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That picture of the woman holding a whiteboard with the words "I need fat acceptance because I love to eat" - I don't believe that these were the original words written on that whiteboard. It looks like someone deleted what was there and added "I love to eat"- the handwriting doesn't match. Aside from the size of the letters being bigger, the e and a are not formed the same way. It looks like someone's tried to imitate her handwriting (not even that good an imitation) and added it on there.
I also don't think it's fair to post pictures of specific individuals for the purpose of shaming them. If that was your grandmother, would you be happy for her pic to be posted like that? Even if the words and sentiment were genuine and you didn't agree with them, I don't think most people would want their grandmother publicly shamed. I know I wouldn't.
Also, I love to eat and I'm not obese. There's not actually anything wrong with loving to eat. People don't get fat because they love to eat, it's because they eat too much compared to what they burn off. You can continue to love to eat, you just have to burn more calories to offset it.0 -
Obviously being extremely over or underweight is unhealthy. Telling someone who is overweight that they are fat doesn't help instead it makes them feel ashamed or embarrassed. Telling someone they are disgusting that is extremely underweight doesn't help either. Our society is based for a great part on how one looks. So if a celebrity looks 'hot', even though they are terribly underweight what kind of message is that sending?
That being said, we are bombarded with poor food choices everywhere we look. And that stuff tastes good too, makes you have cravings and it's really not too expensive. The information about food is skewed as well. 2000 calories for a woman per day is actually on the high side. I'm assuming it's the same for the 2500 for men. Unless you plow fields or something by hand.
For me the Fat Acceptance movement is more about getting over it. You don't like fat? Don't be fat. You don't have to ridicule someone else because they are.0 -
These are two completely separate issues. The first is an inalienable human right. The second is a necessary campaign to encourage people to strive for better health in our society, as the health consequences of a sedentary lifestyle in a society where most people can easily obtain an excess of food is something that urgently needs to be addressed, and it needs to be addressed in thin people too. Obesity may be a risk factor but it's one of many, and the others apply to countless thin people out there who do no exercise and eat an unbalanced diet (albeit one that doesn't put them in calorie surplus).
"healthy at every size" is a poor choice of name for a movement as it's not possible to be healthy at every size.
Just to play Devils Advocate....is that last point necessarily true?
I qualify this by saying I am actively losing weight and getting fit - so this is not some built in excuse for me. But I have seen you mention the inability to be healthy at a large size and that is what I am questioning. And keep in mind I am merely questioning, I am not sure myself - a lot of conflicting research out there.
1. Fat =/= Sedentary all the time. I know active fat people. They have physically demanding jobs, and play sports regularly.
2. Can one not be fat (even obese) and be healthy?
I think the second point is worth delving into - because many people assume no. I myself assumed no. Then I started looking into it...
Apparently, 10-20% of obese people are "metabolically healthy"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15671927
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20937689
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20570822
Now the question is - does that matter?
From the second study:
"metabolically healthy obese individuals are less common than previously thought and do not show increased all-cause, cancer, and CVD mortality risks in a 15-year follow-up study"
There is also this interesting paper:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21844111
The EOSS (Edmonton Obesity Staging System)
This paper examined long term mortality risk amongst overweight and obese individuals. It rated people on a scale of 0 - 5 according to the health risk factors they exhibit:
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Stage 0: No apparent risk factors (e.g., blood pressure, serum lipid and fasting
glucose levels within normal range), physical symptoms, psychopathology,
functional limitations and/or impairment of well-being related to obesity.
Stage 1: Presence of obesity-related subclinical risk factors (e.g., borderline
hypertension, impaired fasting glucose levels, elevated levels of liver
enzymes), mild physical symptoms (e.g. dyspnea on moderate exertion,
occasional aches and pains, fatigue), mild psychopathology, mild
functional limitations and/or mild impairment of well-being.
Stage 2: Presence of established obesity-related chronic disease (e.g.,
hypertension, type 2 diabetes, sleep apnea, osteoarthritis), moderate
limitations in activities of daily living and/or well-being.
Stage 3: Established end-organ damage such as myocardial infarction, heart
failure, stroke, significant psychopathology, significant functional
limitations and/or impairment of well-being.
Stage 4: Severe (potentially end-stage) disabilities from obesity-related chronic
diseases, severe disabling psychopathology, severe functional limitations
and/or severe impairment of well-being.
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For the obese/overweight individuals that fell into Stage 0 - their mortality rate was similar to lean people (and better than lean people who are "metabolically obese").
There have been conflicting studies, but the writer of the above paper criticizes them because they allowed individuals in teh study to exhibit risk factors.
Even one risk factor is enough to mean someone isn't metabolically healthy.
* Most of the above info taken form: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2013/12/does-metabolically-healthy-obesity-exist.html A researcher 100x smarter than me :laugh:
Now all that said - if someone is obese or fat, then they will need to exhibit ZERO risk factors in order to claim to be healthy.0 -
I was scoffed at in another thread for saying this but I'll say it again:
It was not until I looked at myself in the mirror, at 325lbs and said "Hey, you are as fundamentally good and deserving of good things as any other person out there." that I lost any weight. I have kept off over 50lbs for over 3 years. I had to embrace the girl that I was then so I could become the woman that I am now. I lost and gained the same 40ish lbs over and over for the majority of my adult life, but it wasn't until I said "you are good, too" that anything really changed.
I write a blog that I guess you could consider to be a "fat acceptance" blog. I prefer to use the terminology "body positivity". I write a blog for plus sized horse back riders that while not ignoring the need to be conscious of yourself, encourages those who don't fit the stereotypical body type of a horse back rider to not wait until all the stars align to do the things that they enjoy in their life. I wasted an easy HALF of my life not doing the stuff I wanted to do because I was overweight and thought that I didn't get the good stuff - the good job, the loving SO, the good LIFE, unless I was thin. NO MORE.
Accepting my body and seeing the value of having a body in the first place also helped me to be more attuned to it. If I stopped writing it off as useless and valueless, I started to pay attention to when my body was saying things like "I'm getting sick" and thus rest it, or "I'm dehydrated" and hydrate it. I ignored it because it was, in my estimation at that time, a POS that I was meant to hate.
This is the greatest message of the 'Fat Acceptance' movement. Real change can only come from a place of loving oneself and feeling that you a worthy. Too many people embark upon diets because they hate themselves and they feel they are not good enough. They choose to diet and exercise to punish themselves. The marketers of diets push the message we are not good enough and only when we are skinny, strong, fit and look like someone else will we be good enough. The "Fat Acceptance" movement recognises that being shamed or punished into change isn't going to work, it might in the short term, but no matter how thin, strong, fit you are if you hate yourself on the inside it wont matter and you'll still be unhappy and may end up gaining the weight you lost. However if you learn to love and accept yourself now, just as you are, then maybe the healthy choices will follow. That's what the movement is about.0 -
To me the difference is between acceptance and wanting special treatment. If one is too large to fit in a single plane seat, they should have to pay for two. Clothes require more material to make so of course they should cost more.0
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These are two completely separate issues. The first is an inalienable human right. The second is a necessary campaign to encourage people to strive for better health in our society, as the health consequences of a sedentary lifestyle in a society where most people can easily obtain an excess of food is something that urgently needs to be addressed, and it needs to be addressed in thin people too. Obesity may be a risk factor but it's one of many, and the others apply to countless thin people out there who do no exercise and eat an unbalanced diet (albeit one that doesn't put them in calorie surplus).
"healthy at every size" is a poor choice of name for a movement as it's not possible to be healthy at every size.
Just to play Devils Advocate....is that last point necessarily true?
"every size" includes people who weigh 800lb or more.... it isn't possible to be healthy at that size. So, "healthy at every size" is not possible. I'm not claiming to know at exactly what body fat percentage it's not longer possible to be healthy. Maybe there are people who are 40% body fat and still healthy, maybe there aren't, haven't seen any specific studies on the exact cut-off point for this.... but "healthy at every size" means, every size. Not just people who are somewhat obese.0 -
All of these fat acceptance bloggers delete comments that oppose their view and refuse to respond to emails or message asking to talk about the subject. I saw one that explained how a caloric deficit would not cause weight loss for most people and used the word starvation" and "diet" interchangeably using studies about starvation to prove her point. I left a comment explaining how she was wrong and left some information to help other people on the site and it was deleted. I then sent an email explaining that she is actually hindering people's progress which she read and never responded to.
I'd say legitimately attempt to help the people who believe stuff like this, but the people who run those websites are a lost cause who are in complete denial that they have control over their life.0 -
It doesn't matter if I accept it or not. I don't have the right to make some one miserable or say hurtful things to people. I interview/meet 25 new people/clients every week. Not appropriate to make judgement calls based on appearance.
The only person's health I have the right to comment on is my own.
If others want to be judgmental, all I can do is lead by example.
If some one has to take 15 smoke breaks or eating breaks or personal calls or drinks on the job and it impacts their performance, I don't get to judge them on that, only that work is not getting done in the proper time frame and quality level.0 -
i don't think there should be a Fat Acceptance movement.
But I do think there should be some serious gains made in helping women of ALL sizes to love themselves.
These acceptance movements come out of a need for women (and Men) to love themselves and not vilify their own bodies.
Personally, I think if you can truly, well and truly, learn to love yourself, you will learn and love to have you at your best you...
which means healthy and FIT.
screw the acceptance....we need to learn to love ourselves.
Yep ^^^ this!
And it doesn't just apply to fat either. It also applies to a lot of other things - anything that can make a person different to "the norm".
If we felt confident about ourselves and loved ourselves we would be able to give more support to those who don't feel so confident.0 -
"every size" includes people who weigh 800lb or more.... it isn't possible to be healthy at that size. So, "healthy at every size" is not possible. I'm not claiming to know at exactly what body fat percentage it's not longer possible to be healthy. Maybe there are people who are 40% body fat and still healthy, maybe there aren't, haven't seen any specific studies on the exact cut-off point for this.... but "healthy at every size" means, every size. Not just people who are somewhat obese.
Well that's just an appeal to the extreme. We can assume for this discussion we aren't talking about the minute percentage of people over 800lbs.
My post was meant more to the thread in general, but you have made some comments that might not be true. Again, the research is partly conflicting but things like..
"Body shaming isn't right, but telling someone that they have too much body fat and it's putting them at risk of health problems isn't body shaming. Fact is, body fat levels above a certain amount is not healthy. "
"I don't think people should just accept unhealthy body composition"
But neither of us (or anyone in this thread) knows what BF% is the cut off point for health...so how could you tell someone they have too much body fat? Unless of course they were...800lbs.
And the reality is - maybe body composition isn't the end all and be all. If someone with an "unhealthy body composition" exhibits no risk factors besides that - they are potentially healthy.
That all said - we agree muuuuuch more than we disagree in this thread. This is just a topic i have recently become interested in and found some of the info I posted in above post eye opening.0 -
it is a free country .if you want to be fat, be fat; you want to be thin, be thin; but when you get sick or unhealthy from either condition just don't expect me to foot the bill...
This is interesting, and kind of startling. I remember hearing about it a while ago:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/
What it boils down to is that the lifetime medical costs of smokers and obese populations is actually lower...............because as a group they die sooner.
While there are many arguments against obesity, and the cost is huge, it's not monetary. We all get sick and die (thereby costing the system money), it's a matter of when.
Personally, I'm out to cost the system much more than I otherwise would by staying healthy longer. :flowerforyou:
Ok, I was just lurking, now I'm calling BS. This is crap. I've cared for hundreds of patients with COPD. They get sick and stay sick for 10-20 years, the bulk of that time is spent in the hospital in ICU, at a cost of $10,000 - $20,000 per day. Most of the are of low socio-economic status and they don't have insurance. This puts an enormous strain on the Medicare system. Healthy people, when they become elderly, don't have the disease processes that the smokers and the obese (type II diabetes, for example) do. They don't cost the health care system very much.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you're over 30 pounds overweight you're not healthy.
Wrong! I am considered overweight by 40 lbs. my blood pressure, labs (cholesterol, blood sugar), heart function are absolutely perfect according to my doctor. He has told me that if I choose not to lose another pound I will be perfectly fine. That is because I exercise daily and try to eat healthy most of the time. Now I cannot generalize and say this would be the same for every active 50 year old carrying an extra 40. BUT you also cannot generalize and say anyone 30lbs overweight is unhealthy. Individuality....
As for fat acceptance, it's like anything else. If fat people, gay people, black people, mentally retarded people etc. etc. etc. don't stand up for themselves and say it's ok to be who I am, no one else is going to do it for them. And blah blah blah we all have to pay into the health system that deals with some of their health problems. Just add it to the list.... The drinkers, the teen parents, the families that have 6 kids but neither parent works, there is a ton of people biting into the support pie. It's part of being in a developed country. Rather have that than live in a third world country where no one gives a crap for each other and it's a daily battle to survive.
I really hate this excuse. "But my blood work is fine!" Im sure it is, for now. I smoke. I eat way too much salt. I may be fine now, but that doesnt mean my habits are healthy. If I dont quit smoking, it will mean a premature death. My lungs will suffer. My salt in take will cause problems, despite me being healthy right now. If you remain iverweight, your health WILL suffer. Being overweight is an unhealthy habit and you will have to pay the piper eventually.
I'm not wild about this either. Blood work isn't the be-all end-all measure of health. Take my blood work, for example. In 2006, you could have looked at my numbers and thought I was the perfect example of health. But in fact, I had cancer. Not so healthy after all. You have to look at everything as a whole.0 -
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All of these fat acceptance bloggers delete comments that oppose their view
No, definitely not all.
Some, yes. The more marginalized a group of people, the more extreme behaviour they tend to resort to when they try to own their rights, so nothing surprizing there and absolutely in no way relevant to the validityof their claims.
Not saying every one of these bloggers has a valid claim100% of the time, just saying that letting your judgement of a person's statements be coloured by factors like how they look or how they behave and even how much you agree with others of their statements is, in effect, prejudice. I know we all do it. But we could all try to do it less and apply the principles of logic and critical thinking (in the academic sense of the term, not as in "adversary opinion") more.0 -
The thing that bothers me about the Fat Acceptance movement, is that it has been stretched beyond what is reasonable by certain followers.
For example, sometimes I contribute articles to a feminist website. I discussed losing 39lb through MFP over the course of a year, and explained that I'd gained the weight by taking Seroxat/Paxil. That I've been maintaining for the past 9 months, by keeping a food diary, despite starting lithium (an appetite increasing medication) and having PCOS. I feel that it's important to discuss maintaining physical health while on these drugs, not only because of the increased health risks, but because the prospect of weight gain often puts people off taking them.
Within the space of 24 hours, I had 170 comments - half of which were from people ranting that by mentioning my weight loss, I'd made them feel bad about being over weight. Many were obnoxious and told me that I was "bragging." I wish that instead of replying sympathetically to every comment, I'd just told them to take some responsibility for their own feelings and lifestyle. Rather than getting hope from seeing others lose weight, some of them chose to feel offended and cling harder to their excuses.
Another problem is that within some spheres of feminist blogging, obese women are 'brave' for posing in their underwear. Celebrities or slim women are, on the other hand, 'being exploited by patriarchy.' - that's discriminatory.0 -
I never purported the truth or said I "know" the "real" truth, I simply questioned YOU.... And you didn't deliver. Sounds like your problem, not mine.
The same exact scientists? Well I'll be, ain't that something. I'll assume they're the same scientists who said that blacks were genetically inferior to whites. Or the scientists who said gay people have a mental illness. Or maybe the scientists who helped justify the Holocaust? Ohhh wait, I bet you mean different scientists...
Don't believe everything you hear on the news and read in your little diet books - it's all a business. I'm not talking correlation vs. causation, I'm talking about the billion dollar companies that benefit off of falsifying research to make money off of YOU. Yes, they do it, and yes, they will happily take your money even if it means plugging millions into fake research. Don't think money can't buy everything, because it can and it does. After working in research labs, I've seen how researchers will write down fake data to receive that $1M grant or a brand new laboratory. Don't think these "scientists" are all moral - even morals can be bought for the right price.
ANd let me guess,all the "real" science is hidden, bought up, or the scientists who do it are suspiciously murdered, right?
The real answer, the TRUTH, that you know is out there, is real. Any scientific evidence to the contrary is simply bought research, squelching, or falsified research.
I guess that makes sense.0 -
I have actually read some blogs on "how to be anorexic" and they are really depressing. It walks you through, step by step on how to starve yourself and how to curve your appetite. While these are extreme's and not healthy at all, it seems working out to lose weight is easier and my fulfilling than other options.How do you feel about the Fat Acceptance movement? After looking at a few blogs, I don't understand why it's celebrated whereas Pro-Anorexia websites are vilified. Both are unhealthy extremes.
http://ineedfatacceptance.tumblr.com/post/58380727000/i-need-fat-acceptance-because-everyone-should-wear#notes
It's like a brilliant satire, with people complaining that their doctors' are "body shaming" them by discussing their risk of heart disease.0
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