Ketosis...good or bad??

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Replies

  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
    The energy required for that conversion is very high, pretty much making the conversion inconsequential, I believe.....lol. Or at least I couldn't find any source that showed anything different, but it's been a few years since I've looked. Basically, i think you'll find that while it does happen, it's miniscule for purposes of usable energy.

    The paper quoted the extent of it and how much extra energy it used.

    It is only necessary for production of glucose of course, and our demand for that isn't massive. The extra 26 g/day of glucose is only 100 calories so it is indeed not going to set the world alight.

    The overall balance is interesting in http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/3/519/T4.expansion.html on the high protein / high fat diet protein was accumulating whereas in the SAD type diet protein was being depleted - the opposite of much conventional wisdom around low carb diets causing protein / muscle loss.

    Interesting. It seems the study you linked to deals with a 0% carbohydrate diet. I wonder how the results would differ on a standard LCHF diet where you see something ~5-10% of total calories from carbohydrates.
  • craftywitch_63
    craftywitch_63 Posts: 829 Member
    I have a very, very high protein/low carb diet and am regularly in `ketosis`

    I love protein ;-)

    Every so often I have a high carb low protein day (maybe once every week to 10 days) as it helps to move the weight along a little.

    I just wondered what peoples opinions are of ketosis as there are so many conflicting reviews on the Google for instance.

    What do you think???

    Bad. There are enough studies that indicate chronic ketosis and high-protein diets cause renal damage. Good for business if you are a nephrologist or dialysis tech, though.
  • JoJo__Fit
    JoJo__Fit Posts: 258 Member
    I did it for 7 weeks, went from 18% BF to 15.8%,

    The first 2 weeks were hard but after it was easy. I lost some strength towards the end of CKD. But I missed my carbs even when I carbed loaded every saturday.
    I gained some weight back however since I got use to eating low carb, when I get back on a diet that is low carb I have no problem at all.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
    I have a very, very high protein/low carb diet and am regularly in `ketosis`

    I love protein ;-)

    Every so often I have a high carb low protein day (maybe once every week to 10 days) as it helps to move the weight along a little.

    I just wondered what peoples opinions are of ketosis as there are so many conflicting reviews on the Google for instance.

    What do you think???

    Bad. There are enough studies that indicate chronic ketosis and high-protein diets cause renal damage. Good for business if you are a nephrologist or dialysis tech, though.

    Except it's the protein intake that messes with your kidneys and low carb diets typically aren't high protein diets; they are moderate protein diets. This is due to the possibility that your body will convert unneeded protein into glucose, which is effectively the same as if you ate additional carbs that day. To that end, I frequently see the folks on this forum doing IIFYM recommending a much higher protein intake (1+g/lb of LBM) than most low carb diets recommend (0.6-0.8g/lb of LBM), so in theory you would be better off following the which for people without preexisting kidney problems is fine. But, since it's actually the high intake of protein that has the possibility of messing with your kidneys, not being in a state of ketosis, in theory someone with preexisting kidney issues would actually be better off eating standard LCHF macros than the standard IIFYM recommendations for protein intake.

    Of course, neither diet is ideal for someone with kidney issues, but my point is simply that your criticism of a LCHF diet is misplaced.
  • Watermelon398
    Watermelon398 Posts: 37 Member
    Okay so. the bottom line is. MFP is just as divided as the rest of the internet!
  • extra_medium
    extra_medium Posts: 1,525 Member
    Ketosis causes you to burn lean muscle tissue for fuel. You only burn fat when there is carbohydrate present. DO NOT cut your carbs out! Even diabetics should have about 50% of their diet from Carbs. They are your main energy source. Protein, if eaten in large amounts, can cause gall stones, kidney stones and other ailments. Carbs=energy and fat burning...Protein=stabilized blood sugar and repair...Fat=fuller longer and decreased LDL production. The % of each depends on the amount of exercise you do and your goals.

    NO ketosis causes your body to burn fat for energy not lean muscle. Diabetics (of which I am not one) are a whole different can of worms


    This is correct. If carbs are there they are burned, not fat. That is the whole point of ketosis, eliminate the carbs and burn fat. I feel wonderful in ketosis and I work out.

    Fat is burned when you use more calories than you consume over a period of time. Even if "carbs are there." Otherwise anyone not on a low carb diet would never lose weight. And we know that is not how it works.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
    Fat is burned when you use more calories than you consume over a period of time. Even if "carbs are there." Otherwise anyone not on a low carb diet would never lose weight. And we know that is not how it works.

    I think the idea is that if "carbs are there" but you're eating a caloric deficit, you will run out of carbs even if your diet consists entirely of carbs because your body is burning more calories than you consume. It is true that carbs, when available, are the preferred source of energy and are burned first.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Ketosis...good or bad??

    Bad...because of stank *kitten* breath. Guy here at work has been doing this **** for over a month and he smells like he eats a **** sammich for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day. I can't stand to be within about 10 ft of the guy...20 feet if he's breathing through his mouth. That's some foul *kitten* **** and he never had that problem before he went into this 20 - 30 grams of carb crap. I wish he'd have an apple to clean up that sewer that is his mouth. He's leaning out, but for the love of all things holy he smells like ****...
  • eightmilesornorun
    eightmilesornorun Posts: 1
    I just wanted to comment on some of the people who don't think Ketosis gives you enough energy for high activity. I keep a Ketosis based diet and I run 8 miles a day (At least) You definitely have enough energy if you're doing it right.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    I have a very, very high protein/low carb diet and am regularly in `ketosis`

    I love protein ;-)

    Every so often I have a high carb low protein day (maybe once every week to 10 days) as it helps to move the weight along a little.

    I just wondered what peoples opinions are of ketosis as there are so many conflicting reviews on the Google for instance.

    What do you think???

    Weight lose aside ketosis has many health benefits!

    If you are eating excessive amounts of protein you are doing well to be staying in ketosis! An ideal diet for ketosis is high fat, moderate protein and low carb!

    Some people do not like the idea of ketosis as it is a restrictive style of eating (which it is), but each to there own. Millions find calorie restrictive diets (moderation) too hard to handle.
  • jwats8
    jwats8 Posts: 112
    Ketosis...good or bad??

    Bad...because of stank *kitten* breath. Guy here at work has been doing this **** for over a month and he smells like he eats a **** sammich for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day. I can't stand to be within about 10 ft of the guy...20 feet if he's breathing through his mouth. That's some foul *kitten* **** and he never had that problem before he went into this 20 - 30 grams of carb crap. I wish he'd have an apple to clean up that sewer that is his mouth. He's leaning out, but for the love of all things holy he smells like ****...

    LMAO!
  • littlekitty3
    littlekitty3 Posts: 265 Member
    http://youtu.be/RehCW0KM8RM

    Here's a video on starvation, but it's more like explaining how the body adapts. Learn about keto before jumping into it, look at both sides of the story first.
  • MelvinOAnderson
    MelvinOAnderson Posts: 5
    Ketosis are good for health because it serves to cut your craving it has positive impact on your mind ketogenic diet methodologies are continously demonstrated to help with cancer.
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
    Ketosis...good or bad??

    Bad...because of stank *kitten* breath. Guy here at work has been doing this **** for over a month and he smells like he eats a **** sammich for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day. I can't stand to be within about 10 ft of the guy...20 feet if he's breathing through his mouth. That's some foul *kitten* **** and he never had that problem before he went into this 20 - 30 grams of carb crap. I wish he'd have an apple to clean up that sewer that is his mouth. He's leaning out, but for the love of all things holy he smells like ****...

    Yep. This was a side effect I never managed to shake even after the better part of a year on low carb. It was most unholy.

    Then again, my garlic, peppers, and onions vegan menu from a few weeks ago produced a different but similarly disgusting odor emanating from every pore. I smelled much like last month's forgotten produce in the back of a vegetable drawer. So it isn't just a low carb diet that can cause problems.
  • icrushit
    icrushit Posts: 773 Member
    My own personal thoughts, are there can be too much protein in a diet, so I try to eat somewhere between the minimum recommended amount health-wise, something like 50/ 60g, and the amounts recommended tor optimal benefit physique-wise.

    At the moment I'm also eating low carb, but it is the typical flavour of high fat and moderate protein. I plan to maintain this until I lose the unwanted weight, but am sure I was not in ketosis, and am probably definitely not right now, as at my lowest I was eating about 50g of net carbs, and am currently eating somewhere less than 100g (sometimes 50, sometimes 75, sometimes more, dependant on the humour I'm in).

    Long term, I will use carb/ fat balance to manage my appetite, but aside from that, I don't intend to stay eating low carb/ high fat forever.

    By the way, I wonder if what you are in is actually even ketosis - I thought ketosis was a fat burning mode. Sounds like you're not eating much fat (or carbs), just protein, which your body is probably being forced to convert into glucose to meet your energy needs. I'm speculating, and am sure someone more knowledgeable folks will chime in, if they haven't already.

    On a parting note, I remember reading carbs tended to be the only clean-burning fuel utilised by the body, as utilising fat or protein for energy tended to generate toxic by-products by being burned for fuel, that the body then needed to take care of. This put me off low-carb diets for a long time, but admit I have not done much research into it, and right now am happy to eat low carb for weight loss in the short term.
  • ncahill77
    ncahill77 Posts: 501 Member
    Ketosis causes you to burn lean muscle tissue for fuel. You only burn fat when there is carbohydrate present. DO NOT cut your carbs out! Even diabetics should have about 50% of their diet from Carbs. They are your main energy source. Protein, if eaten in large amounts, can cause gall stones, kidney stones and other ailments. Carbs=energy and fat burning...Protein=stabilized blood sugar and repair...Fat=fuller longer and decreased LDL production. The % of each depends on the amount of exercise you do and your goals.

    I have no dog in this hunt about ketosis but I just want to set you straight on the 50% of diet from carbs for diabetics. That's a really bad idea, the ADA's suggestion of 50% includes whole grains, oatmeal, rice and potatoes not just vegetables, most diabetics react badly to at least one if not all of the afore mentioned. If they said 50% of your diet should be carbs solely from vegetables that might work but they don't and their diet doesn't either. 25-35% is a much more realistic percentage at the end of the day.
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