Morbidly obese...

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  • sloth3toes
    sloth3toes Posts: 2,212 Member
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    Maybe he can mentor you *wink*

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  • amyk0202
    amyk0202 Posts: 667 Member
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    Just to put things into perspective...

    I'm 5' 2.5" 42 year old woman & I eat about 1200 calories a day. I have also had WLS (vertical sleeve gastrectomy 4/4/12) so I can eat at this level & not feel deprived. I have been advised by my nutritionist & my surgeon about my diet. My bmi the morning of surgery was 45.3--well into morbidly obese. I know that for myself, I tried so many diets before I had the surgery & my main problem was hunger. If you limit your calories at such an extreme level without removing your stomach, I really think you will just not be able to maintain & you will give up. That happened to me over & over. I'm not saying that you should have WLS--it isn't for everyone and you do have to resolve your bad relationship with food or it will not work for you, but you do have to pick a strategy that you will be able to stick with in the long run & I think the calorie suggestion given by MFP would be a good starting point. You absolutely will lose weight quickly if you start eating 1200 calories a day, but you will not be happy & being unhappy at every meal & hungry & waiting for the next time you can eat is not a good way to live your life. It is just trading one unhealthy way of relating to food with another. You will get a lot of advice on this forum, but what it boils down to is finding what works for you. If you eat at the MFP suggested level & aren't losing, try adjusting your calories down slightly until you are. I know that you want to lose the weight as fast as possible. Before I started the surgery process, I was so discouraged with the time constraints--all the different doctors I had to see, the 6 months of nutritional counseling before I could even have the surgery. It was all a horribly frustrating delay so I know that the idea of taking a couple of weeks or months to experiment with different calorie amounts is probably not what you want to do. You probably want to get rid of the weight as fast as possible but remember that changing you whole life is really hard not just physically but psychologically & it will take time. Good luck!!!!
  • VictoriasImage77
    VictoriasImage77 Posts: 18 Member
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    You would risk throwing your body into starvation mode; where it wants to hold on to every last pound because it thinks it is going through a time of famine. It's a survival adaptation. If you put your body into starvation mode, your weight loss will become extremely slow. You want your body's metabolism to be quick to burn things off, and to do so it cannot think it is going through famine. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it's true.
  • CarolinkaCjj
    CarolinkaCjj Posts: 622 Member
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    I used to be 235 pounds four months ago and now I'm 191 pounds...and I got there by reducing my calories to 1200 a day. No, I wasn't "miserable." No, I wasn't starving. In fact, I had a hard time getting ENOUGH calories because I was FULL all of the time...know why? Because I eat mostly vegetables, fruits, legumes, and little nuts/seeds. You have to eat more of this type of food in order to get the calories, so you feel full most of the time.

    First off - amazing job on your weight loss.

    Secondly, and I say this respectfully - you were a 235lb female...that isn't even remotely comparable to a 455lb male.

    +1 on both points. If I had tried to start at 1200 calories as a 300+ female, I would have failed miserably - would have most likely binged and not addressed changing my eating habits. Have lost 23 pounds since December with 1700 to 1800 a day. As I enter my new weight, the recommended calories gradually decrease so I suspect when I hit 235 (oh what a glorious day that will be!), 1200 will seem totally reasonable.
  • nanaofnc
    nanaofnc Posts: 7 Member
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    IIn my opinion, just being accountable for your calories and logging them in will begin your success in weight loss. It made me realize what mindless eating I did in the past. Makes you thing twice, triple, about what you put in your mouth. Wishing you the best!
  • Rays_Wife
    Rays_Wife Posts: 1,173 Member
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    bump for later reading, i would like to input an answer when I have time
  • sloth3toes
    sloth3toes Posts: 2,212 Member
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    You would risk throwing your body into starvation mode; where it wants to hold on to every last pound because it thinks it is going through a time of famine. It's a survival adaptation. If you put your body into starvation mode, your weight loss will become extremely slow. You want your body's metabolism to be quick to burn things off, and to do so it cannot think it is going through famine. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it's true.

    This is not true. Read this Down-Arrow.png
    Your body will go into starvation mode

    To everyone mentioning starvation mode in this thread. Please read this entire quote. And please stop using the term 'starvation mode.' in reference to eating too few calories. YES, eating too few calories has many caveats. Going into 'starvation mode' is NOT one of them.
    Read this awhile back and it's brilliant.

    So sick of reading responses of people regarding diet and weight loss with everyone throwing around purported "facts" about starvation mode. So, here is a little research on the topic. Feel free to chime in with other studies, but lets keep it based on actual research, not personal anecdotes and not "my trainer says."

    Starvation mode does not happen overnight or even in just a few days! Calories in, calories out. Simple, right? Short term, yes, it’s simple, long term, not so much. Let’s add some real science to the discussion:

    First, a definition. Starvation mode does not mean going without food. It means that you cut your caloric intake to less than what the body would normally burn in the course of a day. I have seen so many posts where people offer advice and tell people they need to eat more to lose weight because they are starving their bodies. The idea postulated is that eating too few calories will reduce a person’s metabolism to such an extent that the person will gain weight instead of losing.

    Now, a look at one of the classic scientific studies on starvation. Probably the most famous study done was conducted after WWII by researchers at the University of Minnesota. Starvation was widespread throughout Europe during the war and scientists were trying to figure out how to re-feed people suffering from starvation and determine the long-term effects. (Remember, tens of thousands of people died after liberation from concentration camps not only from disease but from the reintroduction of food that their bodies were no longer capable of digesting.) Scientists recruited 36 young healthy men to participate in a yearlong study divided into several phases: a 12-week normal control period, a 24-week starvation phase where calories were so dramatically reduced that participants lost approximately 25% of body weight; and, finally, a recovery phase to renourish participants. Results of the study were published in the two-volume, Biology of Human Starvation (Minneapolis: University of Minneapolis, 1950). See more information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment.

    So, what did the results of the study find? First, all participants lost weight. Starvation mode does not result in your body hanging onto extra fat or calories in an effort to “preserve” your body. But, it’s more complicated than just losing weight. All of the participants also experienced a drop in their metabolic rates – approximately 40% below baseline. Now, you will see many posters here that will argue that you will start losing muscle and not fat within a few days of going into so-called “starvation mode.” Yet, the research shows that participants lost both. In fact, at no point did they stop losing fat until they hit a rate of approximately 5% body fat near the end of the study.

    Lyle McDonald explains it this way:

    In general, it's true that metabolic rate tends to drop more with more excessive caloric deficits… But here's the thing: in no study I've ever seen has the drop in metabolic rate been sufficient to completely offset the caloric deficit. That is, say that cutting your calories by 50% per day leads to a reduction in the metabolic rate of 10%. Starvation mode you say. Well, yes. But you still have a 40% daily deficit.

    But, keep in mind that apart from weight loss, semi-starvation has other not-so-cool effects on your mind and body. The other physical effects from the Minnesota study on semi-starvation included a significant drop in physical endurance, reduction in strength of about 10%, and sluggish reflexes. Those that were the most fit initially showed the greatest deterioration. In addition, heart volume shrank about 20%, pulses slowed and their body temperatures dropped. Concentration and judgment became impaired. Sexual function was reduced and all lost interest in sex. They had every physical indication of accelerated aging. But keep in mind, this was a year-long study, not something that happened in a just a few days or two weeks of eating restricted calories.

    The more dramatic effects of semi-starvation from the Minnesota study were psychological, similar to what can be observed in anorexic patients. The men became nervous, anxious, apathetic, withdrawn, impatient, self-critical, emotional and depressed. A few even mutilated themselves, one chopping off three fingers in stress. They became obsessed with food, thinking, talking and reading about it constantly; developed weird eating rituals; hoarding, etc.

    Now, let’s look at another aspect. The folks at Cambridge University in England did a study to determine the different effects starvation had on lean people versus obese people. The study can be found here: http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food2/UID07E/uid0 7e11.htm. Let’s just cut to the chase with this study.

    Does starvation mode slow down the metabolism? No and Yes.

    In the first 2 days of starvation, there is a small absolute increase in basic metabolic rate relative to values obtained from overnight fasting. Overnight fasting is what every one of us does during our sleeping hours. So it is not true that going below recommended calories for one day is going to slow down your metabolism -- quite the contrary, it may speed it up just a little. Of course, this is just limited to the first few days. After that, studies in fact support that “starvation mode” slows down metabolism.

    Does Starvation mode cause our bodies to catabilize (devour our muscles and other lean mass)? Yes and No.

    Lean individuals lost great amounts of fat-free, lean tissue during starvation, but obese individuals lost much more fat tissue. The loss of lean mass is not as critical to the obese person simply because an obese person has more lean mass than a person of the same age and height but normal weight. Here we get to a basic idea that makes sense – fat storage – the same way animals build up bulk to rely on during the winter, obese people have fat stores they can use (to a limited extent) in times of need. This means that the effects of a semi-starvation diet upon a normal weight individual are of course much more devastating than the effects on someone who is obese.

    Finally, some conclusions. Does all this mean I should reduce my caloric intake below the minimum recommended as an effective way to lose weight? If you think the answer is yes, then you haven’t carefully read everything here, so I will spell it out:

    Let’s start by clearing up that major myth I see repeated over and over again in the forums: that a single day or even a few days of extreme caloric restrictions forces your body into starvation mode, significantly reducing your metabolism and causing you to lose muscles. Not true. You may, in fact, lose weight in the short term. Your body does not go into starvation mode after a few days of extreme calorie restricted eating.

    However, let’s look again at the Minnesota study for further compelling evidence why semi-starvation is not a good idea for long-term weight loss. In the latter half of the Minnesota Starvation Study the men were allowed to eat ad libitum again. Researchers found they had insatiable appetites, yet never felt full, these effects continued for months afterwards. Semi-starvation diets don’t work long-term for this simple reason – under ordinary pressures, when eating resumes, people put the weight back on and oftentimes, gain more.

    And let’s not forget the other physical and psychological effects mentioned earlier. Any of those sound appealing to you? Reduced concentration or sexual function anyone? The Cambridge study also looked at several deaths from people who undertook extreme starvation diets, particularly those that did not create a good nutritional balance in the calories that were consumed.

    Bottom line, you should do adequate research and dietary analysis to ensure you are getting the best nutrition you can for your calories.
  • Arydria
    Arydria Posts: 179 Member
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    IIn my opinion, just being accountable for your calories and logging them in will begin your success in weight loss. It made me realize what mindless eating I did in the past. Makes you thing twice, triple, about what you put in your mouth. Wishing you the best!

    *clap* So true!!!
  • linsey0689
    linsey0689 Posts: 753 Member
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    Because that's the minimum any adult should eat. So due to your size you need more then that. If you are 450 pounds you may be eating as much as 3000 or even 4000 calories a day. Give what MFP a try and don't do much lower then what they say. Just remember you didn't get to your size over night and you will not get to your goal that way either. Best of luck to you!
  • shg200
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    I want to thank everyone who has posted. I think I will start out trying the mfp recommended levels and seek out someone that I can use as a sounding board.

    My goal is to lose the fat and get healthier.

    I can't thank all of you enough for voicing your advice, concern & support...
  • MissJazzie14
    MissJazzie14 Posts: 60 Member
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    Geesh,

    There is a lot going on with this topic but to be honest I have been in your shoes. I started at 429 and I have started my weight loss journey on Dec. 16.2013 By Dec. 31, 2013 I have lost 16 lbs and i was eating 1200-1500 calories a day. Sometimes I was under 1200 calories and there were days that I will eat 1200 calories, burn 300-400 calories and eat some vegetables or protein shake after a work out. I am not a doctor so i can not tell you what is a healthy calorie starting point, But i am under my doctor supervision with my diet and my doctor is completely fine with me eating 1200 calories a day. Yes the weight will come off quick. My doctor told me I can lose 100 lbs in 5 months or less with the diet and exercise and when your body get to a certain weight, the weight-loss will start to slow down. I think that starting off slow will help you. If you feel that you can eat 1200 calories in day and be fine then go ahead =). Do what makes you happy. But start off by little simple goals such as cutting sodas or juice out and replace it with crystal light and add more fruits and veggies to your diet. I wish you pure luck on your journey.
  • Beautyspin
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    You should try to login all the calories in a day and see that it is less than 1200 (or what ever was suggested by MFP). Once you hit "complete entry for today" button, it will tell you right there why you should take more calories. Your body will go into starvation mode in the sense that it will reduce its metabolic activity and try to store more fat. So not only do you not become less functional, it actually hinders what you are trying to achieve. :tongue:
  • cebreisch
    cebreisch Posts: 1,340 Member
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    I started at 376. If you drop straight to 1200 calories, then your body will think it's starving and will hold onto every morsel you consume.

    MFP is a little on the low side too. The dr. office wanted me to cut down to 1500 calories a day - even weight watchers gave me more. SO, now my range is MFP on the low side, and WW on the high side. If I hit between those numbers, I'm happy, and I'm losing weight doing it.
  • wannakimmy
    wannakimmy Posts: 488 Member
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    I started at 332 lbs, MFP gave me 2510 calories. That was already a HUGE deficit for me. I was eating around 5000 to 6000 calories a day and not even knowing it. The calories MFP allotted me was perfect. It was enough I was full, many days even had calories left over.

    Be honest with yourself and log everything.... You would be surprised how many calories you are consuming.

    One thing is for certain, for me, if I had cut down to 1200 right away. I wouldn't be here anymore. I would have given up in the first week. It has taken you years to get to where you are now, it will takes years to get back to being a healthy weight. If done correctly, you will be happy with the results.

    Swimming, for me, has been instrumental to my weight loss thus far. I feel 1000 times better emotionally and physically than I did when I started this new lifestyle. It isn't hard on joints, but it s great cardio workout. I've been going for an hour a day 4 to 5 times a week.

    Good luck to ya!
  • ofccat
    ofccat Posts: 284 Member
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    The goal is to to lose weight safely and effectively. Unless you were working 1:1 continuously with a nutrition expert cutting that many calories and dropping weight too fast could be harmful. By cutting back even some you're body will need to adjust to the difference. You will continue cutting calories as you lose weight throughout your journey. Hang in there.
  • Valereee
    Valereee Posts: 74 Member
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    I've been eating 1200 calories a day since Thanksgiving. Some days I go to bed early cuz I'm sooooo hungry and can't wait till morning to get allotted another 1200. Since I've been on this same yo-yo dieting pattern for 40 years, I already KNOW what's coming. One day I'll go to the doctor and won't see any results, I'll give up and drive right to the nearest fast food drive-through. I count every morsel and am truthful, but it always happens -- I reach that plateau and the losing slows down. At one time I reached 500 pounds, but am currently 383. I'm trying to increase my calories, but it's hard cuz I want to see results NOW. So, in my personal experience, a 1200 calorie a day "diet" is not beneficial long-term. It's probably better to change eating habits/patterns and learn to follow a more healthful meal plan.
  • njitaliana
    njitaliana Posts: 814 Member
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    I stuck to 1200 calories a day the last time I lost weight. After a year, my metabolism slowed down, so I stopped losing. I didn't lose an ounce for an entire year even though I stuck to 1200 calories. I had to switch to a vegan diet to lose more. This time, I'm doing it sensibly and starting out at 1600 calories. Each time I take about 30 lbs off, I will lower my calorie intake by about 50 calories a day.
    Why isn't it recommended that calories get cut to 1200 a day, this should get rid of the weight a lot quicker. Just curious why the recommended calories were that high
  • PuckBunny1919
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    Slow and steady :)
  • djwonga
    djwonga Posts: 6 Member
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    I am currently on a plateau due to under eating. I would consume 1500 calories a day and exercise loosing between 600-1000 calories. Yes this was great to shock my body however it is now in starvation mode. I would suggest trying the calorie target but working it out for yourself. The bigger you are the calories you use to do anything. A target is the to be hit not be under by 1000 calories. Anyone can lose weight and you are in the right place for support
  • valerie916
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    I can't believe some of the advice on here. One post is saying that someone of that size can not eat for weeks and still survive? We need vitamins, minerals, water, etc for bodily function, using fat stores alone does not sustain life.

    IMO 1200 is too little for someone of that size to start off with. I would start at 2500 minimum and then go from there. Keeping a food diary is a must, regardless of the amount of weight to lose. Its a way to keep accountable for our food choices.

    I started out one month ago at 161 and have lost 10 lbs since. I have lost weight before but because this time I am adding a lot of exercise my weight has not changed that much but I am losing inches every week. I started out with a BMR somewhere in the 1400+ range, and by starting out on Atkins induction and changing my carb intake around, it's working. For me personally, I can't sustain a very low calorie or carb diet when I'm exercising because I wind up getting very dizzy and nausous.

    Do not starve yourself, just make different choices. Stay away from processed sugars, bread, soda and fast food and you will see a big change. Trust me, you will be shocked when you see how much food you can eat when the choices are healthy and you are adding veggies and fruit.

    The best advice I can give you is to please seek assistance with your doctor before starting so that you can lose the weight in a healthy, sustainable way. I wish you the best of luck and please keep us updated.