What is saturated fat really?
ZiezieO
Posts: 228 Member
I know WHAT saturated fat is.
What I'm wondering is: how bad is it really? I know it's probably basic information, but I'm curious what your guy's take on it is since the entire web comes up with different diets and unhelpful information when you ask questions about any kind of fat.
I currently try to avoid it as much as possible - because to me it reads as plastic/margin/processed/toxic however, I haven't really stopped to think about it. Is there a "good" saturated fat - like there is for regular good fat in avocados?
I guess I am just looking for more information about what it really is? Should it be avoided? And what does it do to your body?
What I'm wondering is: how bad is it really? I know it's probably basic information, but I'm curious what your guy's take on it is since the entire web comes up with different diets and unhelpful information when you ask questions about any kind of fat.
I currently try to avoid it as much as possible - because to me it reads as plastic/margin/processed/toxic however, I haven't really stopped to think about it. Is there a "good" saturated fat - like there is for regular good fat in avocados?
I guess I am just looking for more information about what it really is? Should it be avoided? And what does it do to your body?
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Replies
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Nothing wrong with sat fat as long as intake isnt excessive.
Everything is in context
If you were an obese inactive person then saturated fat intake poses a real problem.
To a healthy active person a moderate saturated fat intake is fine.
Just avoid trans fats on the other hand as these are what deserve the bad rep
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Saturated fat is essential for cell membranes.
I am highly skeptical of any studies or clinical trials involving food simply because it is impossible to make a randomized double blind controlled trial...they are literally all based on observation and associations usually aimed against saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal products in general.
The latest Bull *kitten* I am sure that will come out is that cooking food causes cardiovascular disease and that everyone should be raw vegans based on a bunch of poor observational data, statistical manipulation through association and data omission, financial incentive, etc.
Here's a good paradox: coconuts are full of "artery clogging saturated fat" but don't have any animal cholesterol, are plant based, and can be eaten raw.0 -
All fat sources, plant and animal have saturated fat in them. Saturated fat is seen as bad basically because it's been repeated over and over again for the last 35 years. Lately the consciousness of most people has changed, but it's still hard for most. There are no causation studies at all that show SF causes heart disease. The most derogatory statement is that it increases LDL cholesterol and elevated LDL causes heart disease, but this isn't true either, but it gets repeated enough that most people believe that to be true. Like everything, nothing in excess in the context of the diet is going to really be unhealthy.0
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For what its worth, the CDC recommends that you keep saturated fat intake to a max of 10% of calories: http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/saturatedfat.html
The American Heart Association recommends no more than 7%: http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/saturatedfat.html
Both organizations cite a link between dietary saturated fat and elevated blood cholesterol (leading to heart disease).
Then again, its seems like there are other studies that indicate that IF (and only if) your weight is healthy and you are active, then there is little to no impact on blood cholesterol of eating more saturated fat: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-2.html .
So it might be the case that your ability to eat more saturated fat without problems depends on other factors.0 -
The recommended 7% is an adjustment downward from the original recommendation in the RDA's revision in 1980 of 10%. Basically they believe more so today than 35 years ago that saturated fat cause heart disease, or, they can't figure out why obesity and heart disease have continued to up therefore they adjusted downward, looking for something different to happen. These recommendation are based on observational statistics where demographics that have the highest disease outcome have then been analyzed, but it's virtually impossible to actually implicate any isolated factor based on FFQ's and memory..... I/we could say they came up with these recommendations based on logical fallacies or a cum hoc ergo propter hoc if you like lol....Anyway if cholesterol caused heart disease then they'd be closer to the bulls eye, but we know cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, it just isn't that cut and dry..... a good story up until recently though but I suspect the saturated fat/cholesterol/heart disease hypothesis will manifest itself into a theory where other macronutrients may play a more important role regarding heart disease........For what its worth, the CDC recommends that you keep saturated fat intake to a max of 10% of calories: http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/saturatedfat.html
The American Heart Association recommends no more than 7%: http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/fat/saturatedfat.html
Both organizations cite a link between dietary saturated fat and elevated blood cholesterol (leading to heart disease).
Then again, its seems like there are other studies that indicate that IF (and only if) your weight is healthy and you are active, then there is little to no impact on blood cholesterol of eating more saturated fat: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-2.html .
So it might be the case that your ability to eat more saturated fat without problems depends on other factors.0 -
Saturated fat is essential for cell membranes.
I am highly skeptical of any studies or clinical trials involving food simply because it is impossible to make a randomized double blind controlled trial...they are literally all based on observation and associations usually aimed against saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal products in general.
^^^^ this
and the fact that high dietary cholesterol doesn't necessarily lead to high blood cholesterol and there are different types of cholesterol, some are associated with low cholesterol.... all the hating on egg yolks over the years turned out to be wrong and egg yolks are in fact full of the kind of cholesterol that's associated with low blood cholesterol.
But good point above re all these studies being long term studies that show an association..... correlation =/= causation. The standard american diet is associated with a lot of illness, but there are multiple factors which could be causing that PLUS lifestyle factors, in particular, lack of exercise. Everyone goes on about hunter-gatherers being lean and healthy, this spawned the paleo diet... yet hunter-gatherers do a ton of exercise that standard American diet people don't do. Like walking and/or running for miles a day. I'm inclined to think that exercise (or lack thereof) is a more important factor than any individual dietary factor, although the overall big picture with diet is important, in that it needs to provide the body with all the nutrients it needs without getting an excess of anything that can be harmful in excess.... foods like fat and carbs get demonised because too much of them (i.e. more than what the body's burning off in a day) can be harmful, yet vitamin A is toxic in excess to the point you can actually die from vitamin A toxicity. A lot of things are bad for you in excess, but that doesn't mean that a moderate amount is bad, in most cases a moderate amount is necessary for health.0 -
Saturated fat has been given a bad rep over the past few decades, and it really does not cause all the health problems people think it does. Saturated fats in moderated doses are necessary and healthy. It's not so much saturated fat that you should be concerned about, but trans fat. I try to eliminate all trans fats from my diet. Trans fat has been manipulated and processed, and isn't found naturally in any foods. Granted, I eat mostly Primal/Paleo so it's not hard to eliminate trans fats if you don't eat much processed food
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Just avoid trans fats on the other hand as these are what deserve the bad rep
Please elaborate. Genuinuely interested why. Thanks.0 -
As of November 2013 the FDA has put a tentative determination on partially hydrogenated oils. Basically that means the former GRAS (generally accepted as safe) status will change, if passed, to a status of not generally recognized as safe. If that happens it will be unlawful to sell partially hydrogenated oil either directly or as ingredient.Just avoid trans fats on the other hand as these are what deserve the bad rep
Please elaborate. Genuinuely interested why. Thanks.
The most accepted and repeated reason why they are considered bad is that they increase LDL and lower HDL which is seen as a two fold deleterious effect. High LDL and low HDL are linked to atherosclerosis and by linked I mean that that is the common accepted reason based on observational studies. That of course would mean that cholesterol causes heart disease, which hopefully today most people know this isn't the case. Similar to the common advice about saturated fat but because saturated fat increases HDL it isn't seen as bad as trans fats.
Reality is, other mechanisms are directly associated with heart disease with cholesterol caught holding the weapon so to speak. Besides the changes in lipids and lipoprotein, TFA's increase systemic inflammation, increase thrombogenesis mostly because of the inflammation and also effect endothelial function, basically screwing with our metabolic and signaling pathways which directly effects the function of nitric oxide which is a vascular homeostasis agent and by downregulating nitric oxide it increases inflammation and it's inflammation that basically leads us down the road to atherosclerosis and not cholesterol per se. Basically it's the proverbial ticking time bomb....lol0 -
Thanks for all of the intelligent responses!
It's incredible how some things just need to be broken down and myth busted!0 -
Basically they believe more so today than 35 years ago that saturated fat cause heart disease, or, they can't figure out why obesity and heart disease have continued to up therefore they adjusted downward, looking for something different to happen. These recommendation are based on observational statistics where demographics that have the highest disease outcome have then been analyzed, but it's virtually impossible to actually implicate any isolated factor based on FFQ's and memory..... I/we could say they came up with these recommendations based on logical fallacies or a cum hoc ergo propter hoc if you like lol....Anyway if cholesterol caused heart disease then they'd be closer to the bulls eye, but we know cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, it just isn't that cut and dry..... a good story up until recently though but I suspect the saturated fat/cholesterol/heart disease hypothesis will manifest itself into a theory where other macronutrients may play a more important role regarding heart disease........
My IMPRESSION (and I don't have a citation for this just now) is that they haven't yet figured out exactly what the detailed nature of the correlation/causality is between lots of satured fat, obesity, and heart disease is, but we know that there is one (inasmuch as overweight people who eat alot of saturated fat have a higher risk of heart disease) . So, I think you're right, there's more in play, whether its macronutrient balance or something else. Just carrying alot of extra body fat has alot of implications for many different metabolic functions, so I don't see why it should be surprising if the metabolism of saturated fats turned out to be one of them.
On the other hand, steak.....yum.0 -
I've always been under the impression it's about the ratio...But now I can't recall the source.
Something to the effect saturated going up and others going down screwed up some sort of balance.
And other such gobbledegook.0 -
Not having enough saturated fat is a bad thing. I suggest looking in to the connection between saturated fat and thyroid hormones.0 -
Hey I recognize that......that's a monounsaturated fatty acid chain......I'll look into that association, I remember reading it but thyroid was never big on my radar......testosterone on the other hand.
Not having enough saturated fat is a bad thing. I suggest looking in to the connection between saturated fat and thyroid hormones.0 -
Hey I recognize that......that's a monounsaturated fatty acid chain......I'll look into that association, I remember reading it but thyroid was never big on my radar......testosterone on the other hand.
Not having enough saturated fat is a bad thing. I suggest looking in to the connection between saturated fat and thyroid hormones.
Yeah we all have a bit of information bias towards issues that affect us personally. I have thyroid disease so I'm especially keyed in on issues that effect the thyroid.
Coconut oil has been long recommended for thyroid patients, b/c of coconut magic. Turns out the magic is largely related to it being a saturated fat, and other saturated fats are beneficial. There's current research going on if the AHA's low saturated fat diet recommendations over the last 30 years have contributed to the rise of thyroid dysfunction, but I don't think the causation link has been established yet at this point. But, it is interesting and there is a connection.0 -
I currently try to avoid it as much as possible - because to me it reads as plastic/margin/processed/toxic however, I haven't really stopped to think about it. Is there a "good" saturated fat - like there is for regular good fat in avocados?
Seems like you're a little confused about what saturated fat is actually. The plastic/margarine/processed/toxic fats you are thinking of are TRANS FAT, not saturated fat. Trans fat is the partially hydrogenated fat that is in margarine, etc.
Also, what do you mean by "regular good fat in avocados"? There is no "regular" fat. There are different kinds of fats. The kind in avocados is mainly monounsaturated. Saturated fats are found in larger quantities in meat and dairy and are as natural as the kind found in avocados.0 -
Basically they believe more so today than 35 years ago that saturated fat cause heart disease, or, they can't figure out why obesity and heart disease have continued to up therefore they adjusted downward, looking for something different to happen. These recommendation are based on observational statistics where demographics that have the highest disease outcome have then been analyzed, but it's virtually impossible to actually implicate any isolated factor based on FFQ's and memory..... I/we could say they came up with these recommendations based on logical fallacies or a cum hoc ergo propter hoc if you like lol....Anyway if cholesterol caused heart disease then they'd be closer to the bulls eye, but we know cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, it just isn't that cut and dry..... a good story up until recently though but I suspect the saturated fat/cholesterol/heart disease hypothesis will manifest itself into a theory where other macronutrients may play a more important role regarding heart disease........
My IMPRESSION (and I don't have a citation for this just now) is that they haven't yet figured out exactly what the detailed nature of the correlation/causality is between lots of satured fat, obesity, and heart disease is, but we know that there is one (inasmuch as overweight people who eat alot of saturated fat have a higher risk of heart disease) . So, I think you're right, there's more in play, whether its macronutrient balance or something else. Just carrying alot of extra body fat has alot of implications for many different metabolic functions, so I don't see why it should be surprising if the metabolism of saturated fats turned out to be one of them.
On the other hand, steak.....yum.
My Dr has put me back on high fat, moderate protein / carb way of eating to equalize my hormones. It is the only way I can lose any weight at all because of hormonal factors. The high fat (yes, a lot of saturated fat) normalizes my hormones and my body then loses weight.
Moderate, not low amounts of saturated fats are necessary for proper hormone functions.0 -
The ratio of HDL and LDL is more predictive of CVD than total cholesterol. The reason for that is most people who actually have cardiac events have lipid panels that look very similar and where HDL is generally considered below the normal threshold, in other words their HDL is in the toilet. An even better predictor is the association of TG's (triglycerides) and low HDL which generally will also show an association for what is referred to as pattern B for LDL lipoproteins and generally have elevated an inflammatory marker called CRP (C-reactive Protein) it's basically this cluster that is the gold standard for the prevalence of ruptures in arterial walls. Saturated fats association is with the lifestyle that this cluster represents. On it's own saturated fat generally will increase HDL and when replacing carbohydrates for fat and saturated fat it will also influence the liver to reduce the delivery of pattern B particles with pattern A, which are larger and more buoyant, which is considered less atherogenic. Well, at least that's my interpretation of the research, and many of the researchers in this field.I've always been under the impression it's about the ratio...But now I can't recall the source.
Something to the effect saturated going up and others going down screwed up some sort of balance.
And other such gobbledegook.0 -
True. context and dosage is paramount. You also have to keep in mind that all and I mean all research where saturated fat has been associated with heart disease have never distinguished the difference between trans fats and saturated fat.....trans fats have always been considered a saturated fat for study purposes and the amount of trans fats in the diet until recently from the 50's on would probably choke a horse, not to mention that again that association was compounded by using the most unhealthy percentile of the SAD diet......I think if we looked at double or triple blind studies and remove those confounders we would see a different association for sure, just throwing this out there.Basically they believe more so today than 35 years ago that saturated fat cause heart disease, or, they can't figure out why obesity and heart disease have continued to up therefore they adjusted downward, looking for something different to happen. These recommendation are based on observational statistics where demographics that have the highest disease outcome have then been analyzed, but it's virtually impossible to actually implicate any isolated factor based on FFQ's and memory..... I/we could say they came up with these recommendations based on logical fallacies or a cum hoc ergo propter hoc if you like lol....Anyway if cholesterol caused heart disease then they'd be closer to the bulls eye, but we know cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease, it just isn't that cut and dry..... a good story up until recently though but I suspect the saturated fat/cholesterol/heart disease hypothesis will manifest itself into a theory where other macronutrients may play a more important role regarding heart disease........
My IMPRESSION (and I don't have a citation for this just now) is that they haven't yet figured out exactly what the detailed nature of the correlation/causality is between lots of satured fat, obesity, and heart disease is, but we know that there is one (inasmuch as overweight people who eat alot of saturated fat have a higher risk of heart disease) . So, I think you're right, there's more in play, whether its macronutrient balance or something else. Just carrying alot of extra body fat has alot of implications for many different metabolic functions, so I don't see why it should be surprising if the metabolism of saturated fats turned out to be one of them.
On the other hand, steak.....yum.0 -
I currently try to avoid it as much as possible - because to me it reads as plastic/margin/processed/toxic
I think you're confusing a saturated fat with trans-fats (partially hydrogenated oils). The later should be avoided...saturated fats are fine so long as they are not in excess...like you're not eating a stick of butter on your ribeye steak and washing that down with a gallon of heavy cream and full fat ice cream for desert. Saturated fats are naturally occurring fats in meats, dairy, eggs, butter, coconut oil, etc. Even those foods like nuts and avocados that are high in monounsaturated fats (which you should be getting plenty of) have saturated fats in them.
I would also add that moderate intake of saturated fat is actually pretty necessary if you are an active person...especially for guys and testosterone production. I think relatively sedentary folks have greater health risks from saturated fats than active individuals.0 -
Funny, there's equal amounts of saturated fat in avocados as there is in pork tenderloin on a gram for gram basis. Even though as you say, is a great monounsaturated source of fat.
I currently try to avoid it as much as possible - because to me it reads as plastic/margin/processed/toxic however, I haven't really stopped to think about it. Is there a "good" saturated fat - like there is for regular good fat in avocados?
Seems like you're a little confused about what saturated fat is actually. The plastic/margarine/processed/toxic fats you are thinking of are TRANS FAT, not saturated fat. Trans fat is the partially hydrogenated fat that is in margarine, etc.
Also, what do you mean by "regular good fat in avocados"? There is no "regular" fat. There are different kinds of fats. The kind in avocados is mainly monounsaturated. Saturated fats are found in larger quantities in meat and dairy and are as natural as the kind found in avocados.0 -
Strictly speaking, a trans fatty acid IS an UNsaturated fatty acid. However, it has a different shape to the "good" ones, which are actually cis-UNsaturated fatty acids.
trans-UNsaturated fatty acid = straight
cis-UNsaturated fatty acid = crooked
To make a trans-fat, hydrogen is added to a cis-fat, reducing the double bonds (the "unsaturation") to single bonds (and the chain is now "saturated" with hydrogens - it has as many as it can hold). Complete hydrogenation results in saturated fats. Partial hydrogenation results in some of the double bonds being reconfigured from cis to trans. The actual amount of hydrogenation that occurs will change the melting temperature of the fat and can be controlled to produce spreadable margarine etc.
Trace amounts of trans-fats do occur naturally (in animal sources), therefore it is very hard to remove them completely from our diets. But the partially hydrogenated fats used in the food industry provide no nutritional benefit and may (see caveats in other posts) have deleterious effects, so should probably be avoided.
Edit for image size + 'cos I made a very stupid mistake!0 -
Trans fats do exist in the fat and milk of ruminants, but at much lower levels than is seen in partially hydrogenated plant fats.Saturated fat has been given a bad rep over the past few decades, and it really does not cause all the health problems people think it does. Saturated fats in moderated doses are necessary and healthy. It's not so much saturated fat that you should be concerned about, but trans fat. I try to eliminate all trans fats from my diet. Trans fat has been manipulated and processed, and isn't found naturally in any foods. Granted, I eat mostly Primal/Paleo so it's not hard to eliminate trans fats if you don't eat much processed food0 -
I believe the bottom fatty acid chain shown is not saturated but a cis configuration of an unsaturared fatty acid and the above example is what happens after it's partially hydrogenated, I believe.Strictly speaking, a trans fatty acid IS a saturated fatty acid. However, it has a different shape to the "good" ones, which are actually cis-saturated fatty acids.
trans-saturated fatty acid = straight
cis-saturated fatty acid = crooked
To make a trans-fat, hydrogen is added to a cis-fat, reducing the double bonds (the "unsaturation") to single bonds (and the chain is now "saturated" with hydrogens - it has as many as it can hold). Complete hydrogenation results in saturated fats. Partial hydrogenation results in some of the double bonds being reconfigured from cis to trans. The actual amount of hydrogenation that occurs will change the melting temperature of the fat and can be controlled to produce spreadable margarine etc.
Trace amounts of trans-fats do occur naturally (in animal sources), therefore it is very hard to remove them completely from our diets. But the partially hydrogenated fats used in the food industry provide no nutritional benefit and may (see caveats in other posts) have deleterious effects, so should probably be avoided.
Edit for image size
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Ooops! I missed out all the UN's from my post! Good catch! Going to see if I can edit it...0
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No problem, you had me second guessing myself for a minute, easy mistake to make.0
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My IMPRESSION (and I don't have a citation for this just now) is that they haven't yet figured out exactly what the detailed nature of the correlation/causality is between lots of satured fat, obesity, and heart disease is, but we know that there is one (inasmuch as overweight people who eat alot of saturated fat have a higher risk of heart disease) . So, I think you're right, there's more in play, whether its macronutrient balance or something else. Just carrying alot of extra body fat has alot of implications for many different metabolic functions, so I don't see why it should be surprising if the metabolism of saturated fats turned out to be one of them.
On the other hand, steak.....yum.
But, see, that's the problem with relying on correlative (epidemiological) studies. We don't know and can't know that there is any causality between lots of saturated fat, obesity, and heart disease even though it logically appears that there must be. Why? Because there are a ton of other confounding factors that aren't taken into account. They can't be - there are too many and some we undoubtedly aren't even aware of yet. Any one or combination of these confounding factors might be the actual causative factor\s with saturated fat and obesity only being 'guilty by association'.
The best these studies can do is let us formulate a hypothesis of the causal factors, and hopefully design an experiment to test the hypothesis. Hard to do in this case.0
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