Increasing caloric intake without much change
eliben44
Posts: 9 Member
Hello,
I'm a 6'0", 171lb male with an office job and now trying to bulk in parallel with weight lifting (~1.5 focused hours a week).
Over the past few months I've been counting calories meticulously and trying to find what intake makes me maintain and gain, but the results are... strange.
With 2,200 cal / day, I lost about 1.5 pounds during a month (this is difficult to track for such small changes, so my weight numbers are all 7-day-averages). Then I upped to 2,500 and the weight didn't change for a month. Great, I thought, here's my base and now I can start bulking.
Not so fast. Upping to 2,800 for a month caused only a 0.5 gain in the whole month - this number is so low it may very well be statistical noise. The problem is 2,800 is quite a lot, given what I eat (very few sweets & refined carbs, plenty of eggs, meat, dairy and vegetables, some whole grains). So the simple 3,500 cal/pound calculations break down here, since that should've given me a robust 3lb increase in this last month.
So what next, increase by another 300 cal? This is getting difficult, unless I start eating junk (in which case it becomes easy). Any suggestions for why it's so non-linear?
The funny thing about MFP is how wrong its calculator is. It currently thinks I'm overeating by 600 calories even at 2,800, telling me I'm going to gain tons, but nada.
Thanks in advance
I'm a 6'0", 171lb male with an office job and now trying to bulk in parallel with weight lifting (~1.5 focused hours a week).
Over the past few months I've been counting calories meticulously and trying to find what intake makes me maintain and gain, but the results are... strange.
With 2,200 cal / day, I lost about 1.5 pounds during a month (this is difficult to track for such small changes, so my weight numbers are all 7-day-averages). Then I upped to 2,500 and the weight didn't change for a month. Great, I thought, here's my base and now I can start bulking.
Not so fast. Upping to 2,800 for a month caused only a 0.5 gain in the whole month - this number is so low it may very well be statistical noise. The problem is 2,800 is quite a lot, given what I eat (very few sweets & refined carbs, plenty of eggs, meat, dairy and vegetables, some whole grains). So the simple 3,500 cal/pound calculations break down here, since that should've given me a robust 3lb increase in this last month.
So what next, increase by another 300 cal? This is getting difficult, unless I start eating junk (in which case it becomes easy). Any suggestions for why it's so non-linear?
The funny thing about MFP is how wrong its calculator is. It currently thinks I'm overeating by 600 calories even at 2,800, telling me I'm going to gain tons, but nada.
Thanks in advance
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Replies
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can you provide some info on what your routine consists of, days per week, compound lifts, circuits, cardio, etc?
sounds like your maintenance is more like in line with 2500 to 2800 so maybe 3100 would put you on path for 1pd per week gain..
If you add in one serving of talenti gelato per day this would give you an extra 230 calories per day ....I am sure you can find some room for ice cream every day...!0 -
I've had the same issue, and I've seen it in others as well. It feels like you have a maintenance window, and you have to go above the upper limit before you start gaining.
Ice cream, the answer is always ice cream. Except when it's bacon. Or cookies. At that calorie level, you have room to include some "junk" food while still meeting your nutritional targets.0 -
My boyfriend is 6'1. When he started, he was 172 pounds. In two weeks, he is up to 180. He is eating 3600 calories a day. My suggestion to you is carbs. and no cardio. Lift heavier weights for less reps.
Eat lots of pasta, rice. And space out your meals so you don't feel lazy and full all the time. try to go over your caloric intake. Also, eating late at night is okay for you.0 -
can you provide some info on what your routine consists of, days per week, compound lifts, circuits, cardio, etc?
Sure. 3 days per week - one day chest + biceps, one day triceps + shoudlers, one day back + legs. In addition, I have 2 hours of martial arts per week (mostly cardio, to a varying degree).0 -
Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
Decided to up it to gain 1 pound per week and started seeing more consistent increases but still had weeks with no weight gain. At least I knew I was closer to being in a surplus most of the time but its like my body was resisting gaining any weight.
The last bulk I just kind of gave up on the lean bulk idea and was much more relaxed with calories. Huge difference in strength and size gains. Definitely gained some fat but could tell I was gaining muscle underneath. For the first time it was fast enough to actually notice.0 -
can you provide some info on what your routine consists of, days per week, compound lifts, circuits, cardio, etc?
Sure. 3 days per week - one day chest + biceps, one day triceps + shoudlers, one day back + legs. In addition, I have 2 hours of martial arts per week (mostly cardio, to a varying degree).
it sounds like the two hours of martial arts is probably getting your burns up pretty high which is why no gain at 2800 ...that is just my random observation ..
I would say add in a serving of ice cream a day to get to around 3100 and see what happens...
Only other thing I would say is that you should have one day dedicated to legs...so something like Monday - chest & arms; Wens - Legs; Friday - back and shoulders ...you really want to have at least one dedicated session to legs...you might benefit from a upper lower split..Monday - upper; Tuesday lower; wens - off/martial arts/whatever; thurs - upper; Friday - lower...0 -
This sounds like me right now...Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
I didn't have nearly this much fluctuation while losing weight. I was went down anywhere from 2.2 to 0.2 lbs per week while losing, but it was always consistent. Weight gain has been all over the place and fluctuating like crazy.0 -
This sounds like me right now...Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
I didn't have nearly this much fluctuation while losing weight. I was went down anywhere from 2.2 to 0.2 lbs per week while losing, but it was always consistent. Weight gain has been all over the place and fluctuating like crazy.
Exactly.0 -
I am in the same weight range as you. I just finished my 2nd bulk going from 170 to 186 lbs. over 20 weeks. I ate 3,000 cals up to 180 lbs. and then moved to 3,200-3,300 cals to get to mid-180's. My maintenance is around 2,500-2,600 cals lifting 3-4 days per week.0
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remember weight gain and loss isn't linear.
If you are going for a shorter time frame- get aggressive with the calories- going for a lean- no fat gain is pointless if you are keeping to a 1.5-2 month bulk.
If you aren't seeing changes over the course of a few weeks- bump the calories. EAT ALL THE THINGS!!!
and lift more.0 -
It's honestly a lot of trial and error. I give it 2-4 weeks or so. If there's no real change, I increase by 100 calories and wait at least another 1.5-2 weeks before even trying to draw a conclusion. I'm in one of those situations right now. I look and feel like I'm gaining muscle, but the scale is just fluctuating up and down.
Remember that since you've been eating below maintenance for a while, there are other things in your body that are going to utilize the extra food initially. It's not all going to go to muscle gains right away. Blood cell formation, bone formation, organ maintenance, etc. all take calories. I feel like some of these things can take months to get up to speed.
I went through the same thing, and am still trying to find the optimal surplus. I'm up to 500 over maintenance now, as of a few days ago.
Use MFP to track, and log your exercise burns.0 -
I've had the same issue, and I've seen it in others as well. It feels like you have a maintenance window, and you have to go above the upper limit before you start gaining.
The other issue is that people severely underestimate the calories burned while strength training.
Trying to bulk makes it abundantly clear that strength training burns A LOT more than the pitiful 100-200 cal/hr most people seem to think it does.
Most people will increase the amount of strength training they do when bulking, which only magnifies the problem.
For a quick smell test, unless you're tiny, most males won't gain on anything less than 3K cals/day gross intake, even many women need that much. Bigger guys need to push closer to the 4K cals/day gross intake area to actually gain.0 -
Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
Decided to up it to gain 1 pound per week and started seeing more consistent increases but still had weeks with no weight gain. At least I knew I was closer to being in a surplus most of the time but its like my body was resisting gaining any weight.
The last bulk I just kind of gave up on the lean bulk idea and was much more relaxed with calories. Huge difference in strength and size gains. Definitely gained some fat but could tell I was gaining muscle underneath. For the first time it was fast enough to actually notice.
More people need to steer beginners away from this lean bulking idea. Bulking is hard. Its an emotional roller coaster and half the time you have no idea what the heck your body is up to. Lean bulking can be made to work with experience and meticulous tracking. Bulking noobs would be expected to seriously struggle with it.
Moving the gain rate up from uber lean bulking to a moderate rate, not going all hog wild, is more than enough to bypass all the questions and issues and at least make it so you are successful at gaining. The fat gain really isn't all that bad at all. Once you experience it you find it is nothing to fear.0 -
This sounds like me right now...Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
I didn't have nearly this much fluctuation while losing weight. I was went down anywhere from 2.2 to 0.2 lbs per week while losing, but it was always consistent. Weight gain has been all over the place and fluctuating like crazy.
My body goes through this periodically, I've experienced it gaining, losing, and at maintenance, but usually when gaining. Though it usually only lasts a few weeks before it gets back to holding my weight more steady.
I used to think it was just a byproduct of being lean, but newer personal data doesn't support that. I really can't find any single trigger or reason it might be occurring. Its just one of those mysteries.
But its good to be aware of the phenomenon and know that its perfectly normal.0 -
Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
Decided to up it to gain 1 pound per week and started seeing more consistent increases but still had weeks with no weight gain. At least I knew I was closer to being in a surplus most of the time but its like my body was resisting gaining any weight.
The last bulk I just kind of gave up on the lean bulk idea and was much more relaxed with calories. Huge difference in strength and size gains. Definitely gained some fat but could tell I was gaining muscle underneath. For the first time it was fast enough to actually notice.
More people need to steer beginners away from this lean bulking idea. Bulking is hard. Its an emotional roller coaster and half the time you have no idea what the heck your body is up to. Lean bulking can be made to work with experience and meticulous tracking. Bulking noobs would be expected to seriously struggle with it.
Moving the gain rate up from uber lean bulking to a moderate rate, not going all hog wild, is more than enough to bypass all the questions and issues and at least make it so you are successful at gaining. The fat gain really isn't all that bad at all. Once you experience it you find it is nothing to fear.
I agree. Unfortunately it was something I just had to experience despite some people telling me I would just be "spinning my wheels".
Took me a long time to lose the weight so it was also a mental thing I had to get over. I dont think it was really time wasted but it was not optimal as far as mew muscle growth.0 -
This sounds like me right now...Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
I didn't have nearly this much fluctuation while losing weight. I was went down anywhere from 2.2 to 0.2 lbs per week while losing, but it was always consistent. Weight gain has been all over the place and fluctuating like crazy.
My body goes through this periodically, I've experienced it gaining, losing, and at maintenance, but usually when gaining. Though it usually only lasts a few weeks before it gets back to holding my weight more steady.
I used to think it was just a byproduct of being lean, but newer personal data doesn't support that. I really can't find any single trigger or reason it might be occurring. Its just one of those mysteries.
But its good to be aware of the phenomenon and know that its perfectly normal.
Could be there is something to the set-point theory. I admit I know nothing about it but have seen it mentioned before.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2253845
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/9/1875S.short0 -
This sounds like me right now...Sounds like my first bulk. I kept trying this "lean" bulk idea. Like I was somehow going to gain as little fat as possible. Tried to shoot for a .5 pound per week gain.
Daily fluctuations were up to 5 pounds so at the end of the month I had no idea if I was actually gaining weight or not. Very frustrating. Some weeks weight would be up and then the next week weight would drop again.
I didn't have nearly this much fluctuation while losing weight. I was went down anywhere from 2.2 to 0.2 lbs per week while losing, but it was always consistent. Weight gain has been all over the place and fluctuating like crazy.
My body goes through this periodically, I've experienced it gaining, losing, and at maintenance, but usually when gaining. Though it usually only lasts a few weeks before it gets back to holding my weight more steady.
I used to think it was just a byproduct of being lean, but newer personal data doesn't support that. I really can't find any single trigger or reason it might be occurring. Its just one of those mysteries.
But its good to be aware of the phenomenon and know that its perfectly normal.
Could be there is something to the set-point theory. I admit I know nothing about it but have seen it mentioned before.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2253845
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/9/1875S.short
If that's true, then consciously trying to reduce the NEAT as it ramps up with surplus--via relaxation/meditation is probably a valid strategy to reduce energy waste in the early days of a bulk.0 -
I was a little over 180 and put 20 pounds on in a few months. My advice is don't up your caloric intake by a few hundred... aim for 4000. It seems like a lot but it as it was said earlier , bulking is difficult. You wanna get big, you gotta eat big and you gotta lift heavy. I hover a little over 200 and Im pretty lean and am finding it difficult to put weight on now so I gotta up my calorie past 4000 so I can relate to how hard it is. Just keep eating.. Don't be afraid to pack in those calories because with lifting and traing martial arts youre burning a lot.0
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