Squatting With My Back

darreneatschicken
darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hey guys,

One thing I've noticed recently, is that when I barbell squat, I feel I am using my lower back to push the weight back up. I also feel my thighs working as well, but I feel that my back is doing 70% of the work. Is this alright? Also, I feel that when I am using heavy weight (195 lb is my heaviest at the moment), I cannot pin my shoulders back during the exercise.
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Replies

  • NonieYaBidness
    NonieYaBidness Posts: 6 Member
    Could it be that you have the bar a little too high? If you hold it at the top of your shoulders, then you may end up stressing your back, especially if you are trying to do a squat keeping shins upright. If you lower the barbell so it's behind your deltoids, then you may find it easier to keep your shoulders' back. Also keeping the upper back tight as you do the squat helps. Also until you master proper form where it doesn't hurt, probably try not to go too low down. Doing so may make you loose the natural arch of your back so you either over extend when coming up and round your back when you go too low.

    Also, the way you breathe makes a difference. Some people think you should pull your abs in, but this video tells you how to help stabilize your core by proper breathing: http://californiastrength.com/videos/viewvideo/301/cal-strength-exercises/how-to-breathe-properly-during-squats
  • Rayman79
    Rayman79 Posts: 2,009 Member
    If you are pushing with your lower back it is usually because the weight is too heavy and your core is weak compared to the primary movers for the exercise (Quads, Hams & Glutes), this is particularly true if you are leaning over and doing more of a 'good morning' type movement to force the bar up.

    The other problem is not getting 'tight' enough and holding it throughout the movement. Try setting your hands on the bar, and pulling your shoulders back as you step into position under the bar. Your whole body should be rigid throughout the movement (save for maybe a slight loss of tension at the top of the movement).

    Out of curiosity, are you using a padded roll on the bar? I think this can really effect how the bar sits on the shelf of your back and how tight you can get your shoulders.
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    no padded roll

    so you guys think I should deload and also lower the bar so it sits lower from my neck right?

    its just that I find that when I use my shoulder blades to support the bar, it feels like it is going to fall off. how do I have the bar low, but at the same time, keep it from falling off?

    maybe I should restart to just the empty bar ?
  • meshashesha2012
    meshashesha2012 Posts: 8,329 Member
    you might also be leaning a bit to far and doing something like a good morning squat.

    can you record yourself squatting and upload?
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    I know when I am leaning a bit too far forward, I can feel it. So it is a pretty easy problem to fix: just push the bar straight up. However, I still feel that my back is doing the majority of the work.
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  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    I do lower body stretching 3-4 times a week:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN3sHkni1gI
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  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    parallel
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    I feel that I am not keeping my entire body tight throughout the entire motion, especially my lower back, and I think this is the main problem, along with the fact that my shoulder blades aren't pinched back either?
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    I feel that I am not keeping my entire body tight throughout the entire motion, especially my lower back, and I think this is the main problem, along with the fact that my shoulder blades aren't pinched back either?

    It's because you're not getting the correct tightness in the upper back more than likely. You need to work on keeping tightness in the upper back and keeping the chest up, then the lower back stuff will follow.

    You might want to think about how you address the bar. Go through what you need to do before you get under there. Get the tightness right and then unrack with conviction. Make a routine out of it so that you always do the right things, in the right order and get your mind right.
  • steve0820
    steve0820 Posts: 510 Member
    Many people are too tight. Do lots of stretching. Not before you squat, but outside of that. You need to work on your flexibility. Once you get loose, mainly in the calves, hams, hips and lower back, then practice using light weight. You should push up through your heels, through your hips, and up, with back mostly straight. It doesn't have to be straight up and down, but it's not a back movement. I see a lot of people do that and I mostly think it's due to not being flexible. The squat is a complicated move that requires strength and lots of flexibility. Many people underestimate the flexibility part of the equation. I also see a lot of people load on the plates. It's a joke. You can get a really good workout with minimal weight. Get the form down first. Don't worry about the weight. And, please don't wear running shoes while you squat. They push you forward. You want flat shoes, like converse, or just barefoot.

    Good advice here^^^

    A stretch that I found helps me is bodyweight squat below parallel and sit in the hole for a bit, and do a few sets in that sit.

    Adjusting your stance my help as well, check your knees, make sure they are not caving inward.
  • n3ver3nder
    n3ver3nder Posts: 155 Member
    Post a video. Without knowing what your technique looks liek, we can only guess based on your description, and often what we 'feel' happening in a lift may not be as accurate as what is really happening when viewed objectively.

    However, I wouldn't be surprised if your hips were coming up too fast and you were letting your chest drop.
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    UPDATE:

    Went to the gym today, told the trainer there about my problem (using my back to lift the weight), and had her watch/critique my form.

    This is what I was doing wrong:

    - she described I had something called "butt weight"
    - pretty much, the movement of my pelvis was wrong

    She showed me herself what I was doing, and then showed me what I should be doing. But I still didn't get it. So she told me to go up to a table, and face away from it. She then had me squat down until I hit the table. This really got me really thinking about what I should be doing: SIT DOWN, NOT BACK!

    My back was so arched during the movement because I was focusing on pushing my *kitten* back during the squat. This is because people describe a squat as sitting back, but they should describe it as sitting down!

    So I got the trainer to look at me again, and this time, I focused just on going straight down. She said that I looked waaay better, and that I was a fast learner lol.

    Another thing I was doing wrong:

    - having my feet too far spread apart (more than shoulder-width apart)
    - having my feet splayed out towards the side (this causes me to push up using the sides of my foot, rather than the heel)

    To fix this, the trainer got me to stand hip-width apart (not shoulder-width)?

    She also got me to position my feet forward, instead of being splayed out the side.

    Making this change to my foot stance has made me been able to push up using my heels! I always felt that I was pushing from the sides of my feet, but now I know why!

    What I disagree with the trainer about:

    She had me adopt a wide grip on the bar, rather than a narrow grip. This felt unnatural, and weird, as my arms were splayed out. I find with a narrow grip, it feels more comfortable because my arm is vertical to the ground. Mehdi from Stronglifts also says a narrow grip is the way to go. What do you guys think?
  • navyrigger46
    navyrigger46 Posts: 1,301 Member
    De-load. You can also add front squats to your routine. Front squats will force you to have good form by virtue of the fact that the bar isn't pinned to your back. If you have bad form with front squats you're literally going to fall on your face. It'll develop your stabilizers which in turn translates to proper form on back squats.

    Rigger
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    De-load. You can also add front squats to your routine. Front squats will force you to have good form by virtue of the fact that the bar isn't pinned to your back. If you have bad form with front squats you're literally going to fall on your face. It'll develop your stabilizers which in turn translates to proper form on back squats.

    Rigger

    I'm going to practice normal squatting just with the empty barbell for the next couple of weeks probably. Not down to start front squatting, thats just another exercise to learn.
  • 0OneTwo3
    0OneTwo3 Posts: 149 Member
    do the front squats! don't be reluctant to "learn" them since that will fix your problem. you are sitting back to much and loosing tension in your back which is not possible with front squats. also hip mobility-work and stretching.

    also no heavy squats until you can perform them correctly. heaving 200# sit on your spine is REALLY dangerous.
  • skeo
    skeo Posts: 471 Member
    I agree, my back squats aren't good, I tend to lean forward into the said good morning position, so I've been working on front squats, and those do force you into correct form.
  • creativerick
    creativerick Posts: 270 Member
    I agree, my back squats aren't good, I tend to lean forward into the said good morning position, so I've been working on front squats, and those do force you into correct form.

    This...

    Do front squats and overhead squats... They will help fix your form! haha
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    To the OP:

    wide feet, sitting back to just below parallel is fine for a low bar squat

    narrower feet, sitting down to a depth anything up to ATG is fine for a high bar squat

    sounds like you were doing the former originally (but with problems keeping the upper back tight throughout the movement) and possibly trying to go too low (low bar squats taken too low usually result in butt-wink unless you've got some anatomical quirks) and this trainer is switching you onto high bar form.

    Going back to a light weight and reconstructing a consistent squat form is a smart move (although a bare bar will be tricky because it'll be too light for you and you'll probably struggle to get the right "feel" with it - perhaps try with 50% of your previous working weight?)

    I'd have to echo the guys above, too. A good front squat will strengthen your core and your upper back - two areas where you sound like you've got a weakness.

    Also, without any kind of video, these threads are always a guessing game. You might want to vid every session anyway for your own review even if you don't feel comfortable sharing the results with the rest of humanity!
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    Well, she told me to have the bar low as well.

    Maybe I will start trying to learn front squats too. I am really thinking about hiring a personal trainer just for around 5 sessions or so.

    I can use my mom's camera, and ask someone in the gym to record it for me, I'm not scared of being embarrassed lol... I just rather wish I could show your guy's statements to the trainer, and have him/her translate that onto me in real life
  • TheFitnessTutor
    TheFitnessTutor Posts: 356 Member
    You should post a video or continue to get a hodge podge of who knows what advice...as it pertains to you.
  • meshashesha2012
    meshashesha2012 Posts: 8,329 Member
    De-load. You can also add front squats to your routine. Front squats will force you to have good form by virtue of the fact that the bar isn't pinned to your back. If you have bad form with front squats you're literally going to fall on your face. It'll develop your stabilizers which in turn translates to proper form on back squats.

    Rigger

    front squat is a bit different than back squat. i find that the main difference (because of the location of the load) is that for my lower limbs and pelvic girdle at least, it's easier to squat down and keep my back more perpendicular to the floor then what i do with back squats. it's he difference between sitting down (also what you'd do during an overhead squat) vs sitting back and down

    better yet, here's a visual representation.
    500px-Squat_Bar_Placement.jpg

    front squat doesnt really look like a back squat
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    so you guys want me to post a video of what I was doing before? Or what I am doing after today?
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    and how do I add a video? sorry I am technologically retarded
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    and how do I add a video? sorry I am technologically retarded

    You could upload it to youtube and post a link here....
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    UPDATE

    Sorry guys... no video yet...

    Went to the gym today, had two trainers criticize me, and some random people as well. It's a good feeling because people mostly go to the gym to do their own thing and get out, but it was great how some people actually took the time to give me their thoughts when they saw that I was struggling. Anyways off to what I learned today:

    - when I squat, my knees go past my feet - I cannot even squat to parallel without this happening

    This is my MAJOR problem right now, and here are what people told me as advice:

    - do lots of hip flexor stretches - this is the ultimate solution I think, just like someone who posted on this thread said (one of the earlier posts)

    I've been doing the same lower body stretching routine for the past few weeks, so maybe its time to switch it up and focus mainly on the hip flexors

    - bend at your hips, not knees

    You have to balance this though. If you focus too much on bending at your hips and pushing out your *kitten*, your back will start to round as you descend (this is what happened to me before, and the trainer had to correct me). Nevertheless, you cannot only bend with your knees. I started doing this because of the "sit down, not back" thing. But now I realize, there has to be a happy medium between the two.

    - as you descend, focus on pushing your knees outwards

    - stance should be hip width apart (which is the EXACT same as shoulder-width apart - I actually just learned this today, when one of the trainers said that hip-width refers to the lower body, and shoulder-width applies to the upper body, but in reality, they are the same distance; same thing)

    - stance can be a bit more than hip-width/ shoulder-width apart as to allow for a less of a chance that your knees will go past your feet

    - feet can be splayed out to the sides a bit

    The male trainer told me this today, while the female trainer said that I shouldn't do this, as to focus more on pushing from my heels. I think I'm going to go with the former, and keep my feet splayed out a bit.

    Conclusion:

    I tried ALL these things. Still, my knees were going past my feet. Thus, I think this is the only solution: do hip flexor stretches.

    I asked the male trainer to show me such a stretch. He showed me this stretch where it looks like what it would look like at the bottom of a split squat. When you are in this position, you arch your body back, and you will get a nice stretch in the hip flexor (right or left side depending on which knee is up). I then did this stretch. He then told me that I look pretty flexible already, and it might be the fact that I just don't have proper body coordination to do the squat (I thought this was ridiculous)? He told me that I should just switch to doing split squats because it is way better and I will probably be able to pick it up right away. I replied that that sounds really tempting, but that if I did, then I would be ignoring the problem, and I couldn't do that: I would feel guilty; it is like the same as quitting a project because it is "too hard".

    All in all, it was refreshing having people actually give me their thoughts. One guy even said: "I was just like you, I practised squatting at home a lot, watched a lot of youtube videos, and once I did it, I just knew: it felt perfect.

    Therefore... I WILL LEARN THE SQUAT
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  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    Me:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDLHsinp8JU
  • darreneatschicken
    darreneatschicken Posts: 669 Member
    Critique my form please

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